Poor Braking And Long Brake Pedal Travel

[Andy0557]

Hi, I'm a new TOC member, having just bought a 2007 Avensis T180, with 37K miles.

I'm quite happy with the vehicle, except for 2 points: the first is the length of travel on the brake pedal and poor braking effect. I'm told by my local, independent garage owner that the Avensis (and other makes) now have what is called a 'high boost' brake servo that is supposed to provide greater braking effort, but the downside is longer pedal travel. The garage has bled and checked the system and says that the system is functioning perfectly, but my previous car, a 2.5 diesel Skoda would stop on a sixpence if you so much as looked the brakes; so it is disconcerting to find the brake pedal almost on the floor with little resistance on the pedal and no discernible reduction in speed. Is there a solution to this; a change of discs,pads or whatever?

Secondly, I am irritated immensely by a buzzing sound which seems to emanate from every where. I've solved part of the problem by re-sealing the air pipe to air filter box join. Is this a common problem?

[cooper12000]

r u sure they bleed the brakes... there is supposed to be an audible warning on pad wear if i were u i would whip the wheels off and have a look at the pads make sure nothing is rubbing and the pads rnt worn to the limit

coop

[t-spiritpete]

Hello Andy,

all the Avensis diesels are like that and here's another thing you will discover at some point .... if you hold your foot on the brake when stationary the pedal will eventually go to the floor, don't worry this is also a normal feature to do with the ABS and it won't do it whilst moving.

The brakes on my wifes Yaris petrol are really keen like your old Skoda and I have been embarrased a few times when I change cars, the Yaris stands on it's nose and then the Avensis feels like the brakes have failed! :D

Regards

Pete.

[Andy0557]

Thanks guys. I guess I'll just have to get used to it!

[Druid Boy]

Andy, if you are nervous about the brakes then find a nice quiet area and to a brake test. Basically get up to about 30mph and stomp on them hard enough to make the ABS kick in. If the ABS kicks in then your brakes cant work any harder than the ABS will allow so, no problem. I like to do this with hire cars for 2 reasons (1) to learn a little about the brakes and (2) because it feels like childish good fun!

[Heidfirst]

strangely enough you will find that your brakes feel firmer on a second application

also when they are due for replacement you can improve on stopping power & feedback by using non-Toyota-oem pads & discs 9& this will actually be cheaper too).

[acetip]

Though there are many things i find fault with on my Auris,brakes are not one of them. I do not get the brake pedal moving further down if the pressure kept on it,as described, the car stops on a sixpence (yes i remember the sixpence) which is strange as i suspect the materials used are very much as what is used on the Avensis,though brake part dimensions will differ for a larger car.

[Parts-King]

This is a well know feature of the Avensis (and many other makes and marques) of the braking system on cars with ABS / VSC /EBD, (especially diesel) it is not a fault, the brakes work perfectly well, it is just that it "feels" different

Kingo

[acetip]

This is a well know feature of the Avensis (and many other makes and marques) of the braking system on cars with ABS / VSC /EBD, (especially diesel) it is not a fault, the brakes work perfectly well, it is just that it "feels" different

Kingo

That well maybe so but it does not give one confidence of their braking. and takes away some of the pleasure of driving a otherwise fine car.

[Parts-King]

When people are new to the models fitted with ABS / EBD, they often mention the travel in the pedal. They often "assume" there is a problem with the braking, so instead of finding out information, start on a quest to find the "fault" often getting friends or other garages to start bleeding brakes and changing componants and this leads to a lack of confidence in the product. Often what is needed is a bit of relevent information, something factual and to be relied on, rather than going off on a tangent. The issue of long brake travel has been around a long time, not just with Toyota, but with other marques too, in fact, I have some info dated from 2002, it reads

If a large braking force is applied when a vehicle is stationary, the lack of feedback from the brake system will allow the operator / driver to depress the pedal to the floor, giving the feeling of a "lack of brake performance" If the same pedal force were to be applied by the driver whilst driving, the brake force realised would be extremely high. The driver would normally sense this, so such a great pedal force would not be applied. This is a normal and expected condition

Of course it does go without saying, all normal brake checks should be carried out by a competant person before assuming the above condition

Kingo

[t-spiritpete]

Just to be clear I don't have any problem with the brakes on my Avensis it's only when I swap over to the Yaris that I feel the difference in pedal pressure required .... very little. When I first got the Avensis I did exacly as Druid Boy suggested and went on to a local industrial estate one Sunday morning to get the feel under heavy braking and yes they are very good!

