Double Declutching

[dave5282]

Its quiite amazing (well amazes me at least) how the power for accelaration is still instantly there when you use left foot braking.

[yannick]

Its quiite amazing (well amazes me at least) how the power for accelaration is still instantly there when you use left foot braking.

I used it mainly for destabalising the car on an approach to a tight corner, combined with the pendulum effect. The necessity was to keep the power down at the front, while intentionally losing grip at the back.

As you said it avoids dropping in the revs (especially important when you have a turbo, which I didn't).

It is essentially a FWD technique (developped by the Swedes IIRC), and I know that it works in 4WD cars, but I don't think that it works in RWD?

[hachi-roku]

I think it's called a scandinavian flick, though I may be thinking of something else.

It's very much used on rwd cars, especially for drifting I think for initiating a feint drift.

[yannick]

I think it's called a scandinavian flick, though I may be thinking of something else.

It's very much used on rwd cars, especially for drifting I think for initiating a feint drift.

Left foot braking theoretically should have no effect on RWD cars. There you need to give a boot of the accelerator.

[ZeroBlade]

left foot braking as far as i knew was an FF car technique as it allowed the rear to lose traction. its a decent tech imo tho, i think it originated from some rally driver, not 100% sure tho.

And yannick as you said in a post before that on an auto u tend to use ur left foot to brake, i do the exact same thing, heh.

-Z

[Funkadelic]

I believe that a Scandi' flick is where you sharply turn the wheel slightly to one side, destabilising the car, then snap it back the other way before the car has a chance to settle, resulting in serious weight transferral from one side of the car to the other, getting it sideways.

I've never had much cause for it on the public road, as I find a bit of power oversteer is perfectly adequate in the '2!

[yannick]

I believe that a Scandi' flick is where you sharply turn the wheel slightly to one side, destabilising the car, then snap it back the other way before the car has a chance to settle, resulting in serious weight transferral from one side of the car to the other, getting it sideways.

I've never had much cause for it on the public road, as I find a bit of power oversteer is perfectly adequate in the '2!

I'm not sure if that is the Scandinavian flick, but I learnt that technique under the name "pendulum effect". It is very effective, but you've got to have a car that is predicable in oversteer.

[yannick]

i think it originated from some rally driver, not 100% sure tho.

IIRC it was Erik "on the roof" Carlsson in his days in SAAB 92s. At the time the 2-stroke engine had to be kept on the boil.

Just for those who are interested, Erik "on the roof" Carlsson got his reputation for the following incident:

Erik got his reputation when he and his co-driver Gunnar Palm had been stuck in the mud in the SAFARI-RALLY 1964.

They walked out of the car, rolled it a few times on the roof and then they went on driving. The news spread fast to the finish line and the people wanted to see the rolling act again, so they did it one more time. The winners didn´t want to be worse, so they also tried to roll their car over , but their car with a flat roof became a trap and their car got stuck on the roof which, needless to say, was quite embarrassing for the winners.

Quote from History -The #1 online Saab museum!

[Karma Supra]

AS my gearbox is shagged on my car I find I double declutch a lot to get smooth changes.. also the throttle blip sounds sooooooo nice with the roof off

I've had a new gearbox since last summer just not got around to fitting it with the "other problems" I've been having :arrgg-matey:

[Karma Supra]

Incidently as far as I know Scandinavian flick, and "pendulum effect". are the same thing with a different name... works very effectively with a long wheelbase RWD car ;).. its how I smacked a wheel into one of my arches with the sudden body roll tho

I only toe to heal for hill starts when I'm too lazy to use the handbrake, or "power boosting", putting the engine under load to get the turbos up to boost before you launch -very effective unless you over cook it.. then you just spin your wheels and look like a plonker!

[yannick]

Incidently as far as I know Scandinavian flick, and "pendulum effect". are the same thing with a different name... works very effectively with a long wheelbase RWD car

Thanx for the confirmation. In a RWD car you always have the option to boot it into power oversteer. In FWD car we have to try every trick in the book One of the reasons I prefer RWD

[Karma Supra]

Its true but combine a bit of this and a bit of that and it all comes together... 9" wide rear rims need persuasion to break away :)

since I was 17 I have only had RWD cars. recently I have got into my runaround (probe) which is hardly a benchmark of FWD excellence.. I hate it FWD feels so numb and lifeless compared to RWD!! its a totally different style and I'll confess I cannot drive it to save my life!!

Its just so wrong.

Unfortunately we are in the "FWD generation" now. these days it seems next to no one can handlea RWD car, thats why MR2's have been branded "dangerous" becasue idiots get into them and wonder why the back overtakes the front!!

my next goal is mid engined RWD (even tho I breifly had an MR2 a couple of years back it never got used and was soon sold, was mainly bought to sell) I also prefer a but more bulk to a car.. don't ask why I just do.. just need something big, jap, mid engined and RWD ;) ;) :)

[yannick]

Its true but combine a bit of this and a bit of that and it all comes together... 9" wide rear rims need persuasion to break away :)

Something like a 427 V8?

