Amazon Gx - Poor Performance/gear Change

[Lamb]

Hope someone can help. Have a 98 Amazon 4.2TD Auto. Only had it a couple of months, but have noticed a gradual decline in performance, namely smokier, and gear changes later.

Have had it serviced, new oil, air, and fuel filters etc, but still no improvement. If i accellerate moderately hard, it leaves a huge plume of black smoke behind (very large), and if i accellerate sofly, wisps of white smoke is apparent, even if engine is hot.

At night I notice the white smoke more, as i pull off and look in rear view, if there's a car behind me , it looks foggy as their headlisghts shine thru it.

At same time, i have noticed the gears change later than when i first had it. Performane drop is most ntable when going up a hill, it really strains. Mate of mine looked at the Auto filler dipstick and reckons Auto Fluid is too high. Could this be a problem? a red herring, or is ther multiple problems?

Any advice would be appreciated.

many thanks

java script:emoticon('', 'smid_12')

[stevetubbyturbo]

I wouldn't be too bothered about the big black cloud when you put you foot down the chances your car is a import and it has a EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirclation) valve fitted to cut down on NoX which is part of the Jap MOT the only side effect of EGR valve is lots and lots of black smoke under load.

As for the white smoke my 4x4 does this as well and its just condensation as the hot exhaust gas hits the cold air and as for seeing it at night in the headlights of car behind you again its just hot gas and smoke you can see i wouldn't worry to much about it and sometimes i find to to my advantage when i want vengence on tailgated (foot down and cover then in a cloud )

Unless you car is excessivly white smokeing what looks a aircraft vapor trail and you are having to top up coolant and you heaters and temp gauge show or work anything from normal i wouldn't worry.

As for your gearbox im not sure is it maybe you are not giving the vehicle as much as you did when you first got as your worried about covering other drivers in soot.

Also do you have a O/D overdrive and ECT PWR Electronic Control Transmision Power switch

When driving around town i have the O/D off unless i do over 45-50 mph

With the ECT i normally use this when pulling up steapish hill all it does is lets the engine rev a bit more befor it changes the gears

Hope some of this helps you mate

[Lamb]

Thanks mate, what you say makes a lot of sense. The foggy smoke does coincide with the cold snap we've had for last couple of weeks, so I guess maybe when weather warms up I should see this less? certainly theres no loss of coolant that i can detect.

Your probably right about not giving it enough welly for fear of covering those behind in white smoke and soot, i have definetly become more concious of that. Certainly my wife complained earlier today that i spend far too much time looking in rear view mirror, so its got to me pyschologically. If we now think there's probably nothing wrong, I'll snap out of it, for safety reasons!

I'll try the tip on using the O/D and power switches. i never touch these, always off, ie not displayed on instrument panels.

Thanks sir for taking the time to repsond, much appreciated, very useful.

[stevetubbyturbo]

Weather the Amazon is the same as the Surf im not sure but on the Surf the O/D is off when its didplayed on the dash and the opposite for the ECT which is on when displayed

[sandgroper]

Hope someone can help. Have a 98 Amazon 4.2TD Auto. Only had it a couple of months, but have noticed a gradual decline in performance, namely smokier, and gear changes later.

Have had it serviced, new oil, air, and fuel filters etc, but still no improvement. If i accellerate moderately hard, it leaves a huge plume of black smoke behind (very large), and if i accellerate sofly, wisps of white smoke is apparent, even if engine is hot.

At night I notice the white smoke more, as i pull off and look in rear view, if there's a car behind me , it looks foggy as their headlisghts shine thru it.

At same time, i have noticed the gears change later than when i first had it. Performane drop is most ntable when going up a hill, it really strains. Mate of mine looked at the Auto filler dipstick and reckons Auto Fluid is too high. Could this be a problem? a red herring, or is ther multiple problems?

Any advice would be appreciated.

many thanks

java script:emoticon('', 'smid_12')

These will run as clean as whistle when tuned correctly. Take it to someone who knows what their doing and get the injectors looked at and the pump timing checked.

The smoke should be almost invisible and there should only be a 1 second flash of whitish smoke on startup allowing of course for vapour in cold climates.

Its losing power so something is wrong.

[Gupster2000]

Lamb,

Take it to someone who knows what their doing and get the injectors looked at and the pump timing checked.

While your there have all the filters changed

The smoke should be almost invisible and there should only be a 1 second flash of whitish smoke on startup allowing of course for vapour in cold climates.

Its losing power so something is wrong.

I agree with the above. if you are having huge clouds of smoke i would instantly think piston rigns or turbo oil seal or stem seals. Best to take it to have a look at its the sort of problem that needs to be looked at or we could spend all year asking questions to find out the cause. Or speak to someone in the forum that lives near you and buy them a few beers instead of paying garage fees!!!

Gupster>>>

www.hpoc.co.uk

Hilux Pickup Online Community

[Lamb]

Thanks folks for responses so far.

All the filters, Oil,Air and Fuel have already been changed. No improvement.

I should point out that the white smoke is only really bad when under load, for example, pulling away from standstill or climbing up a hill, it will leave a cloud of white smoke behind until the engine is no longer under load. This happens even if i am going slow. If I accellearate too fast, the smoke is black.

