Toyota Rav 4-3 Xtr Diesel 2.2

[john1944]

I have an 09 Rav diesel, and a Bailey Pageant Sries 7 Provence. I have been trying to find out what the maximum nose weight is on the Rav with a Toyota detachable tow bar fitted. As my caravan stands in my drive, with 2 full 6 kg (net) gas bottles in the front locker, and a few other odds and ends in the front locker, it appears to be holding a nose weight of around 130 kg, which I guess is a bit high, even though when coupled the unit looks absolutely perfect. With my neigbour standing in the back area of the caravan the noseweight decreases in ratio to his weight.

What information can any one give me please.

Regards John

[Bezzer]

You're waayyy too high, max towbar load on the 4.3 is listed at 80kg if you look in the handbook it tells you there. You're going to have to move some stuff around inside to get the loading right and lose that 50kg. Not trying to teach granny to suck eggs but Calorlite bottles or better still BP light would be a start, make sure you have the heavier items over the axle area then you can experiment with movng other bits backward to lose the noseweight. Take it you're measuring it right - on a level surface with the van at normal hitch-ride height.

[valeite]

You're waayyy too high, max towbar load on the 4.3 is listed at 80kg if you look in the handbook it tells you there. You're going to have to move some stuff around inside to get the loading right and lose that 50kg. Not trying to teach granny to suck eggs but Calorlite bottles or better still BP light would be a start, make sure you have the heavier items over the axle area then you can experiment with movng other bits backward to lose the noseweight. Take it you're measuring it right - on a level surface with the van at normal hitch-ride height.

ditto

[john1944]

You're waayyy too high, max towbar load on the 4.3 is listed at 80kg if you look in the handbook it tells you there. You're going to have to move some stuff around inside to get the loading right and lose that 50kg. Not trying to teach granny to suck eggs but Calorlite bottles or better still BP light would be a start, make sure you have the heavier items over the axle area then you can experiment with movng other bits backward to lose the noseweight. Take it you're measuring it right - on a level surface with the van at normal hitch-ride height.

ditto

Yes I will have to do that. What would the consequences of driving the unit with such an excessive nose weight. I have already driven 200 miles like that; there were no problems at all, the unit was level, stable and the drive was perfect. I am told by the Toyota franchise that the maximum weight the bar is capable of supporting is 1018 kg; so where are the problems going to emerge please.

Regards John

[valeite]

Wow 1018kgs (1 tonne)! :o Your front wheels would be in the air.!! The hand book says 80Kg the manufactuter of my towbay says 80kg. The shock loadings of course would be higher!

If you had an accident would your insurance be valid? Get the dealer to put it in writing. I also think the Alko chassis nose weight is 100Kg Max.

Who is your Dealer I will stay away. :(

[john1944]

Wow 1018kgs (1 tonne)! Your front wheels would be in the air.!! The hand book says 80Kg the manufactuter of my towbay says 80kg. The shock loadings of course would be higher!

If you had an accident would your insurance be valid? Get the dealer to put it in writing. I also think the Alko chassis nose weight is 100Kg Max.

Thank very much

[Bezzer]

Yes I will have to do that. What would the consequences of driving the unit with such an excessive nose weight. I have already driven 200 miles like that; there were no problems at all, the unit was level, stable and the drive was perfect. I am told by the Toyota franchise that the maximum weight the bar is capable of supporting is 1018 kg; so where are the problems going to emerge please.

Regards John

The 80kg noseweight is a static weight, once you're on the move the load varies all the time and is considerably more and less as it moves up and down depending on the conditions and there are added forces at work as it also moves back and forwards tugging the whole weight of the caravan. Going way above the Toyota recommended noseweight would cause undue stress, not saying it's going to fail on you but the possibility is there over time. Dunno what they're on about with the 1018kg it has no relevance really, supporting that weight is totally different to being on the move, you're van weighs more than that don't forget. I've found that dealers staff have no idea of towing practice and law unless you happen to drop on an actual caravan owner. Mine didn't even know why you had to have a removeable towbar on a Rav4 with a spare on the back - obscures the registration plate and there's loads of instances where towbars are wired incorrectly- some circuits missing as they don't cater for vans unless specifially told.

Final thing is that the noseweight is a legal limit, if you get stopped and checked- VOSA do get out and about in caravanning "hotspots" during the season- then you are illegal, they wouldn't bother with minor transgressions but over 50% over the limit and you'd be struggling to get out of it.

[john1944]

Yes I will have to do that. What would the consequences of driving the unit with such an excessive nose weight. I have already driven 200 miles like that; there were no problems at all, the unit was level, stable and the drive was perfect. I am told by the Toyota franchise that the maximum weight the bar is capable of supporting is 1018 kg; so where are the problems going to emerge please.

Regards John

The 80kg noseweight is a static weight, once you're on the move the load varies all the time and is considerably more and less as it moves up and down depending on the conditions and there are added forces at work as it also moves back and forwards tugging the whole weight of the caravan. Going way above the Toyota recommended noseweight would cause undue stress, not saying it's going to fail on you but the possibility is there over time. Dunno what they're on about with the 1018kg it has no relevance really, supporting that weight is totally different to being on the move, you're van weighs more than that don't forget. I've found that dealers staff have no idea of towing practice and law unless you happen to drop on an actual caravan owner. Mine didn't even know why you had to have a removeable towbar on a Rav4 with a spare on the back - obscures the registration plate and there's loads of instances where towbars are wired incorrectly- some circuits missing as they don't cater for vans unless specifially told.

