Rav4 D4D 2.2 Battery Probs

August 29, 2010

Hi all I'm a new poster here. I was hoping that I could get some help with some probs I'm having with my 2006 RAV4 Diesel 2.2.

Recently the Battery died after 3 years use. The car was left stranded & I had to get a lift to a Toyota dealer to buy a new Battery. I was assured by the dealer that the Battery he sold me waas the correct size & power - when I got it back to car it wasn't. Since I was stuck I used it anyway. Its rated at 77A (I think, no real idea about electrics). Car started fine & I noted that the poor starting I had experienced in the run up to the battery failure was fixed. I also noted something else was fixed, more about this later.

After about 4-5 weeks I have noted that the poor starting (i.e. engine cranks for 20-25 secs ) has returned. I bought a battery charger & tried to recharge the old battery thinking maybe that there was an alternator problem & this was responsible for the battery failure, but its definitely dead. I then recharged the new battery & refitted it. Car starting performance has returned to normal. So I'm guessing that the battery is not being charged, or that I'm not doing enough miles to charge it up or that the new battery is too low a rating for the car & there's not enough of a reserve in the battery to cope with the numerous short trips. Before I Shell out for ANOTHER battery I'm wondering if I can easily check if the alternator is working to spec. The local Toyota dealer here is hopeless (I live between UK & France & I'm in France at the moment) So I want to try & diagnose the fault as best I can before taking the car in. I'm returning to UK on 19th September & I want no problems en-route.

I have a multimeter & was wondering if there was a simple test I can perform to check the alternator. Could anyone help ?

The other issue I have is that, along with the poor starting I have been experiencing, I have noted that gear selection was becoming difficult - but when I fitted the new battery this improved. I know this sounds odd, but is there some connection between battery power & gear selection ? I noticed an improvement right after fitting the new battery & then as the charge reduced in the battery gear selection got worse again - this morning its fine - with a newly charged battery !

The new battery I'm considering buying is rated at 85 with a cold start rating of 715 - any views on its suitability for the RAV 2.2 diesel ?

All help appreciated

Jeff

August 29, 2010

Nowthen Jeff - welcome to the club.

Don't buy another Battery just yet as there is something wrong here. Can you clarify what is happening. Do you mean that it cranks for 25-30 seconds and still won't fire or it cranks for that time and then won't turn it any more? If it cranks but won't start there is nothing wrong with the Battery. If it won't crank then there could be but you need to explain exactly what is happening. In answer to your other questions, the only way that the gearchange could be affected is if there is a major fault somewhere in the driveline that is caused by something siezing up (would also give the symptoms of a flat battery). Having said that, it is very very unusual for anything like that to happen and again you need to explain if there is definitely somthing wrong with the gear selection or if it could be your imagination.

To check if the Battery is being charged, set your meter to DC volts and connect it to your battery. It should show 10-12 volts. Then start it and it should rise to about 14-15V. If it does then there is probably nothing wrong with the system or the battery.

There is a chance that there could be air in the fuel causing to crank for a long time or the glow plugs are getting bggrd. Both of these are more likely to cause a problem with the engine cold or an overnight stand.

Just have a think and let us know.

August 30, 2010

Nowthen Jeff - welcome to the club.
Don't buy another battery just yet as there is something wrong here. Can you clarify what is happening. Do you mean that it cranks for 25-30 seconds and still won't fire or it cranks for that time and then won't turn it any more? If it cranks but won't start there is nothing wrong with the battery. If it won't crank then there could be but you need to explain exactly what is happening. In answer to your other questions, the only way that the gearchange could be affected is if there is a major fault somewhere in the driveline that is caused by something siezing up (would also give the symptoms of a flat battery). Having said that, it is very very unusual for anything like that to happen and again you need to explain if there is definitely somthing wrong with the gear selection or if it could be your imagination.
To check if the battery is being charged, set your meter to DC volts and connect it to your battery. It should show 10-12 volts. Then start it and it should rise to about 14-15V. If it does then there is probably nothing wrong with the system or the battery.
There is a chance that there could be air in the fuel causing to crank for a long time or the glow plugs are getting bggrd. Both of these are more likely to cause a problem with the engine cold or an overnight stand.
Just have a think and let us know.

Sorry not to be clear - with a fully charged Battery the car starts instantly. When it gets depleted it takes approx 20-30 secs of cranking to start it. I checked the voltage across the Battery terminals as instructed & the voltage goes up to just under 14 @ 2000rpm.

