Right Choice?..genii, Phase 2

[cootuk]

I'm a new member here as I currently run an old Volvo 850 estate.

Fuel consumption is starting to kill me - we get 23mpg round town and I would say the majority (80%+) of our driving is within city limits. Monthly fuel costs are now 90pm, as well as road tax of 200pa and a new set of front tyres every year (these cars are very heavy on the front tyres). Speed bumps round here also kill the drop links quite quickly.

Our 850 is now 14 years old, 200k miles, and parts are reaching the end of their life. She's been a good workhorse, but expensive over her lifetime once you factor new exhaust, new brake discs, 600 quid for a clutch change (the engine has to be dropped out).

Annual mileage is about 8000 mile.

Our usual drive routes are 2mile, 5mile, and 10 mile each way trips...virtually all in 30/40mph zones.

We're looking for a larger family car - think Focus size.

My wife tried a Fiat Panda for size and we almost needed a crowbar to jemmy her out..so that rules out most smaller cars.

We do like a decent boot size for taking things like hedge trimmings to the dump and stuff from Ikea (yes, i admit it..)

We think that a diesel with a dpf would clog up as we hardly ever do a decent run.

An older diesel could be ok.

From my thinking the Prius was really aimed at our sort of driving...lots of low speed, stop start etc

We have a budget of up to 7k so would be looking at 55/06 with 70-80k on the clock.

This would give us at least 2 or 3 years still under warranty.

I don't have a problem with the mileage but would prefer some warranty just in case.

Just a few questions:

1) we know the facelift (is it called Gen II, Phase 2 or something else) came out around 55/06 and can be recognised by the 'hybrid' decal above the side indicator - have any dealers cottoned onto this and added the decal to older versions as there are non-phase2 55 models out there.

2) What concerns me most is snow - we have read the stories of loss of drive when 'computer says no' - was this sorted?

Is there a preferred tyre? Would something like an autosock work for snowy days? How wide spread is this problem...a few oversensitive sensors or every one?

3) How easy are these to adapt to psychologically?..like remembering the car can move without the engine running?

We garage the car so could imagine ignition on, no ICE, blip the throttle and shoot forward into the garage doors!

4) Apart from Toyota main dealers, have any specialist companies sprung up dealing in used Prius as they are fairly unique?

5) Whats the attitude of other drivers like? To me a car is a car and most people use it as a tool from A-B. I think my enjoyment of driving died many years ago when i moved to a city. I think too many people buy into the car mag image of driving round racetracks screeching etc Do other drivers love or loathe Prius when out and about?

[timberwolf]

Welcome.

Your shortest trips are going to be the mpg killer, as the Prius engine will barely have had time to warm up. I mostly do short 6-7 mile trips and my mpg has varied between 60 mpg in the summer down to 47 mpg in the winter. I've never really driven to maximize mpg before buying the Prius, but I try to do it most of the time and I am sure I've still got lots to learn. My annual mileage doesn't really warrant worrying about fuel costs, so I do it as a game, and I suspect I may have annoyed the odd motorist, although it is really difficult to tell.

1) Don't know.

2) The traction control was slightly tweaked for the 06-onwards. It is a feature of the Prius, some claim that it is there to protect the hybrid drive. I've read good things about the Michelin and Nokian brands, but I don't recall the tyre names.

3) It is like driving an automatic (albeit with a very light accelerator pedal action) and it has been designed to include the "creep" feature of regular auto boxes.

4) Don't know.

5) It doesn't matter what you drive, there are too many aggressive and impatient motorists on the road.

[Sagitar]

3) How easy are these to adapt to psychologically?..like remembering the car can move without the engine running?

We garage the car so could imagine ignition on, no ICE, blip the throttle and shoot forward into the garage doors!

If you do what you describe above then absolutely nothing will happen. You not only need to press the start button, but you also need to put it in gear - either forward or reverse - before it will move. Switching off the power automatically puts the car into neutral, so you cannot start it in gear.

5) Whats the attitude of other drivers like? To me a car is a car and most people use it as a tool from A-B. I think my enjoyment of driving died many years ago when i moved to a city. I think too many people buy into the car mag image of driving round racetracks screeching etc Do other drivers love or loathe Prius when out and about?

