Autocar Road Test The Prius 1.8 T Spirit

[fuel miser]

The article was more or less what I expected them to say of the new model, with one exception (may be a mistake). They stated that the hybrid system now only carries a 5 year/60,000 mile warranty. The gen 2 of course has an 8 year/100,000 mile warranty. The existing warranty is a good selling point for a four/five year old Prius with 60-70k on it, and will bolster it's used value quite a bit. If this reduced warranty is correct, I fear it's going to hit used values of the new model once they're over 50k, and a 60k plus Prius out of warranty is not going to be worth very much. Many company cars will do 60k in only three years. Like I say, maybe just a mistake, but can someone confirm the situation?

LINK..... http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTe...-Spirit/241339/

Edit:- Well I've spent a bit of time Googling this, and it appears to be correct. I can't find warranty details on the Toyota UK site, but I've seen warranty details for the new Prius in the USA (I assume they'll be the same). They have reduced the standard warranty from 3 years/60,000 down to 3 years 36,000, and the hybrid parts are down from 8 years/100,000 to 5 years/60,000. This hardly seems like progress to me, indeed, do Toyota have the confidence that they expect us, as the consumer, to have in the new Prius?

I predict that because of this warranty situation, there will be some bargain gen 3 models around in a few years time, they will not hold their value anything like as well as the gen 2 model.

Edit:- (2) I've found that Toyota had also reduced the warranty on the new Prius in Australia, but they have already reversed their decision and reinstated the 8 year/100,000 (160,00km) hybrid warranty to cover the new car over there. I wonder why that was then, did potential owners have some sort of protest? You guys who have just ordered the new Prius need to be talking to Toyota on this one!

[Fujisan]

Grabbed this from the Toyota UK "Build your own" Prius webpage (which I know isn't the best at the moment):

Warranty

Five Year Hybrid Powertrain warranty

Three year / 60,000 mile mechanical warranty

Three year unlimited mileage paint warranty

Twelve year unlimited mileage anti corrosion perforation warranty

Yes, it would be nice to have an 8 year warranty but I think in reality most private buyers will be happy enough with a 5 year warranty on the powertrain.

I don't know the in's and out's of what is exactly covered and what is not but it is still 2 years better than most manufacture warranties on powertrain equipment.

So I would be surprised if it makes a huge difference to used car prices.

I guess the reason the warranty length was reduced was because they what to take the car more mainstream, it is getting a more mainstream warranty which leads to a reduction in costs for Toyota. And after the results Toyota just posted and the hard times predicted ahead by them, reducing costs is now key.

Note : To the mods, if you wish to delete my earlier near identical thread on the Autocar road test, OK

[fuel miser]

It seems bizarre what Toyota have done. If I have this right, Toyota in Australia only ever had a five year/60,000 mile warranty on the Prius hybrid system. With the introduction of the new Prius, they have just upped the warranty to 8 year/100,000 miles (see link.... http://autoindustrie.blogspot.com/2009/07/...y-warranty.html ). So why have they reduced the warranty in the UK to 5 years/60,000?

Whilst there are very few reported problems with the hybrid part of the Prius, that doesn't mean that if you are unlucky, you could have a substantial repair bill. My own Prius is now three years old and covered 66,000 miles, but I am still happy to run it for at least another year or two as I am covered by that warranty. If it didn't have that warranty, then I wouldn't have the car now, and neither would I have bought it in the first place with 50,000 miles on it.

Surely this is related to the post from Stompe - "Please join me in my rant to Toyota" a few days ago, as to how we suffer having to pay top prices for their cars, we don't get equipment available in other markets, and now the Prius hybrid warranty has just been substantially eroded too.

[Fujisan]

It seems bizarre what Toyota have done. If I have this right, Toyota in Australia only ever had a five year/60,000 mile warranty on the Prius hybrid system. With the introduction of the new Prius, they have just upped the warranty to 8 year/100,000 miles (see link.... http://autoindustrie.blogspot.com/2009/07/...y-warranty.html ). So why have they reduced the warranty in the UK to 5 years/60,000?