As mentioned earlier, only spot this at night when cars behind have lights on. I'm due to go back to dealer next week. Hopefully nothing too serious!

[stevetubbyturbo]

as ive said mate i dont think its is serious and if only spotting it a night i dont think its anything as small amounts of smoke are more visible if you shine a light through it, for example if you smoke a cigarette in the dark you hardly see any smoke if you shine a light on it i looks like loads.

All diesel engines produce smoke and more under load and older IDI (indirect injection) diesel's smoke heavily and the newer DI (direct injection) diesels dont smoke as much but still do produce smoke so the chances you are just seeing the smoke your engine produces at night that you wouldnt normally see during the day.

If you have it booked into a dealer let them have a look and see if there is something wrong and if you feel that its lossing power them try and get them tune it up.

I hope it is nothing more than what i have said

keep us informed

[sandgroper]

Ill disagree on how much smoke they should produce. I have a 1HZ 4.2 which is the non turbo version that the Amazon has and it does not make black smoke.

In fact the Amazon with its later model engine,the 1HDT FE and upgraded injector pump,should run cleaner than mine.

I get some traces of smoke at 3500 rpm under load(its due for its first tune since rebuilding) but none under normal driving

We got plenty of them in Australia and if they blow clouds of black smoke(or any diesel) they get put off the road very quickly.

Its all about finding a good diesel mechanic and they aint cheap.

Black smoke is over fuelling and it means the fuel is entering the combustion chamber in droplets rather than an atomized spray. The droplets hit the piston and cause hot spots ,which after a lengthy amount of time can burn a hole in the piston.

The black smoke is also leaving carbon deposits in the oil which wears the engine prematurely.

[stevetubbyturbo]

I can understand where you are coming from but as you have said yours is an N/A and not a turbo like Lamb's.

in my time in the motor industry i never came across a turbo diesel that didnt smoke to some extent thats why in the UK for our emmision test for CI engine we have 2 limits on the smoke test 3.00 ppm for N/A and 3.50 ppm for Turbos as TD's smoke more.

As for black smoke being due to overfueling you are spot on but again the majority of diesels engines do this at load where the pump just throws loads of excess fuel when on continueous burn.

I must admit as you have said with a very good diesel mechanic can set up a pump so little smoke is produced and on the newer diesel engine they are a lot cleaner.

And again as you have said diesel get carbon in the oil but by changing the oil as stated by the manafacturer there is no reason why it should cause a problem.

But this is a subject we may have to agree to disagree

[sandgroper]

I can understand where you are coming from but as you have said yours is an N/A and not a turbo like Lamb's.

in my time in the motor industry i never came across a turbo diesel that didnt smoke to some extent thats why in the UK for our emmision test for CI engine we have 2 limits on the smoke test 3.00 ppm for N/A and 3.50 ppm for Turbos as TD's smoke more.

There is no reason that Im aware of that a why a turbo would blow noticeably more black smoke than a NA diesel.

The turbo compresses the air which means an injector pump needs to have the fuel turned up to keep the fuel mixture correct otherwise it will burn too lean.

I see about 20 toyota turbo diesels and 100 toyota na diesel per day and there is no noticeable differnce to the eye in the amount of smoke they produce.

"I wouldn't be too bothered about the big black cloud when you put you foot down the chances your car is a import and it has a EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirclation) valve fitted to cut down on NoX which is part of the Jap MOT the only side effect of EGR valve is lots and lots of black smoke under load."

I find this a bit hard to swallow since Japan has some of the toughest anti pollution laws in the world.

I would say its more a case of Japanese owners letting the maintenance go as they know it wont be staying in Japan for much longer. Quite common on the imports

[stevetubbyturbo]

Ive just done some checking and i think i may have made an slight error in my thinking and Sandgroper is correct that the 98 japanese diesel import vehicle should smoke less as the pre 94 were not tested for smoke but for NOx and only vehicles after this cut of date were tested for smoke at a lot less than uk standards

See below

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/jp/onroad.html

I dont mind admiting when im wrong but i still feel that if lamb's car is still smoking whisps of white smoke but im wondering if he is really seeing greyish smoke at night ive been told this is perfectly normal

[Lamb]

An update!

Thanks for input so far. have just got car back from garage. turns out the problem was two fold.

Not 100% sure if i git this right but here goes;

Firstly, Idle speed valve (or something similar sounding) needed replacing.

Secondly a Cold Start Valve. Apparently this was injecting too much diesel all the time, hence the black smoke when pulling off.

Car seems much less smokey, and the gear change (or so it seemed) is resolved. perhaps it wasnt a jerky gear change after all, but an injection problem that gave the appearance of such?

Certainly if i still do a hard kick-down I will see a plume of black smoke in mirror, but when driving normally, none.

At night however, when driving normally if i look in rear view at car behind with headlights, I still see a haze, but during day, I cant see anything.

Had my brother drive behind me today (during daylight though), and he didnt notice anything apart from small puffs when first climbing a hill, but nowt thereafter.

Does this sound plausible to those in the know?

Thanks!