Most people on the road know nothing about the Prius. In my experience, other road users respond to the way that I drive, not the vehicle that I am in.

[cootuk]

When the weather gets better then the short journey will probably be less frequent as my wife will cycle for the exercise, though any car will have the same warm-up time and poorer mpg. We live part way up a hill and virtually all our trips start off downhill so, once out of the garage on electric only, will have a good section to get the Battery fully charged up. Even 45mpg is cutting our fuel use in half.

I think it's the trepidation of something that's going to become mainstream in a few years. Lots of manufacturers now have stop/start, and a few are bringing out regenerative braking so I think attitudes to this will mellow as more people get it as standard. I was brought up on points, dwell angles, and drum brakes so computerised everything is a little disconcerting. Fear of the unknown as usual as I'm the one that has to get any car problems sorted.

Looking around then there are 2006 t3 with 80k miles for just over 6k.

There seem to be a lot of T Spirits for just over 7k coming ex-fleet now.

I'm not worried about inbuilt sat nav as long as I get an aux socket I can run a sat nav off.

Leather might be nice but not essential.

Reversing camera would be pretty neat given the limited rear visibility.

Looks like I might have to find a couple of companies that deal in ex-fleet sales. There are at least a couple on a well known auction site that definitely do Prius, and I've got time to wait for the right one to come along.

[benw123]

1) we know the facelift (is it called Gen II, Phase 2 or something else) came out around 55/06 and can be recognised by the 'hybrid' decal above the side indicator - have any dealers cottoned onto this and added the decal to older versions as there are non-phase2 55 models out there.

Regarding this query, the other distinguishing feature is the completely clear rear tail lights. Those prior to the facelift have a tinted band across the brake light at the top of the cluster; on later models, the brake light is totally clear.

I also believe the facelift introduced the soft-touch dashboard which is also a clue. Other than that, there's virtually no differences between the two - other than tweaks to the rear suspension - because the the Prius specification remained pretty constant through out its life.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

When the weather gets better then the short journey will probably be less frequent as my wife will cycle for the exercise, though any car will have the same warm-up time and poorer mpg. We live part way up a hill and virtually all our trips start off downhill so, once out of the garage on electric only, will have a good section to get the battery fully charged up. Even 45mpg is cutting our fuel use in half.

I think it's the trepidation of something that's going to become mainstream in a few years. Lots of manufacturers now have stop/start, and a few are bringing out regenerative braking so I think attitudes to this will mellow as more people get it as standard. I was brought up on points, dwell angles, and drum brakes so computerised everything is a little disconcerting. Fear of the unknown as usual as I'm the one that has to get any car problems sorted.

Looking around then there are 2006 t3 with 80k miles for just over 6k.

There seem to be a lot of T Spirits for just over 7k coming ex-fleet now.

I'm not worried about inbuilt sat nav as long as I get an aux socket I can run a sat nav off.

Leather might be nice but not essential.

Reversing camera would be pretty neat given the limited rear visibility.

Looks like I might have to find a couple of companies that deal in ex-fleet sales. There are at least a couple on a well known auction site that definitely do Prius, and I've got time to wait for the right one to come along.

First off, I've just bought a new Prius for use as a cab just down the road from you in Harrogate. I'll be honest with you, the Prius was the 'wild card' option, but once I had taken a test drive I was smitten. I mean, 50+mpg round town without really trying!!! I understand all your concerns as I had them too. I'd seriously recommend a test drive - Knaresborough Toyota have a few Gen2's at your price range. I would also be tempted to stick to main dealers considering how technically different the Prius is, but it's your choice. I do understand your concern regarding the Prius and having lived with mine for a week now (not long I know) and have got used to it and its little quirks. I love the keyless entry but not sure about just pressing a button to start it only having a 'Ready' light to tell you you're free to go - silence with no engine noise* (see below). Just remember its made by Toyota so will have had hundreds of Japanese engineers working on its design and reliability. If Rover (bless 'em lol) had made a hybrid I'd have stayed well clear!