The article would seem to suggest that to a greater or lesser extent the Austrailian public are very conservative and suspicious of change and new technology and to calm their fears (ie hold their hand) and encourage more sales, the warranty in Austrailia has been extented.

From this you could say that the people in the UK, US and Japan are now more happy to accept new idea's and don't need their hands held quite so much.

Again, yes 8 years would be nice but I look at this way even with only 5 years that is two years more than most cars get!

Whilst there are very few reported problems with the hybrid part of the Prius, that doesn't mean that if you are unlucky, you could have a substantial repair bill.

You should see the thread on Dual Mass Flywheels it you are talking big bills after 50 or 60,000 miles! :(

My own Prius is now three years old and covered 66,000 miles, but I am still happy to run it for at least another year or two as I am covered by that warranty. If it didn't have that warranty, then I wouldn't have the car now, and neither would I have bought it in the first place with 50,000 miles on it.

Surely this is related to the post from Stompe - "Please join me in my rant to Toyota" a few days ago, as to how we suffer having to pay top prices for their cars, we don't get equipment available in other markets, and now the Prius hybrid warranty has just been substantially eroded too.

Can't argue with you there, it is very disappointing that a car of this price is missing Auto dipping mirror and electric folding door mirrors. Adaptive cruise control, Solar panel roof and park assist honestly I can live with out but the fact that we seem to missing the even the option of LED headlights is very poor. :(

[timberwolf]

The Gen II's 8 years/100K miles was a strong factor in my buying decision.

My memory isn't good so these figures may be a little off, I think the Prius had sold about 1 million units worldwide by last year and that accounts for just 1-2% of all cars sold.

So there aren't a lot of hybrid cars around, without the long hybrid warranty, the residuals on the car are not going to be as high, because people are going to be concerned about the risk of high repair bills. You can't at the moment go to any one else but Toyota to fix a Prius of any age - there aren't the experienced independent garages or parts to fix hybrids and hybrid parts are very expensive and every tale of woe that I've read has been for thousands.

[benw123]

Good point Timberwolf. If you look at AutoTrader, Prius values are heavily affected by mileage. While the cars are generally proven, I think most buyers are worried about inheriting some big hybrid bills later down the line - this almost certainly affects values.

[timberwolf]

I was (hopefully) expanding or rewording one of fuel miser's points. I worry about what this means and signals to us.

a) the Prius isn't as reliable as the previous 8 year warranty implied. i.e. it was costing Toyota too much money. After all if the Prius was so reliable it would be a no-brainer to continue offering the old warranty.

B) Or, the long warranty was encouraging owners to hang onto the Prius for longer than non-hybrid models. If this one is true, I think it is a risky strategy trying to force new car sales because of a).

c) Or, Dealers were making expensive mistakes or performing unnecessary work.

d) other?

[hertsnminds]

I still don't understand why the company that is supposed to have the best reliability record and sells the most cars does not have the same 5 and 7 year unlimited milage warranty that companies such as Kia, Hyundai and Fiat have on standard cars let alone a car with hybrid technology. Another thing that Toyota don't provide is 3 years of breakdown cover that all Mazda's come with.

I don't think a longer warranty period would make me change the car less often but it would certainly help to keep the used values higher than cars that were out of warranty.

[Fujisan]

I'll come back to the point that Toyota are keen to reduce costs in the present economic situation.

I would imagine that, if only on paper, you would have to set aside a certain sum of money to cover warranty claims for the lifetime of that warranty, even if your cars are 100% reliable.

Therefore if you can reduce the length of the warranty, you can reduce the amount of money you set aside, a saving in the account book's.

When the Gen 2 was introduced, it is my guess that Toyota could afford to offer a long warranty, to reassure buyers about venturing into new technology, because their estimated sales targets would have been small and therefore the total amount of money set aside for potential warranty claims would have been small in the overall scale of the Toyota operation.

