Did This Problem Ever Get Sorted ?

[rambler]

Well,i've had this issue from my engine since xmas now.

Getting a little fed up with it now TBH,...IF i accelerate slowly keep rev's blow 2000,i can build up speed no troubles..very gradually.

If i want to floor it with a warm'ish engine to get past a vehicle,i get hesitation and a couple of jolts from engine......

But it does keep going now,...i did have the EGR & VSV valves cleaned out .

I just worry that i'm going to lose power again and go into limp mode.

So after looking all over various forums about this issue,does'nt look as though toyota have a cure for it.

Apart from giving it to my local inde,and them putting multiple diagnostics all over my engine......i've really had enough of it.

Could it be time for a change of vehicle ??.....do like the Rav,but this worry is too much. :(

[jedi134]

Could it be those SVC valves the fuel suction ones? I belive there are 2 of them. does sound like it from other posts

or have you have these changed?

[rambler]

Could it be those SVC valves the fuel suction ones? I belive there are 2 of them. does sound like it from other posts

or have you have these changed?

Hi Jedi

Yes....have had all these valves changed now.......SCV's changed by toyota ( got the old one's),EGR cleaned & VSV cleaned by local garage.

Reckon i've spent close to £2000 on all these including the DMF.

Could be multiple sensors anywhere,trouble is the engine runs lovely..no trouble at all......its only when you need instant power & when its partially warmed up.

It is actually quite a worry....this could cost £££'s.....after DMF in 2009,and the rest of these parts giving up.....i'm now thinking twice about toyota ( can't believe i just said that ).

Right...i'm off for a long days walking ...in this beautiful sunshine.....time to cheer myself up :D

[local hero]

Rambs, pretty sure i posted a reply, My brothers car, same year, same symptons, showed up as Turbo fault, lubricating a valve and actuator with WD40 and freeing them off seems to have worked, i will try and find the relevant post Stew

[rambler]

Rambs, pretty sure i posted a reply, My brothers car, same year, same symptons, showed up as Turbo fault, lubricating a valve and actuator with WD40 and freeing them off seems to have worked, i will try and find the relevant post Stew

Hi Stew

Yes thanks for that,i did read that post of yours,...this is what i employed my local independent garage for.

He took of both the VSV and EGR valves,cleaned them both out for me ( i dare'nt touch those).

I assumed he wd40'd the VSV.

I appreaciate all your help though.

still no good though,just want to get it solved....so frustrating.

[jedi134]

are there any fault codes thrown up that might point in the right direction?

has anyone checked for these?

[Tech01]

Hi Jamie,

I had a similar sounding problem on my '03 D4D, which gradually got worse over a number of weeks. Engine would start ok, and perform reasonably well at low revs and moderate throttle. Floor the throttle though, or ask it to operate towards or over 3000rpm, and the power would flutter and hesitate. Eventually at highish revs, there was a "chuffing" sound from the front exhaust area.

Problem turned out to be an almost completely blocked cat (first box). The ceramic honeycomb in it is very fine (less than 1mm hexagaonal 'tubes' of great length), and these were blocked with soot, causing huge backpressure.

To check this out, simply remove this front box, and look inside with a very bright light. The honeycomb should not look blocked. It's also possible to test-drive the car (or any turbo-diesel, I'm told) with only the downpipe in place (i.e.cat and everything that follows removed). The noise is expectedly quiet, because the turbo "smooths out" the exhaust gas pulses. If it runs well like this, then you had a blocked exhaust.

The advice to me was simply to "poke out" the contents of this box (i.e. remove the ceramic contents), and this was done with a long cold-chisel. The ceramic breaks up and falls out, leaving an empty box. Result? Complete cure, and about a 2mpg improvement, with a very slight increase in exhaust note.

Local diesel and 4x4 specialists tell me that cat blocking is fairly common, and that "de-catting" a diesel has a very limited effect on emissions, unlike a petrol vehicle, where the action of the cat is critical in this respect. I did all this almost 3 years ago, and the annual emissions test always produces very very low figures.

Frankly, I'm amazed the cat ever blocked in the first place, since the 4.2 is always run on high-quality fuel, with Millers/Wynns diesel additive. It also gets regular lengthy motorway runs at 120km/h+, as well as mountain track climbing to/from home. It rarely tootles.