*One thing I have noticed is that when you start the car in the morning from cold it will start the engine pretty much straight away regardless of your speed. I think this is so it can warm the engine (and provide heat for the heater?) first. It does warm up pretty quickly though and it really will be happiest in town traffic - the heavier the traffic the better The EV (fully electric) mode is cool and great fun to impress the neighbours but isn't really meant for extended use.

The weekend is upon us so would be an ideal opportunity to take one for a test drive ;) but don't forget to take your driving licence and don't forget to let us all know how it went :D

[timberwolf]

When the weather gets better then the short journey will probably be less frequent as my wife will cycle for the exercise, though any car will have the same warm-up time and poorer mpg. We live part way up a hill and virtually all our trips start off downhill so, once out of the garage on electric only, will have a good section to get the battery fully charged up. Even 45mpg is cutting our fuel use in half.

Sorry if some of my posts are negative, but if it was me, I would want to have a realistic worst case mpg figure - although I'm not sure if mine is a typical figure. :)

In Winter, keeping the cabin warm or the windows clear will result in the petrol engine running more often.

EV mode isn't always available when you want it, the Prius decides whether it will let you have EV mode and there is a long list of exceptions, paraphrasing from the Owner's manual:

Hybrid system too hot.

Hybrid system too cold.

Engine Warm up.

Hybrid Battery charge <= 3 bars.

Speed about 28 mph or more.

Not being gentle with the accelerator.

Slopes (I assume they when going up hill)

With the Gen 2, the petrol engine starts around about 10 seconds after Power on to Ready. If you press the EV button before the petrol engine fires up, then you can delay going into the Engine warm up phase.

[cootuk]

I guess what I really meant to imply was that we wouldn't be labouring the ICE straight away, just enough to get onto the main road then you could almost coast downhill once you get going. As other people say, I would rather let the electronics do their thing with the Battery and ICE than force EV, unless only moving a few yards to park up.

I think we might be looking to really buy after xmas as I'm rather packed out with stuff until then, and the MOT/tax is due - always a good excuse as the residual value of the car doesn't make it worth spending too much on. Parting bits out for scrap would raise more.

Time spent browsing what's available and familiarising myself with what I'm looking at is worth it right now to get a feel for what we can afford.

The TOC membership with free AA cover look excellent value btw to change the subject slightly.

A bit of added value given we pay that much for a cheaper service by local garages.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I guess what I really meant to imply was that we wouldn't be labouring the ICE straight away, just enough to get onto the main road then you could almost coast downhill once you get going. As other people say, I would rather let the electronics do their thing with the battery and ICE than force EV, unless only moving a few yards to park up.

I think we might be looking to really buy after xmas as I'm rather packed out with stuff until then, and the MOT/tax is due - always a good excuse as the residual value of the car doesn't make it worth spending too much on. Parting bits out for scrap would raise more.

Time spent browsing what's available and familiarising myself with what I'm looking at is worth it right now to get a feel for what we can afford.

The TOC membership with free AA cover look excellent value btw to change the subject slightly.

A bit of added value given we pay that much for a cheaper service by local garages.

I know everyone has their own financial constraints/commitments etc but what about buying new? The Volvo you have should allow a £2000 discount under the scrappage scheme? You could buy over 5 years to reduce the monthly amount, maybe go on one of those plans that offset some of the cost to help reduce the monthly payments? The mileage you do should really help here in lowering the monthly cost. The lack of road tax on the Gen3 will save you £16 a month - not a lot but would help offset the monthly payments, along with the reduced fuel costs. No MOT costs, no replacement parts ie clutches, suspension parts, broken a/c etc etc.

Worth checking out as I'm sure new won't be much more than £8000 on a loan. Do check out the different dealers though as I was quoted a difference of £70 A MONTH between the best and worst monthly costs.

[timberwolf]

Do you mean TOC membership or Club Toyota membership? My renewal letter for the latter said it was with the RAC.

[cootuk]

You're right...RAC. Seems a good deal.

I would get the car serviced at a Toyota main dealer given their fixed price servicing and the oddity of the hybrid system.

That would be my next query after buying one....Toyota Bradford, Leeds, Halifax, or Huddersfield...though that's a question for the future.