I know the gear change thing sounds crazy - & I did think it was my imagination the first time ! To be exact, third gear selection was difficult - I thought the syncromesh had gone on third, & I was double declutching to select third gear. With the new Battery third selected without probs. When the battery became depleted the gear selection deteriorated - I recharged it & its OK again ! Weird stuff !

I was reading a French RAV4 forum yesterday where it said that the correct rating for the RAV4 D2.2 was 90 - anything above would damage the alternator - is this correct ?

Its cold this morning so it will be interesting to see how well the car starts.

Many thanks for your help.

Jeff

August 30, 2010

Still not clear Jeff.

Are yo saying that the starter cranks the engine at normal speed for 20-30 seconds and then it starts or it cranks for 20-30 seconds then won't crank any more?

If it cranks for 20-30 seconds and then starts, I can assure you there is nothing wrong with the Battery or the one you threw away. The primary role of the Battery is to power the starter motor. As long as the starter motor cranks the engine both the Battery and the starter are doing the job they were designed for. If the engine turns and will not fire then there is something else wrong.

I don't know what information you have been reading about batteries but the one that was fitted on your car from new was made in Japan and there is nothing better. I can't get on my desktop computer because it is infected with a virus from some nasty vindictive individual with nothing better to do in life so I can't access my info but I doubt that there is an issue with your battery capacity as far as this issue is concerned. The Ah rating is all about cranking capacity and reserve power but in this case there is a seperate issue from what you have described.

The tests you have done with a voltmeter only say if the alternater is charging. The proper test for a battery is a deep discharge or "drop test". This can be done by most dealers, tyre and battery centre's or good spares shop.

Does it do this problem hot and cold? Is it worse after an overnight stand?

August 30, 2010

Still not clear Jeff.
Are yo saying that the starter cranks the engine at normal speed for 20-30 seconds and then it starts or it cranks for 20-30 seconds then won't crank any more?
If it cranks for 20-30 seconds and then starts, I can assure you there is nothing wrong with the battery or the one you threw away. The primary role of the battery is to power the starter motor. As long as the starter motor cranks the engine both the battery and the starter are doing the job they were designed for. If the engine turns and will not fire then there is something else wrong.
I don't know what information you have been reading about batteries but the one that was fitted on your car from new was made in Japan and there is nothing better. I can't get on my desktop computer because it is infected with a virus from some nasty vindictive individual with nothing better to do in life so I can't access my info but I doubt that there is an issue with your battery capacity as far as this issue is concerned. The Ah rating is all about cranking capacity and reserve power but in this case there is a seperate issue from what you have described.
The tests you have done with a voltmeter only say if the alternater is charging. The proper test for a battery is a deep discharge or "drop test". This can be done by most dealers, tyre and battery centre's or good spares shop.
Does it do this problem hot and cold? Is it worse after an overnight stand?

The issue I have is that the new Battery seems to be losing its charge (or is not being charged). When fully charged the car starts immediately, over time start times increase (i.e. the crank time required to start the engine increases) until the Battery is so depleted that it wont start the RAV4. If I recharge it with a Battery charger all is well for a while & then the cycle starts again.The old battery was definitely dead - I recharged it several times & It would not hold a charge. What I'm trying to figure out is whether the problem is that the battery is under capacity (77Ah vs 85-90Ah) or whether my driving pattern (short trips mostly) is the cause. Or maybe the combination of the two.

My reasoning as follows a higher capacity battery will cope better with lots of short trips than one with less capacity. I've no idea if this is true or not !

Thanks for helping

Jeff

It starts better when hot than cold.

August 30, 2010

the battery is so depleted that it wont start the RAV4

You mean the engine will not turn at all?

The reason I am labouring this point Jeff is because the info you have given me so far indicates it is charging and for the purpose of starting the engine, the capacity is likely to have very little bearing on it. It is only likely to be important is if say you left it with the lights on for a good number of hours and then tried to start it in cold weather.

As I still don't know if the engine turns but will not fire, my concern is whther you have a Battery problem at all or whether you are flattening the batery trying. It is most unlikely that your driving style has anything to do with it as the alternator is maore than capable os replenishing the Battery during even very short journies in winter with the lights and heater on providing the car starts normally. You see, providing the car is working as it should, it should start even in the depths of winter almost immediately. If you are having to crank it for half a minute there is something very wrong and the fact that you CAN crank it leads me to believe it is probably not your Battery. I think you are after a red herring!!!