Good luck,

Chris

[local hero]

A very good post and i hope it helps poor Rambler, But what you say is very interesting because 2 yrs ago i spoke to a very knowledgeable exhaust specialist who quite frankly said he could never understand why CATS were ever fitted on diesel engines in the first place, they do next to nothing for emissions and only serve to choke the engine, and yet the T180 has dual cats, and to comply with Euro5 emissions our Taxis are to be fitted with them, could this have any bearing on the current engine problems I wonder.. stew

[rambler]

Hi Jamie, I had a similar sounding problem on my '03 D4D, which gradually got worse over a number of weeks. Engine would start ok, and perform reasonably well at low revs and moderate throttle. Floor the throttle though, or ask it to operate towards or over 3000rpm, and the power would flutter and hesitate. Eventually at highish revs, there was a "chuffing" sound from the front exhaust area. Problem turned out to be an almost completely blocked cat (first box). The ceramic honeycomb in it is very fine (less than 1mm hexagaonal 'tubes' of great length), and these were blocked with soot, causing huge backpressure. To check this out, simply remove this front box, and look inside with a very bright light. The honeycomb should not look blocked. It's also possible to test-drive the car (or any turbo-diesel, I'm told) with only the downpipe in place (i.e.cat and everything that follows removed). The noise is expectedly quiet, because the turbo "smooths out" the exhaust gas pulses. If it runs well like this, then you had a blocked exhaust. The advice to me was simply to "poke out" the contents of this box (i.e. remove the ceramic contents), and this was done with a long cold-chisel. The ceramic breaks up and falls out, leaving an empty box. Result? Complete cure, and about a 2mpg improvement, with a very slight increase in exhaust note. Local diesel and 4x4 specialists tell me that cat blocking is fairly common, and that "de-catting" a diesel has a very limited effect on emissions, unlike a petrol vehicle, where the action of the cat is critical in this respect. I did all this almost 3 years ago, and the annual emissions test always produces very very low figures. Frankly, I'm amazed the cat ever blocked in the first place, since the 4.2 is always run on high-quality fuel, with Millers/Wynns diesel additive. It also gets regular lengthy motorway runs at 120km/h+, as well as mountain track climbing to/from home. It rarely tootles. Good luck, Chris

Hi Chris

Wow....thanks for that info ,sounds promising....you know,years ago i used to take my cars apart no problem,but they were generally all fords ( MK2 escort,mk3 escort etc etc)..but these days,they look far too complex for my ' tools ' .

But ......i will book it into my local garage again this week,give him more instructions,and / or watch him do it.

Have been driving the Rav gently all week with no troubles,But if i need brief ' full power ' power when its still warming up....it does'nt like it.

Strange, as once its got fully warmed up its fine.

Out for a long walk with a group today,spoke to my auto elctrician walker friend...he said try the ' engine temperature sensor ' ?....

Where ever that may be ?

If thats not telling the ECU how warm the engine is,the ECU wont give the correct feedback to the throttle sensor.......sound feasable ????

[jedi134]

Sounds feasable!!! I tend not to give mine full power when warming up anyway...

[rambler]

Sounds feasable!!! I tend not to give mine full power when warming up anyway...

Yes...i know its not the best thing to do,but sometimes if i have to pull out on a main rd about 2 miles from home & into busy traffic...i dont have much choice.

And only 2 miles is nowwhere near enough distance for D4D engine to fully warm up

I grimmace when i have to,or wait & wait & wait & wait for a big enough gap...which can take several minutes...unless some kind soul lets me out.Then i just have to go,go,go........but at the moment i cant, cant, cant.!

[spedo]

Hi Jamie

Have you checked all your vaccumm lines for leaks as even a pin hole can cause boost pressure problems. I does sound like a turbo problem i.e it is not spooling up as quick as it should be and like already said I would want to rule out a collapesd of blocked CAT. I would also want to pay attention to the MAP sensor and the wastegate turbo charger regulating valve. The mention about the engine coolant temprature sensor is a valid one and quite a cheap sensor to replace, it can be tested for resistance range, but not really worth the effort or time.

[rambler]

Hi Jamie

Have you checked all your vaccumm lines for leaks as even a pin hole can cause boost pressure problems. I does sound like a turbo problem i.e it is not spooling up as quick as it should be and like already said I would want to rule out a collapesd of blocked CAT. I would also want to pay attention to the MAP sensor and the wastegate turbo charger regulating valve. The mention about the engine coolant temprature sensor is a valid one and quite a cheap sensor to replace, it can be tested for resistance range, but not really worth the effort or time.

Hi spedo

Again ....thanks for the info,i also have my local garage looking into it for me,he does'nt charge as much as toyota, so i don't mind giving him the work to test these things.

Am awaiting some info from him as well.

The Rav has been driving ok for last two weeks,but i rarely have gone above 2-3000 Rpm,and only do that gently.

( Actually to be fair i'm kind of getting used to it....having no power )

Its forcing me to drive more gently ( not that i was always flooring it ) but i have always enjoyed the Rav's power.

Strange though....as since i had the VSV & EGR valves cleaned,it seems to drink far more fuel as well.

I may just get the garage to change that map sensor,just in case ( if its cheap enough)

[spedo]

Hi Jamie

The MAP sensor should be easy for your garage to test. All that needs to be done is to check the supply voltage to the sensor tipical 5v. Then apply a hand vaccumm pump to the sensor and attach a volt meter to the sigal wire of the sensor and earth the other wire of the volt meter. With the ignition turned on (engine not running) pump the hand pump and with each inch of murcury drop the volt meter should drop a steady volt. If the voltage does not drop or the vac pressure does not hold steady then a new MAP sensor is required.