I know with Volvo you can go to the main dealer and they can pull up the entire service history of a car that's been done at any main dealer, will Toyota do the same?

I was looking at carsite.co.uk that get cars direct from fleet then advertise them on before they are physically handed back.

A 2006 T3/T4 with around 80k miles for around 6500 pounds seems reasonable.

(Looks like their latest 2006 T3 just went after being on listing for a day.)

[cootuk]

I went to West Riding Motor Group in Bradford today - very quiet in the showroom with just one guy picking up a Prius.

I basically asked whether they got in any higher mileage cars as most of theirs are outside my £7k budget.

After a decent chat they rang round and found a 2006 T3 with 83000 miles which they could prep as an approved car for around £8k.

A bit outside my budget, but they said they could look at trading in my Volvo (£100 official trade in value).

I was surprised by how well the Prius drove - very good pickup and smooth. Wife happy too.

There was no rush and they certainly went the extra mile to see we understood the automatic side and how easy these are to drive.

The engine started up nicely, and there was the usual parking button 'rock'.

Now here's the rub - once we were back they said they would rather sell me a car from their stock than buy another car in.

Given theirs start around £9k then that looked not very likely.

The offers?

For £7-8k from autotrader we could get a 2006 T3/T4 with 80000+ miles and a warranty - say 5yrs @ 150pm for a loan.

Or we could get an approved 2006 T3 from them, 83000 miles, for 159pm..and a generous trade in value

Interestingly they have a 2006 T3 for about £9500 with 32000miles....at 180pm... and a magnificent trade in value.

Right now we're sleeping on it overnight as they certainly worked hard to give us some choices.

(we're not too bothered about the cd-changer and JBL Speakers on the T4)

[timberwolf]

While you are weighing up the different high mileage vehicles, find out about the 90,000 mile service, I think it is a really big one where lots of vital fluids get changed... ?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I went to West Riding Motor Group in Bradford today - very quiet in the showroom with just one guy picking up a Prius.

I basically asked whether they got in any higher mileage cars as most of theirs are outside my £7k budget.

After a decent chat they rang round and found a 2006 T3 with 83000 miles which they could prep as an approved car for around £8k.

A bit outside my budget, but they said they could look at trading in my Volvo (£100 official trade in value).

I was surprised by how well the Prius drove - very good pickup and smooth. Wife happy too.

There was no rush and they certainly went the extra mile to see we understood the automatic side and how easy these are to drive.

The engine started up nicely, and there was the usual parking button 'rock'.

Now here's the rub - once we were back they said they would rather sell me a car from their stock than buy another car in.

Given theirs start around £9k then that looked not very likely.

The offers?

For £7-8k from autotrader we could get a 2006 T3/T4 with 80000+ miles and a warranty - say 5yrs @ 150pm for a loan.

Or we could get an approved 2006 T3 from them, 83000 miles, for 159pm..and a generous trade in value

Interestingly they have a 2006 T3 for about £9500 with 32000miles....at 180pm... and a magnificent trade in value.

Right now we're sleeping on it overnight as they certainly worked hard to give us some choices.

(we're not too bothered about the cd-changer and JBL speakers on the T4)

Glad you liked the car. Once you've driven one it's hard not to be smitten. I went to West Riding in Bradford when I was looking and they also offered me £100 trade in for my old car :( but I got significantly more elsewhere and with lower payments too. I know they're close to you are they are quite a friendly place, but I would always check out the competition and play them off against each other. Remember it's a recession we're in ;)

[cootuk]

WRMG offered to drop the £9500 purchase price to £9190 for their vehicle as sales guy said it had 32000miles, but has 42000.

Then £900 trade in value, plus personal plates transferred for free, plus next full service done, plus MOT done now...and issued as a Toyota Approved vehicle so also get a years warranty worth another few hundred quid if I bought elsewhere. Plus the usual Toyota package of breakdown cover etc

Seems like a deal...and I'll get 6 months tax back on the Volvo eventually, so another 100 quid.

<edit>

Done and dusted.

Gen II, T3, 2006....as soon as the personal plates get swapped by the DVLA

http://www.wrmg-toyota.co.uk/ftpfeed/YH06DNN1.jpg