Now that sales of the Gen 2 have blossomed, this wieght of set aside money has grown, so Toyota have taken the opportunity of the Gen 3 launch to reduce the burden of set aside cost slightly.

That is my reading of the situation anyway.

One final point, a long warranty doesn't always mean good resale values.

Example: Kia C'eed - nice little car, 7 year warranty, projected 3 year - 36,000 mile resale value only 36%. No more or less than other H'backs of the same size.

[hertsnminds]

One final point, a long warranty doesn't always mean good resale values.

Example: Kia C'eed - nice little car, 7 year warranty, projected 3 year - 36,000 mile resale value only 36%. No more or less than other H'backs of the same size.

But if you are in the market for a 3 year old hatch would you go for the car that has just run out of manufacturer warranty or the car that still has another 4 years of warranty on it?

[Fujisan]

But if you are in the market for a 3 year old hatch would you go for the car that has just run out of manufacturer warranty or the car that still has another 4 years of warranty on it?

It's a positive selling point true enough

But still the estimated resale value doesn't seem greatly influenced by it.

[fuel miser]

But if you are in the market for a 3 year old hatch would you go for the car that has just run out of manufacturer warranty or the car that still has another 4 years of warranty on it?

It's a positive selling point true enough

But still the estimated resale value doesn't seem greatly influenced by it.

I beg to differ on this one, Fujisan. Lets conjure up a little scenario here. Imagine we're now in September 2012 and you've set you're heart on a used Prius, with a budget of about £10k to spend. You do about 12k a year and you want something you know will be reliable to run for a couple of years. You happen to drive past a forecourt and see a couple on display, so you stop to have a look. One is a September 09 gen 3 T4 model (59 reg) with one company owner and covered 57,000 miles. The other one is a July 09 T4 model (09 reg) again one company owner and 62,000 miles on it. Knowing what you know now, which one are you going to put your money into?

The gen 3 model has just 3000 miles of warranty left on the hybrid system, that'll cover you until the end of the year and then you're on your own.

The gen 2 model, however, still has 38,000 miles or 5 years of warranty left on it. So you could buy the gen 2 model, put another 24,000 on it over 2 years, and when you come to sell, there's still 14,000 miles of warranty left, or three years if someone then buys it who only does 4650 miles a year!

I'm only speaking personally here, but I'll tell you this, I'd be happier paying £1500 more for the gen 2 model to have that peace of mind.

Once a gen 3 Prius is four or five years old, and you were unlucky enough to develop a major fault with the hybrid system, I suspect that it may well cost more than the car would actually be worth to get it repaired. As timberwolf observed, you are totally tied to Toyota to get a Prius repaired.

As for doing warranty comparisons with other manufacturers (once the car is over 3 years old), don't forget that you can buy extended warranties from various sources to cover conventional petrol or turbo-diesel cars. These will usually cover the major components of the car. You cannot, however, buy such a warranty to cover a hybrid car. It will be interesting to see if Toyota will offer extended hybrid cover for 8 years/100,000, and how much they might charge for it.

I really think Toyota have shot themselves in the foot over this one, and this will definitely hit values of the gen 3 Prius once they are up to 50,000 miles.

[timberwolf]

Deleted.

[Fujisan]

I beg to differ on this one, Fujisan. Lets conjure up a little scenario here. Imagine we're now in September 2012 and you've set you're heart on a used Prius, with a budget of about £10k to spend. You do about 12k a year and you want something you know will be reliable to run for a couple of years. You happen to drive past a forecourt and see a couple on display, so you stop to have a look. One is a September 09 gen 3 T4 model (59 reg) with one company owner and covered 57,000 miles. The other one is a July 09 T4 model (09 reg) again one company owner and 62,000 miles on it. Knowing what you know now, which one are you going to put your money into?

What colours are they?

Seriously, again I will say, yes an 8 year warranty would be very nice but the fact that the Gen3 only comes with a 5 year warranty, that might or might not affect future values is not going to stop me buying the car if I like it.

