PHEV or HEV for towing?

[Flatcoat]

I am on the cusp of ordering a PHEV however is there anyone towing with either? The HEV is almost £10k less on a like for like basis….. 

[Teresap]

2 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

I am on the cusp of ordering a PHEV however is there anyone towing with either? The HEV is almost £10k less on a like for like basis….. 

Toyota don’t recommend the phev for towing. I tow with a 2020 RAV4 it fantastic and has a towing capacity of 1650 kg. 
  I might be wrong but I think the towing capacity of the PHEV is only 700 KG

[ernieb]

The PHEV has a braked capacity of 1500Kg. Unbraked the same as the HEV, 750Kg.

see, 

 

[philip42h]

I don't tow so anything I say should be taken with that in mind ... 😉

The PHEV, with a fully charged Battery, will have more torque to help get your load moving. The PHEV has a more powerful front electric motor.

By the time you've exhausted the pre-charged element of the Battery, you are down to exactly the same petrol engine in the PHEV or HEV - and you won't get anywhere near 50 miles of EV range if you stick a van on the back. So, when pulling up a long drag further into your journey the HEV will win hands down - it has the same petrol engine as the PHEV but doesn't need to drag around the now mostly depleted Battery ...

Just my thoughts ...

[Flatcoat]

Where does Toyota state the PHEV is not recommended for towing? If it has a 1500kg towing limit that wouldn’t make sense. 

However the PHEV Battery is never fully depleted and settings can ensure energy is saved for when it is needed. I already tow with a Volvo PHEV and you don’t set off in EV mode, flatten the Battery and then switch to the infernal combustion engine. I do nevertheless have in mind the PHEV Battery is a lot of weight to carry but does come with the benefit of more torque and horses. 

Teresap, what do you tow? How heavy is it? 

[MyOpinionIsWorthless]

3 hours ago, philip42h said:

I don't tow so anything I say should be taken with that in mind ... 😉

The PHEV, with a fully charged battery, will have more torque to help get your load moving. The PHEV has a more powerful front electric motor.

By the time you've exhausted the pre-charged element of the battery, you are down to exactly the same petrol engine in the PHEV or HEV - and you won't get anywhere near 50 miles of EV range if you stick a van on the back. So, when pulling up a long drag further into your journey the HEV will win hands down - it has the same petrol engine as the PHEV but doesn't need to drag around the now mostly depleted battery ...

Just my thoughts ...

I tow with my Prius and I only lose 10mpg

 

[PeteB]

Apart from weight, presumably the size and shape of whatever is towed will be a factor too.  For example, it seems there are some caravans that can fold (for want of a better word) so when being towed they are about half the height of a regular caravan.  Also, some 'vans have a more aerodynamically shaped front which will help create a bit less drag.

[Flatcoat]

I already tow a caravan so with all due respect I am looking for responses from people who tow, not a discussion on wind resistance of folding caravans which is utterly irrelevant. 

[ernieb]

@Flatcoat, sorry I don’t have an answer for you either. But to be honest there are only a few PHEV’s in circulation right now and not many of those will have been fitted to tow.  The cars only been in the UK for a few months, mine was one of the first and that was the very end of May.

You will have to extrapolate the reviews of those who tow with the HEV model and take it as a fact that Toyota tend to be conservative in the towing limits and capabilities.  If you intend to tow under the “limit” of 1500Kg and keep the nose weight correct then I really don’t see there being a problem. The car has massive amounts of torque, four wheel drive, low centre of gravity and good weight balance over all of the wheels, (engine in the front and Battery over the rear) the car handles well for a heavy car and has a positive grounded feel on the road.

Try some of the US forums there are people out there who’ve had the car for over a year and tow you might get a better answer to you question.

[Flatcoat]

Thanks Ernieb, it is always the conundrum with a new model! I have tried a US Facebook page without getting any sense out of the replies. I would be towing at the PHEV’s tow weight limit but that is less than the HEV’s. Have spoken to a HEV owner who had towed with his for over 2 years and so impressed he is getting another. The question is do I need the additional power from the PHEV given in ICE mode there isn’t any practical difference and is that power worth spending £10k on? I have a Volvo Diesel PHEV now that is similar bhp and acceleration to the RAV PHEV and do like it but that was bought used. 

[ernieb]

@Flatcoat, always difficult and sometimes it depends on how Lang you are going to keep the car. It is also about the times when you are not connected to the van. I think the RAV4 PHEV has a better EV Battery range and if you can charge from the mains then that might be a consideration. Additionally it dos come with a 5 year warranty but is extended if you service the car with Toyota so that you can get an effective 10 year warranty now all these things come with caveats but again if you are buying as a keeper then    that is something to think about.  Have you had a test drive if not go and get one, you’d be able to estimate how you’d feel about driving the car long term and be more able to make the comparison with what you have got. 
My PHEV range if high 48 plus on the motorway as the limit and locally is easily mid 50’s at the present.

[MyOpinionIsWorthless]

15 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

I already tow a caravan so with all due respect I am looking for responses from people who tow, not a discussion on wind resistance of folding caravans which is utterly irrelevant. 

For me (towed for 2 years) it was a simple choice of HEV over PHEV as I wanted a spare tyre not a gunk kit. PHEV offers more disadvantages than advantages for me when it comes to a choice of Prius’s. I chose my unit to match the tow rating , once they increase that in later models I’ll upscale my unit. it will still be a HEV though. 

[Flatcoat]

Must admit I am increasingly erring toward HEV. The PHEV came on the radar following last weeks price drop and better availability. 

