Bag Of Old Spanners

[thiambal]

I have a pertrol 1.8 Vvti. I have noticed over the last week or so that the engine is very noisy when starting from cold. It sounds very much like a cold diesel engine (although I am sure the Toyota diesel purrs like a cat - but you know what I mean :) ) The noise gets louder if you rev the engine and lasts for a minute or so. This only seems to happen first thing in the morning ir when the engine is started from cold.

I have checked the oil level which is fine. Has anyone else experienced this or know what might cause it? Is it just to do with the cold weather or something more sinister?

[victor kakol]

Correct grade of oil? needing an oil change?

[jamesholden]

Could be something to do with the timing chain or it's tensioner, when they wear they can sound rather clattery.

[thiambal]

Correct grade of oil? needing an oil change?

No, had a oil change 1,500 miles ago, cheers anyway

Could be something to do with the timing chain or it's tensioner, when they wear they can sound rather clattery.

I handn't considered that, could be, worth investigating, but would this noise stop when you dip the clutch?

[talldave]

Could well be the timing chain/tensioner. I used to have a Peugeot 205 (they were renowned for rattling). It rattled a lot and as I recall did stop when you pressed the clutch. Wasn't a problem though - it had done over 180,000 miles when I eventually sold it.

[taximark]

Never rev the car when cold! let it reach normal Temp before over revving you would be surprised how much a cold engine can wear when not warmed up properly.

[thiambal]

Never rev the car when cold! let it reach normal Temp before over revving you would be surprised how much a cold engine can wear when not warmed up properly.

Fair point, but I would not say the noise was caused by over reving the engine. The noise is evident at normal revs neccesary for pulling away and driving along.

[pete.c]

hi,

does this noise seem to come from the black plastic air intake. mine had a diesel sounding clunking noise around 2000rpm on pickup and letoff and really got on my nerves. put your head against the manifold and manually rev the car using the throttle body cable, if you hear the noise coming from here then its your plastic intake manifold, don't ask me why but have heard it was a bad batch and design fault from the supplier to toyota and most replaced under warranty. my car is 4yrs old now so not covered. i obtained a cheap "new" manifold and replaced myself NO MORE NOISE AT ALL!!!!! ;)

don't know what was causing the noise cuz after investigating the old one there was nothing obvious and no rattles when shaken.

[thiambal]

hi,

does this noise seem to come from the black plastic air intake. mine had a diesel sounding clunking noise around 2000rpm on pickup and letoff and really got on my nerves. put your head against the manifold and manually rev the car using the throttle body cable, if you hear the noise coming from here then its your plastic intake manifold, don't ask me why but have heard it was a bad batch and design fault from the supplier to toyota and most replaced under warranty. my car is 4yrs old now so not covered. i obtained a cheap "new" manifold and replaced myself NO MORE NOISE AT ALL!!!!! ;)

don't know what was causing the noise cuz after investigating the old one there was nothing obvious and no rattles when shaken.

I will give it a go and let you know!!

Cheers matey

[pete.c]

your best bet would be to get one from a breakers but its pot luck as this bad batch my cover many models, toyota want £270+vat OUCH!!!!!

try these. i put in my

details but you will need to re-quote with your details and any chassis or part numbers.

Part Request Ref: ***533

Part Details: Inlet manifold

Price (incl. VAT/Delivery) GBP: £65.8 (BIG PRICE DIFFERENCE OR WHAT)

Part Warranty (in days): 30

Part delivery is normally within 24hrs (please confirm timescale with the supplier)

Suppliers additional information:

Please call 0871 233 2831 (local rate 10p per minute applies) to speak directly with the supplier holding your part. You can then confirm the details (quoting Part Request Ref: 304533) and order.

Thank you for using www.breakeryard.com We trust you have enjoyed the service.

If you have any further questions or queries, please do not hesitate to contact us on 0871 222 0521.

Kind Regards,

The Breakeryard.com Team

i just fell lucky obtaining mine.

[thiambal]

Hmmm, tried this, no unusual noise coming from air inlet manifold.

Back to the bag of spanners option - unless some cheeky chappy has slipped a diesel engine in which I wasn't looking. :D

Have had the car in the garage (not Mr T) and he acknowledge that it was a little noisy but could not find any good reason for it.

Cheer for your suggestion anyway.

[CircularSaw]

Could be a myriad of problems...could be wrongly fitted spark plugs hitting the top of the pistons...then when the engine warms up the clearances increase and it stops. Though this would usually be accompanied with misfiring or "pinking" and horrid smoke coming out the back.

Could be the tensioner or chain, as mentioned. Could be a loose exhaust manifold. The bolts work loose though tighten up when the metal exapnds with the engine heat. Could be worn cams...again, heat expansion stops noise. Could be faulty hydraulic tappets...

How about giving more information?

Any smoke? Increased fuel economy? Thinning or diluted motor oil? Loss of power/compression? Revs erratic or low on idle? How many miles has it done?

[thiambal]

Could be a myriad of problems...could be wrongly fitted spark plugs hitting the top of the pistons...then when the engine warms up the clearances increase and it stops. Though this would usually be accompanied with misfiring or "pinking" and horrid smoke coming out the back.