And that if will only be discovered on a test drive. :D

Anyway, each to their own.

[Aimhigh]

The warranty issue was raised at the launch event on Saturday.

The reasoning given by Toyota marketing was that the UK import division pays the factory for the warranty and this would have meant an unwelcome price levy on the new model.

They said they are bringing the warranty in line with Lexus hybrids (I cant comment on this), and they said they aren't a Korean brand who are trying to 'buy' market share.

The Synergy drive and inverter pack is now proven and has been extremely reliable (very very few problems) they said.

[Ogo]

I think that decission for Toyota Europe to reduce hybrid component warranty to 5 years / 60000 miles (100000 km) from 8 years / 100000 (160000 km) miles is bad.

It is bad due to a reason that most of the Europans still do not believe in the reliability of hybrids. They think they are complicated, unreliable and expensive to repair. Statistics show otherwise, but those are not important. Important is, what people think or feel. And current situation still is, that most of the people are still very sceptical on hybrids. And reducing warranty while some car companies like Kia are increasing them, is actually bad.

Ogo

[timberwolf]

The warranty issue was raised at the launch event on Saturday.

The reasoning given by Toyota marketing was that the UK import division pays the factory for the warranty and this would have meant an unwelcome price levy on the new model.

They said they are bringing the warranty in line with Lexus hybrids (I cant comment on this), and they said they aren't a Korean brand who are trying to 'buy' market share.

The Synergy drive and inverter pack is now proven and has been extremely reliable (very very few problems) they said.

Thanks for noting their response. I don't think it adds up though, I smell something fishy. If there were "very very few problems" then the cost of the warranty would be very low. If the Toyota factory, for some reason, are charging an inflated price then Toyota GB could cover the cost of the repairs themselves again because the cost would be very very low - unless they are BS. As an individual, if you are the unlucky one to suffer from a hybrid problem, it is going to be very very expensive, and all so that could Toyota GB could keep the price the same as the outgoing model (and I bet quietly hoping that most of their customers would not spot that the warranty had been reduced).

[blue verso 56]

The warranty issue was raised at the launch event on Saturday.

The reasoning given by Toyota marketing was that the UK import division pays the factory for the warranty and this would have meant an unwelcome price levy on the new model.

They said they are bringing the warranty in line with Lexus hybrids (I cant comment on this), and they said they aren't a Korean brand who are trying to 'buy' market share.

The Synergy drive and inverter pack is now proven and has been extremely reliable (very very few problems) they said.

Thanks for noting their response. I don't think it adds up though, I smell something fishy. If there were "very very few problems" then the cost of the warranty would be very low. If the Toyota factory, for some reason, are charging an inflated price then Toyota GB could cover the cost of the repairs themselves again because the cost would be very very low - unless they are BS. As an individual, if you are the unlucky one to suffer from a hybrid problem, it is going to be very very expensive, and all so that could Toyota GB could keep the price the same as the outgoing model (and I bet quietly hoping that most of their customers would not spot that the warranty had been reduced).

Just to add my opinion in the pot I was really very interested in the new Prius but the reduction in the length of the warranty has really put me off .

I just wonder as others have said will it have a affect on used values ??

I think Toyota have missed a trick here if they were determined to reduce the length of warranty to 5 years /60000 miles they could offer at the purchase of the new vehicle the option to extend the warranty on the hybrid system to 8years/100,000 miles for a set amount of money to reassure customers who were nervous about the new technology as I am sure its Toyota's aim is to pick up new customers from conventional motorists because by the reviews it has received they have at last made a Hybrid to compete with conventional motor

[wooski]

Just to add my opinion in the pot I was really very interested in the new Prius but the reduction in the length of the warranty has really put me off .

I just wonder as others have said will it have a affect on used values ??