[DaveKA]

I tow a 1600Kg caravan with a 2019 Excel AWD HEV, it is an excellent towcar. When towing the ICE is providing power most of the time so I don't imagine a PHEV would have much range on Battery power. Towing I get between 24 and 28mpg, depending on road, terrain, traffic, right foot etc.  For me the main advantage of a hybrid is the near max torque from both motors on pulling away, with the CVT the ICE is on the torque curve almost immediately as well, so none of the old waiting for the revs to climb, especially on entering roundabouts.  I looked at the PHEV as an 'upgrade', but saw no advantages for towing.

Hope this helps reinforce your decision

Dave

 

[satts67]

Apart from Tax and feel good factor I cant see any gains to be made from either Battery version. I get 36 mpg from a 2.2 DCAT Auto Diesel and I don't hang about. It would drop a bit towing a caravan around Europe but how often do I actually do that?? I have had hybrids before and they are just... ok . Expensive to buy and certainly no more economical in a big 4wd vehicle. Best suited to smaller cars until they get better at it IMHO..

[Flatcoat]

Thanks DaveKA, very helpful. The PHEV advantage would possibly be on long mountain climbs when driving to Austria or Italy.

satts, Unfortunately Toyota do not make a diesel RAV 4 so pointless observation. I have a PHEV Volvo so know for us it works. We will be a one car household with this purchase so need it to cover all the requirements. 

[satts67]

Not everyone on this forum has the luxury of buying a brand new car so not entirely pointless...

[Marcusthehat]

10 hours ago, satts67 said:

Apart from Tax and feel good factor I cant see any gains to be made from either battery version. I get 36 mpg from a 2.2 DCAT Auto Diesel and I don't hang about. It would drop a bit towing a caravan around Europe but how often do I actually do that?? I have had hybrids before and they are just... ok . Expensive to buy and certainly no more economical in a big 4wd vehicle. Best suited to smaller cars until they get better at it IMHO..

Boody hell, 36mpg! so How much of your driving involves towing? I did however note the "dont hang about" comment, but still a sobering figure.

I am pleased with the fuel economy of our recent Rav4 HEV, incl for  a little towing and this after near 25 years of driving economical VAG diesels.

Marcus

[philip42h]

13 minutes ago, Marcusthehat said:

Boody hell, 36mpg! so How much of your driving involves towing? I did however note the "dont hang about" comment, but still a sobering figure.

I am pleased with the fuel economy of our recent Rav4 HEV, incl for  a little towing and this after near 25 years of driving economical VAG diesels.

Marcus

Over 61k miles my 2013 D-CAT Auto returned 37.7 mpg (no towing, mostly 'sensible' driving) so a figure in the high 30's is what I would expect. The 2.2 diesel is a very good car with reasonable economy for its size.

The 4.5 hybrid is just ... so much better ... much quieter, quicker, more comfortable and far more economical to run - you just have to ignore the new car purchase price! 😉

[Marcusthehat]

7 minutes ago, philip42h said:

Over 61k miles my 2013 D-CAT Auto returned 37.7 mpg (no towing, mostly 'sensible' driving) so a figure in the high 30's is what I would expect. The 2.2 diesel is a very good car with reasonable economy for its size.

The 4.5 hybrid is just ... so much better ... much quieter, quicker, more comfortable and far more economical to run - you just have to ignore the new car purchase price! 😉

I am still attempting to "forget" how much we paid😔, but we intend to keep the vehicle for 15 years or so.

Having only bought 2 new cars since 1998, and the last 1 met a premature 140,000 mile mechanical demise(due to dry DQ200 VAG DSG excrement) when she was otherwise good for another few years😢

[Flatcoat]

Sorry satts however we are treating ourselves given we are going from 2 cars to 1. It is SWMBO who is anti diesel otherwise it would be a SEAT Terracco, Skoda Kodiaq or used Touareg. I currently have a used Volvo Diesel PHEV V60 and tiny boot and ride apart I love it, my wife finds it too low (it was marketed as a coupe estate sur le continent). We get high 20’s towing a 1550kg caravan, low 40’s on a solo very fast cross europe drive and high 40’s/low 50’s in general use. 

[Lawnmowerman]

3 hours ago, philip42h said:

Over 61k miles my 2013 D-CAT Auto returned 37.7 mpg (no towing, mostly 'sensible' driving) so a figure in the high 30's is what I would expect. The 2.2 diesel is a very good car with reasonable economy for its size.

The 4.5 hybrid is just ... so much better ... much quieter, quicker, more comfortable and far more economical to run - you just have to ignore the new car purchase price! 😉

Just content yourself in the knowledge (hope) that it would have a higher retained value down the line (although that doesn't take away the pain of the dropped values due to Toyota's price reductions). I think everyone was blind-sided by that - especially given the poor availability of new cars in general.

Just my opinion, but I think the PHEV would be a more attractive proposition than other vehicles as we near the cliff edge of BEV's alone. As to public charging facilities, it never seems to be mentioned that (in towns for example) the vehicle could sit in the charging bay longer than it needs because the owner is off shopping or something else and it then becomes a parking bay. Any thoughts on that one?

I keep saying my current car is my last (well have said it twice) but the price drop on the PHEV has seriously got me thinking (coupled with the rise in value of my own car - not sure how long that will last though). Just need a solution to home charging - need to talk to my neighbour (Model Railway Club) as their car park would allow me to hook up to a charge point on my house.

[Flatcoat]

So decided, PHEV ordered! Dynamic Premium. Combination of recent list price drop, a further £2k+ discount, cheap Toyota finance and my car worth £2k more than anticipated. You only live once…. 

[ernieb]

That sounds great and welcome to the PHEV club sounds like you’ve got a good deal. 👍

[Flatcoat]

With already having a PHEV it was always going to be hard going to a self charging hybrid. The various road tests of the RAV PHEV and Across stablemate always get excellent real world EV mileage. Discounted price better than Carwow, Whatcar discounts, benefit of a month end deal…..