Final thing is that the noseweight is a legal limit, if you get stopped and checked- VOSA do get out and about in caravanning "hotspots" during the season- then you are illegal, they wouldn't bother with minor transgressions but over 50% over the limit and you'd be struggling to get out of it.

Thanks for your comments. I find it very hard to understand why a car like a Rav, four wheel drive, and a 2231 diesel engine should have such a low nose weight limit. I am carrying two full 6 kg. gas bottles in the front locker, would you for starters recommend transferring one of them to the inside rear area of the van; this should effectively reduce the nose weight by twice the mass of the bottle; is that correct. John

[Bezzer]

Thanks for your comments. I find it very hard to understand why a car like a Rav, four wheel drive, and a 2231 diesel engine should have such a low nose weight limit. I am carrying two full 6 kg. gas bottles in the front locker, would you for starters recommend transferring one of them to the inside rear area of the van; this should effectively reduce the nose weight by twice the mass of the bottle; is that correct. John

80kg isn't particularly low, I'd bet that the vast majority of caravanners run with 75kg or less, it's the larger 4x4s that usually have the high limits . Noseweight is only really restricted by the rear suspension and what the manufacturer decides it's vehicle will safely take. Engine power, 4WD etc have no bearing on noseweight just on the max permitted tow weight they can pull. Some vans have a very high noseweight to start with and take carefull loading to get down to the limits, there are no hard and fast rules as everyone loads up with different items, moving a gas bottle from front to back would have some bearing but you'd have to be weighing the hitch at each step to see how it's progressing. You're putting weight either side of a pivot/fulcrum (the axle) so it all depends how far from the axle for each item/weight as to by how much it affects the noseweight.

[local hero]

I have an 09 Rav diesel, and a Bailey Pageant Sries 7 Provence. I have been trying to find out what the maximum nose weight is on the Rav with a Toyota detachable tow bar fitted. As my caravan stands in my drive, with 2 full 6 kg (net) gas bottles in the front locker, and a few other odds and ends in the front locker, it appears to be holding a nose weight of around 130 kg, which I guess is a bit high, even though when coupled the unit looks absolutely perfect. With my neigbour standing in the back area of the caravan the noseweight decreases in ratio to his weight.

What information can any one give me please.

Regards John

John forgive me if i am wrong but i assume you are new to caravaning A friend of mine did a one day course which included all safety aspects, reversing (using your own car + THEIR bailey pageant) how to load the van to achieve correct nose weight, and making all connections (water, electrics, waste etc, plus a lot of other useful tips, like using hand signals to guide someone when hitching up.. I think it was around £150 + this particular one was near Preston, I can find out specifics if you are interested? he reckons it was money well spent And has given him the confidence to tour Holland in his brand new KIA + HYMER? van, obviously the caravan club is also a good source of info..

[Bezzer]

Could have been a Caravan Club Course, they do a one dayer for those who want a bit more experience with manouevering only and a one and a half dayer for the beginner (£80 and £95). The one and a half day course covers all the basics of loading and setting up together with a fair bit of practical manouevering with your vehicle and their van. Did one a couple of years ago and well worth the money, details are on the CC site, there are centres around the country.

A few caravan dealers do their own similar days, N.Staffs caravan near me do one that is around £150, probably similar to the one Local Hero's mate did.

[john1944]

Could have been a Caravan Club Course, they do a one dayer for those who want a bit more experience with manouevering only and a one and a half dayer for the beginner (£80 and £95). The one and a half day course covers all the basics of loading and setting up together with a fair bit of practical manouevering with your vehicle and their van. Did one a couple of years ago and well worth the money, details are on the CC site, there are centres around the country.

A few caravan dealers do their own similar days, N.Staffs caravan near me do one that is around £150, probably similar to the one Local Hero's mate did.

Thanks for your advice. I am new to modern day caravaning, apart from a brief period a few years ago. But I did tow a Sprite Alpine back in the 70's behind my beloved VW1300 beetle. These were the days beofre motor movers, electricity, toilets and stabilisers. Nose weight was only a problem to alcoholics. I feel confident in every aspect of towing, other than this particular issue. By removing one full gas bottle from the front locker, tools, and other odds and ends, and placing them inside the van at the very back, I have managed to reduce the nose weight to 90kg. When loaded with our kit, strategically placed, I expect it will be possible to achieve a 80 kg. figure. However, with all this stuff loaded at the rear, I am wondering what effect there will be on stability ? One other interesting point, apparently the Rav has a limit of 80kg nose weight somewhere in the hand book, yet my Toyota tow bar clearly has a S 90 figure stamped on it. I assume this is the nose weight figure.

Shall look forward to your further comments, for which many thanks. John

[valeite]

Hi John,

Having too much weight at the back of the caravan can cause a pendulum effect. I have a year 2000 Bailey Pageant and have two gas bottles in the locker.

My tools travel in the car. I place my awning, leisure chairs and electric hook up lead over the caravan axle but slightly to the rear of the van to achieve the nose weight.

A good forum below to join where there are a number of people only too willing to give knowledgeable caravan information.

http://www.caravantalk.org.uk/

[john1944]

Hi John,

Having too much weight at the back of the caravan can cause a pendulum effect. I have a year 2000 Bailey Pageant and have two gas bottles in the locker.

My tools travel in the car. I place my awning, leisure chairs and electric hook up lead over the caravan axle but slightly to the rear of the van to achieve the nose weight.

A good forum below to join where there are a number of people only too willing to give knowledgeable caravan information.

http://www.caravantalk.org.uk/

Seems I have being using the wrong procedure for measuring nose weight. Putting the scales under the Jockey wheel is wrong, I should have been weighing at the tow hitch, using scales and a piece of wood !!!