I totally agree with Kingo, any doubts about your brakes get a professional to check them out unless you are quailified to do them yourself as some of us on here are.

Pete.

[BigMo82]

strangely enough you will find that your brakes feel firmer on a second application

also when they are due for replacement you can improve on stopping power & feedback by using non-Toyota-oem pads & discs 9& this will actually be cheaper too).

Can I ask what brands of discs and pads you would recommend?

[Heidfirst]

I went with (& was happy with) MTEC discs & Ferodo Premier pads.

Other brands & price levels are available ;)

[BigMo82]

Thanks for your reply. The 2.0 vvti set is about £200 with pads. Is that the normal going rate?

[Parts-King]

I could do you genuine pads and discs for better than that!

You need to shop around a bit, here to help with genuine if required

Kingo

[Heidfirst]

Thanks for your reply. The 2.0 vvti set is about £200 with pads. Is that the normal going rate?

the 4 disc set is about £126 atm incl your choice of grooved etc. I also recommend getting the treatment for the hubs as they will stay clean & nice looking.

I went with better than average pads which were ~£60 at the time but you can buy a full set of pads for 4 wheels from branded manufacturers for ~£40.

I could do you genuine pads and discs for better than that!

You need to shop around a bit, here to help with genuine if required

Kingo

You certainly couldn't get close when I was looking, Kingo.

& using oem parts doesn't address the fact that it's poor oem performance that we are trying to improve on.

The better looks too is icing on the cake.

[Parts-King]

Couldn't get close to what?

[Heidfirst]

to 4 discs & 4 sets of pads for under £200.

in Jan 2011 you quoted me £272.72.

Having said that I bought what I bought not because of the price (I could have gone a lot cheaper still) but because I felt that they were an improvement on the Toyota items.

& imo (& that of others) so they proved.

[Parts-King]

Ah, see what you mean

Well I have to compare apples and apples, I cannot price match genuine with non genuine, its an apples and oranges situation

Whilst genuine discs and pads can be flakey in terms of longevity, (not all as a lot of models fair well) I think in general most drivers would not know the difference between genuine and mid priced non genuine, and as for improved pedal and stopping power, I don't subscribe to that theory, put the two sets with back to back tests and I bet you the genuine fair better in terms of performance. There is lots of money being made on drilled / grooved / painted / coated you name it discs, they look good, but not many are able to offer performance test results. The customer feels good about having that product fitted, and therefore they must be better than standard genuine, sadly not true in the majority of cases

Kingo

[Heidfirst]

I can only go on my own experience.

No, I didn't do empirical testing (I would of course need to have tested brand new Toyota as well as brand new aftermarket to be fair).

However, at worst I doubt that they stopped in any longer distance & quite possibly/probably shorter.

Absolutely no doubt that there was a better/more responsive feel to the brake pedal.

[Parts-King]

Possibly stopped shorter, but maybe longer, but the pedal felt more responsive?.................That just about covers all options then :D:

Just joshin with ya

[Heidfirst]

whatever .... ;)

(we want our other emoticons back!)

[Andy0557]

Thank you once again folks for invaluable advice and info. There is a lot of useful gen to take in; I'll stay with it for a while longer and try to readjust to a different 'feel' of the brakes.

[Druid Boy]

I have just fitted pagid discs & pads on the front and I can't feel any difference - but then I wouldn't expect to because they aren't claiming any improvements. I would like to think that as a bike track day addict and with my car experience I would have detected the difference.

As for upgrading the stopping power of your brakes, if you can't make your ABS work at all (even when standing on the brakes) then your tyres are over-matching your brakes. If your ABS works but isn't kicking in regularly you don't need to upgrade because you still have tyre grip left. Your free upgrade is pressing the pedal harder......