I think Toyota have missed a trick here if they were determined to reduce the length of warranty to 5 years /60000 miles they could offer at the purchase of the new vehicle the option to extend the warranty on the hybrid system to 8years/100,000 miles for a set amount of money to reassure customers who were nervous about the new technology as I am sure its Toyota's aim is to pick up new customers from conventional motorists because by the reviews it has received they have at last made a Hybrid to compete with conventional motor

It's now the same as the Lexus hybrids, which also uses the same Hybrid Synergy Drive technology. As much as it doesn't concern me personally you can't escape the fact that it sends an unfortunate signal equalizing them at the lower of the 2's limit. From what I heard at MIRA, Toyota GB really fine tuned the UK specs to keep the prices the same as the Gen 2 cars, whilst also ensuring that no features of the Gen 2 car was lost. Hence the reason we miss out on LED lights, adaptive cruise etc. My personal view is that this technology is now proven. Toyota is pretty conservative, they stuck with NiMH batteries which attracted criticism but they did this because they knew the technology and that they would be reliable.

[SidAshers]

Has anyone else noticed that in California they give a 15 year warranty on the high voltage Battery, and elsewhere in the USA a 10 year warranty.

BUT they also seem to limit the top speed in EV mode to 25mph and maximum driving distance to 1 kilometre.

Here in the U.K. they say EV mode works up to 31mph and for a maximum distance of 2 kilometres.

So presumably they have tweaked the onboard computer to different standards for the US and UK markets.

It seems probable to me, that Toyota have taken a guess that more usage of EV mode will reduce Battery life. So it appears to me a good idea to leave that EV button well alone if you intend to keep your Prius beyond 5 years.

[timberwolf]

Has anyone else noticed that in California they give a 15 year warranty on the high voltage battery, and elsewhere in the USA a 10 year warranty.

BUT they also seem to limit the top speed in EV mode to 25mph and maximum driving distance to 1 kilometre.

Here in the U.K. they say EV mode works up to 31mph and for a maximum distance of 2 kilometres.

So presumably they have tweaked the onboard computer to different standards for the US and UK markets.

It seems probable to me, that Toyota have taken a guess that more usage of EV mode will reduce battery life. So it appears to me a good idea to leave that EV button well alone if you intend to keep your Prius beyond 5 years.

If I am remember correctly, the Hybrid ECU governs whether the Prius will go into EV mode, and it does it during normal driving without the driver ever using the EV button. The EV button can be thought of as a polite request by the driver to ask the Hybrid ECU can I have EV mode, and it will only be granted if various criteria are meet, such as sufficient State of Charge in the HV Battery.

[SilverT4]

Just out of interest as anyone here had any problems with the hybrid system on a gen2 (or even a gen1) car?

If so, what was the problem and was required to repair it?

My gen2 is Jan2004 model and has covered 80k miles, but has no hybrid problems.

[Jamboo 1]

The extended guarantee is only there to build people confidence. That is why in California they have such long warranties on the batteries. They want it to become "acceptable"

if you do the sums and decide to keep the car from new for 8-10 years, then you should have saved enough money in fuel alone to pay for any repairs out of warranty if Toyota didn't fix with goodwill after the 5 years are up.

I know I'm missing the point, but I'm thinking of getting the G3 and if it lasts 5 years I'll be a happy bunny!!!

[raelorance]

Your ideas are cool dude.Nice article.Great idea, the Toyota Prius. It’s an easy and very visible route to greenness: a futuristic-looking hybrid with a near-evangelical following among those who would demonstrate their environmental concern. Hollywood celebrities apparently love it.

It’s the closest thing to an anti-car car while still doing the things a car should do. Trouble is, the Prius that everyone knows doesn’t do those things as well as it might. For all its emissions-free stardom in the city,it’s no great eco-shakes on the motorway, where the 1.5-litre petrol engine struggles and fuel economy can be worse than a turbodiesel’s. It’s with these snags in mind that Toyota has launched Prius Version 3.0.

The shape is familiar but it’s actually an all-new car, with a more powerful 1.8-litre engine, more efficient electric propulsion and CO2 down from an official rating of 104g/km to just 89g/km