Steve

[rambler]

Ok...if i de-cat my rav.

Surely if i'm not getting power while it warms up.

Why would i get all the power i want / need once it has fully warmed up ?

Surely if my Cats blocked.....then,' its blocked '....would have permanent ' back pressure ' .

As i can cruise at 70 or above once its fully warmed up...no troubles.

[jedi134]

Most cats like the warmth......meaw......

[ormi]

i know this may sound silly but have you checked the fuel filter?if you remove the filter and look threw it and look for gunge....also you could look in the fuel sender/pic up for gunge too...ive come accross this fault a lot lately

[spedo]

Ok...if i de-cat my rav.

Surely if i'm not getting power while it warms up.

Why would i get all the power i want / need once it has fully warmed up ?

Surely if my Cats blocked.....then,' its blocked '....would have permanent ' back pressure ' .

As i can cruise at 70 or above once its fully warmed up...no troubles.

It seems to me that your problem is low gear higher revs where you need the turbo to kick in quickly and it's not, so wont be so noticable at higer speeds. I would not remove the CAT as the new MOT standards coming into force may cause you problems as all emission devices must be fitted and work. Checking back pressure is a standard part of the diagnostic process so you can rule it out and direct your concentration elsewhere without replacing expensive parts in a hit and miss way, which is ok if you are loaded with money, but I suspect this is not the case as you would not be on this forum. If the CAT has collapsed or is severly choked up with soot you will have the symptoms you are experiencing.

[local hero]

Rambs, with the greatest of respect all the above suggestions may or may not be the cause of you problem and i appreciate you not wanting to take it to a Mr T for diagnostics, but if you slowly replace/or remove parts till you find the source of your woes, it could cost you a small fortune, maybe if you bend the ear of your local dealer and he puts it on a diagnostic tester it will throw up a code which will point you in the right direction, even if it points to a Turbo fault (which i suspect) it does not mean you have to buy a new one, Don't give up on a car which you love so much..we are all rooting for you Stew

[rambler]

Thanks ever so much for all this folks.

I have emailed my local garage and hope to have exhaust ' worked on ' on thurs pm.

This will hopefully eliminate the possible blocked CAT ,they also have up to date diagnostics there.

They did a code read when i had the EGR & VSV valves cleared,they didnt tell me the code,but it was turbo system malfunction,which in their words can mean anything involved with the turbo........

I did wonder though.....could i have faulty new SCV valves ?...which my local toyota dealership replaced last year ( and yes i did ask for the old ones,and got them).

I just want to this all sorted out,so i can drive my Rav anywhere again.....with confidence.

[local hero]

HI Rambs, My brother has the same car same year and same faults as you, he has had a DMF same as you, SCVs same as you, and a very similar fault as you describe.. He had the vsv checked and whilst that was done it was noticed the actuator arm on the turbo was stiff, I can only reproduce the email below which he sent me, please get this checked before you go removing cats etc. it MAY just be the answer...Stew .... note his car also brought up a turbo malfunction code as well

Below is a copy of an email i recieved from my brother

Took the Rav to my man today, he has checked and lubed the valve that Anchorman suggested but was not convinced there was anything wrong with it, also and more relevantly I think, he also checked the actuatora arm on the Turbo that operates the variable vains, it was in his opinion much stiffer than usual, by physically ‘working’ this and using WD40 he says it is now as free operating as it should be, he also checked this on other sites where Garrett Turbos are discussed and it appears to be quite common. The fault code recorded was P1250, Turbo Malfunction. He has also removed the Tunit Unit for me. He could fit a recon Turbo Unit from a Garrett specialist at £900 inc labour but is not convinced this is the right thing to do at this point.

The car appears to be working fine, and even without the Tunit it appears to be pulling much better from low revs than I can ever remember it doing, The reason I fitted the Tunit was that it was as flat as a flute below 1400ish revs, it now pulls strongly from 1100/1200rpm in any gear, I spent 30mins up and around the hills in saddleworth without incident. Obviously it’s too early to conclude that I’ve had a result...

Many Thanks to Anchs for hopefully pointing us in the right direction Stew

[rambler]

So.....is this actuator arm easy to find / see / work on ?

Or is it buried behind the engine / within the turbo ....does it mean turbo removal , repair and put back.

[martyn007]

hi

i have the same problem with my rav 4

it is a problem and any help to sort it out would be great

i have a medical prob and a car that needs to get me to hospital 3 times a week without fail

so as i said any help would be greatfull as i think its a great car

[Davrav]

There's a photo [can be enlarged] of the linkage in this post:

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=100034

Not sure how accessible it is but at least you can see what you're looking for............

[anchorman]

You can get at that bottom link with wd40 but don't do it while the engine is hot.