Anger Over No Ban For 113mph Peer

[Fidgits]

They end up paying the same punishment as it is proportional to their income. Ie someone on 10pound a day with a 2£ fine will be affected just the same as someone on £100 a day and a 20pound fine

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I hate to tell you this, but if you go to court, fines are means tested... the suggestion is hardly new...

But your saying, caught doing 80mph on a motorway, chav pays £20 & 3 points, hard working family man has to pay £200 & 3 points just because he works for a living...

so by that logic - surely groceries should be means tested?

so the chav on benifits pays 2p a tin of beans, and the hard-working family man pays 60p a tin!

and hey, while were at it, why not say petrol should be means tested - the nicer your car, the more you pay for the fuel....

[Avensis wagon]

They end up paying the same punishment as it is proportional to their income. Ie someone on 10pound a day with a 2£ fine will be affected just the same as someone on £100 a day and a 20pound fine

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Exactly. It's supposed to be a punishment, and it should be a punishment of equal hardship to all, not a severe kick up the backside for the majority and no Emmerdale tonight for the wealthy, who may also have inherited that wealth rather than earned it.

There is a minimum fine where this rule is practiced, and the loss of licence applies across the board. Oh, but in the case of a lord it didn't.

[Robie]

They end up paying the same punishment as it is proportional to their income. Ie someone on 10pound a day with a 2£ fine will be affected just the same as someone on £100 a day and a 20pound fine

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I hate to tell you this, but if you go to court, fines are means tested... the suggestion is hardly new...

But your saying, caught doing 80mph on a motorway, chav pays £20 & 3 points, hard working family man has to pay £200 & 3 points just because he works for a living...

so by that logic - surely groceries should be means tested?

so the chav on benifits pays 2p a tin of beans, and the hard-working family man pays 60p a tin!

and hey, while were at it, why not say petrol should be means tested - the nicer your car, the more you pay for the fuel....

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Now your getting silly and implying that I don't want hard working men to have luxuries from the supermarket!

Punishments should be of equal punishment... Those who work hard can still enjoy the benefits of their money if I need to make that clear!!!

So to summarise:

"That logic" = Punishments....

[Fidgits]

and as i said, if you go to court to be punished, then that is exactly how it works....

but for 'fixed penalties' by there very nature, should be 'fixed'...

but you were also talking about income related council tax...

[Tom.B]

Fidgits matey.....totally agree with youre points ..gotta be a first lol!! but I agree its a flippin wee wee take the way chavs get small fine whereas us hard workers get massive fines

[Robie]

How about pensioners who have spent their whole lives from age 16 working hard labour in car manufacturing earning just enough to live as they were not wealthy enough to afford a pension of their own and rely on a miniscule pension.

Low incomes does not mean chav :ffs: and it is a very harsh statement to make.

If it helps my argument and shows you I am not being biased, my parents would be considerably worse off with any income related tax and I would not benefit at all, I just think its fair that everyone is punished equally and taxes are taken and distributed equally and fairly.

[Moffmo]

no but chavs do get away with ridulous fines, most which will come back to them anyway in benefits...

They paid it off on benefits, they get it back in benefits..

They should be locked up or forced to work :ffs:

[Robie]

no but chavs do get away with ridulous fines, most which will come back to them anyway in benefits...

They paid it off on benefits, they get it back in benefits..

They should be locked up or forced to work :ffs:

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Source?

[Moffmo]

no but chavs do get away with ridulous fines, most which will come back to them anyway in benefits...

They paid it off on benefits, they get it back in benefits..

They should be locked up or forced to work :ffs:

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Source?

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Local paper, courts reports section:

Robin Dyd, 21, Driving without tax, insurance, mot, or license ,pleaded gulity.

120 quid fine and 1 month driving ban

(err he couldnt drive anyway?)

What im paying for my insurance, i would have to be caught 6 times (providing i do get caught) in order to cover what i am paying right now.

[Fidgits]

How about pensioners who have spent their whole lives from age 16 working hard labour in car manufacturing earning just enough to live as they were not wealthy enough to afford a pension of their own and rely on a miniscule pension.

Low incomes does not mean chav  :ffs: and it is a very harsh statement to make.

If it helps my argument and shows you I am not being biased, my parents would be considerably worse off with any income related tax and I would not benefit at all, I just think its fair that everyone is punished equally and taxes are taken and distributed equally and fairly.

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fair point...

BUT...

Taking speeding as an example - who's more likely to abuse the 'means tested fine', the 70 year old pensioner, or the 20 year old chav?

As i have said several times.... if you go to court, fines ARE means tested already...

But fixed penalties (e.g. parking fines/most speeding fines) are fixed - which means its a fixed penalty, if it becomes mean tested, its not longer fixed, and everyone would need to go to Magistrates court for them to decide what fine was nesacerry...

and then, the people that started this conversation - the upper echelons and ministers, would still get off with a slap on their wrists, because its not what you know, but who you know....

[Robie]

Taking speeding as an example - who's more likely to abuse the 'means tested fine', the 70 year old pensioner, or the 20 year old chav?

As i have said several times.... if you go to court, fines ARE means tested already...

But fixed penalties (e.g. parking fines/most speeding fines) are fixed - which means its a fixed penalty, if it becomes mean tested, its not longer fixed, and everyone would need to go to Magistrates court for them to decide what fine was nesacerry...

and then, the people that started this conversation - the upper echelons and ministers, would still get off with a slap on their wrists, because its not what you know, but who you know....

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I disagree that it is necessary to go to court in order for a fine to be related to your income.

[Avensis wagon]

Mmm... should be easy enough to automate, and then appeal if your circumstances have changed.

But back to the wider picture, fines are means tested downwards, but not so significantly upwards for the comparatively wealthy. Therefore the fines paid by the financially average and poor are in terms relative to their circumstances equal. But the financially well above average are relatively getting away with it to the point that what is meant to be a punishment barely tickles them.

This thread started out about inequality -- about a wealthy person of high social status receivng unjustified positive discrimination since he kept is licence despite two prior offences where others would have lost it. And on top of that, the fine he paid wouldn't even touch him, relatively, so it's hardly a punishment. Other members of society would have felt the severity of the punishment, and that's unequal.

It's not right I tell ya!

[Fidgits]

Taking speeding as an example - who's more likely to abuse the 'means tested fine', the 70 year old pensioner, or the 20 year old chav?

As i have said several times.... if you go to court, fines ARE means tested already...

But fixed penalties (e.g. parking fines/most speeding fines) are fixed - which means its a fixed penalty, if it becomes mean tested, its not longer fixed, and everyone would need to go to Magistrates court for them to decide what fine was nesacerry...

and then, the people that started this conversation - the upper echelons and ministers, would still get off with a slap on their wrists, because its not what you know, but who you know....

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I disagree that it is necessary to go to court in order for a fine to be related to your income.

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well, who decides how you work it out? what are the price points?

I mean, your whole principal falls down when it comes to the uber-rich anyway...

a £1000 fine would be hard for most hard-working people, even those on £50K a year - but not a premiership footballer or CEO..

I know what your getting at, but its flawed...

and again, I re-iterate, if this happened, then its not longer a fixed penalty - and so you need an additional mechanism to deal with it... (e.g. madgistrate)