Could be the tensioner or chain, as mentioned. Could be a loose exhaust manifold. The bolts work loose though tighten up when the metal exapnds with the engine heat. Could be worn cams...again, heat expansion stops noise. Could be faulty hydraulic tappets...

How about giving more information?

Any smoke? Increased fuel economy? Thinning or diluted motor oil? Loss of power/compression? Revs erratic or low on idle? How many miles has it done?

There is not much more to know really. No smoke, fuel economy fine, no apparent problems with oil, no loss of power, revs fine, it has done 50,000 miles.

[CircularSaw]

Ok, that info coupled with the fact the engine is relatively low mileage...you can count out almost certainly anything to do with internal engine components.

Next question: What does the noise sound like and where, in your best estimation, is it coming from?

Does it sound like tapping? Sort of like tick-tack-tick-tacker-tick? ;) The tapping would come from the top part of the engine.

Or is it more like a general rattling sound?

Can you smell unburnt petrol coming from the exhaust when this happens?

My hunch is it may be either the exhaust manifold or exhaust mounting bolts. It stops after 1 minute you said? So it suggest it's one of the parts that warms up first...can you smell. Lift the bonnet...can you smell exhaust gasses?

[thiambal]

Ok, that info coupled with the fact the engine is relatively low mileage...you can count out almost certainly anything to do with internal engine components.

Next question: What does the noise sound like and where, in your best estimation, is it coming from?

Does it sound like tapping? Sort of like tick-tack-tick-tacker-tick? ;) The tapping would come from the top part of the engine.

Or is it more like a general rattling sound?

Can you smell unburnt petrol coming from the exhaust when this happens?

My hunch is it may be either the exhaust manifold or exhaust mounting bolts. It stops after 1 minute you said? So it suggest it's one of the parts that warms up first...can you smell. Lift the bonnet...can you smell exhaust gasses?

Hard to say exactly where it is comeing from, have tried reving the engine manually from the engine bay but cannot then hear the sound.

The noise is worse when the engine is cold and improves when warm - although I think it is a generally noisy engine compared to my old Celica. I suppose tick-tack etc is a reasonable approximation of the sound. It is worse between 1500-3000 revs in 2/3 gear

If check again for exhaust gas smells later today, but I have not been aware of any.

[CircularSaw]

If you can't hear it in the engine bay....then it can't come from the engine. So at this point it's either a transmission problem or what I think more likely...the exhuast. If you don't get any clutch judder and the gear changes are normal...then it must be the exhaust. Or a less likely scenario...a sheared or broken engine mounting. The exhaust is more likely.

When the engine is cold...(completely cold!!!)....try grabbing onto the exhaust manifold and seeing if it's loose (you'll see the exhaust manifold cos it has 4 pipes going into 1).

It could also be the catalyst heat deflector shield....that seems a common cause for rattling and noisy cars.

You could also if you wanted to try to check if an engine mounting has failed...but this is a lot harder because the engine is very heavy so chances are it would lean on something....sometimes you can note this by seeing if the engine is at a funny angle or looks different...but most times it's very difficult to say.

Remember...never touch the engine when it is running...and never while it's hot!!!!

[Steve84]

The other week we had a yaris come into work with a heavy rattle nosie comming from it. after strpping down the engine it was found that the timing chain was worn. We put this down to the car not having its first service until 22k. My old corolla had its vvt-i engine replace due to high oil use, after 3000 miles on the new engine it developed a diesel like rattle phoned up dealer they got car booked in. On way over the engine blew up on the way there. After stripping it down they found the camshaft key had failed. The rattle was the chain has it lost tension. So that was another new engine.

[Black Knight]

On way over the engine blew up on the way there. After stripping it down they found the camshaft key had failed. The rattle was the chain has it lost tension. So that was another new engine.

The key on a shaft like that is normally only there for location. Shouldn't be taking any load (the bolt clamping should do that). When they changed the engine for oil use did they only change the shortblock (Keeping the same cylinder head) guess is that cause of the oil problem it caused damage to the cylinder head which finally seized the camshaft twisting the camshaft off the chain

[CircularSaw]

The other week we had a yaris come into work with a heavy rattle nosie comming from it. after strpping down the engine it was found that the timing chain was worn. We put this down to the car not having its first service until 22k. My old corolla had its vvt-i engine replace due to high oil use, after 3000 miles on the new engine it developed a diesel like rattle phoned up dealer they got car booked in. On way over the engine blew up on the way there. After stripping it down they found the camshaft key had failed. The rattle was the chain has it lost tension. So that was another new engine.

Yeah but do your examples have anything to do with this post? You mention rattling due to problems with the timing chain. Would the rattling stop after a minute (once the engine started warming) as in this case? He also mentioned he couldn't hear the rattling when he put his ear near the engine block. I very much doubt you couldn't hear a rattling timing chain if you stuck your ear on the rocker cover. Futhermore, a worn or problematic timing chain will not only give a rattling noise but also higher fuel consumption and a badly running engine due to the cam shaft not functioning properly (timing would be off) thus the cams delaying the opening and closing of the valves (letting unburnt petrol out of the exhaust valve etc).