I hate it FWD feels so numb and lifeless compared to RWD!! its a totally different style and I'll confess I cannot drive it to save my life!!

Its just so wrong.

I learnt to Rally in a SAAB - probably the best balanced FWD car I've driven. I must admit that most FWD are programmed for safety... i.e. underteer. I am glad to report that the latest generation Avensis is a fairly well balanced car which behaves itself quite well.

my next goal is mid engined RWD (even tho I breifly had an MR2 a couple of years back it never got used and was soon sold, was mainly bought to sell) I also prefer a but more bulk to a  car.. don't ask why I just do.. just need something big, jap, mid engined and RWD ;) ;) :)

Something like...

an NSX?

[Karma Supra]

How DID you guess

:D :D :D

I must admit I used to drive an MG metro. its was a horrid little rover :censor: box.. it had no grip at all, zero roadholding...

However it is still to this day one of the most fun cars to chuck about and genrally thrash around... maybe part of that is you know if you wrote it off its only £250, but you could happily throw it into a 4 wheel drift, and always somehow come out of it, very forgiving to drive.. was totally different to my previous austin metro, even tho it was essentially the same car. (complete with big MG graphics. :D )

People usually laugh when

I say it was a fun car.. but hey :!Removed!:

[hachi-roku]

My first car was my 86... picked because it's RWD... I had to drive a corsa as a courtesy car... my god they are soooooo boring.

I have friends who have FWD cars, they drive like hooligans, if I drive like that in a rwd car I will be seriously punished for it, far less forgiving, and FAAAR more fun :)

All personal opinion though, all have their benifits :)

[pizza boy]

Ye I also double declutch everytime I kick down, just a major good habit ive got. It always feels great when you down shift and match the revs perfectly to the gearing...super smooth engagement..zero lurch. Its an art for deffo and easy to master...all you have to do is know what revs a gear would produce relative to the mph. You will naturally figure it out to a T.

I cringe sooooo bad when I ride passenger in m8s cars and see em kick down and feel thier cars lurch majorly. Only one other m8 has started doing double declutching after I showed him how easy it is. The rest are just cr@p heh.

[Scot]

Heel and toe on a track, can mean the few split seconds between first and second place. However, it does mean that you carry alot more speed through the twisties and can feel a little odd at first!

It also means you dont lock the back wheels up when trying to keep it in the rev range, and stops you from spinning..... whoops i never did that on track did i Dan.........Dan? lol

[Hi_Camry]

My Wifes Micra (02) reg is awful from 3rd to 2nd I always DD Clutch. I had to learn when Minis had no syncro on 1st, and needed to ram it in for a quick get away (Ok not so quick in an 850 cc Mk 1)

Still do it regularly in the Camry, makes for a great escape from those Red Baemers!

[pizza boy]

FWD is still a great laugh especially with left foot breaking+accel on at the same time to induce oversteer. Best example is the new mini its such a fun car. I thrashed the basic mini 1(m8s company car lol) and was amazed at the handling of the damn thing. Handled brilliantly in the wey too twas great!

FWD is still cool imo as long as its the right type of car.

[Titto]

im gonna add a bit of controvosy here....

People are getting mixed up between whatever double-declutching is(american term) and what "matching the revs" or "matching the gears" is over here.

Motorcyclists as mentioned should do it in order to stop the rear overtaking the from and thus causing the dreaded rear wheel lock...the blipping you hear isnt necessary, but some people argue it makes the gears go in easier (thats why racers do it).

For the road tho, on any advanced (and upwards) course you should (and will be by the end) "match the gears/revs".

Its dead simple, but not many people do it and basically best to practice at 30mph in 4th gear.

Clutch in, select 3rd.

KEEP UP REVS

Clutch out.

When you get NO juddering and NO body movement of the vehicle (car or bike) then your getting there.

Now do it 4th to 2nd. Keep practicing. - til your mint at it!

Now practice at higher speeds and make it part of your everyday driving.

The amount of people who just change down and the gears automatically shoot up is very very high. By learning this matching the revs lark, your kinder to your car, but more importantly its a safe way of matching engine speed to road speed without locking the wheels, skidding etc etc.

Cheers

Adam

[yannick]

im gonna add a bit of controvosy here....

People are getting mixed up between whatever double-declutching is(american term) and what "matching the revs" or "matching the gears" is over here.

You've got your controversy: Double-declutching is a British term.

Apart from that I agree.

[Titto]

ahhh! i stand corrected (i'll blame it on just gettin up!)

[Titto]

ahhh! i stand corrected (i'll blame it on just gettin up!)

[Karma Supra]

Doublt declutching is when you shift into neutral between gears and drop the clutch, before pressing it again to select the next gear.

The throttle blip is to get it all spinning up for a quicker take up on selecting the next gear.

your talkign about matching the revs... which involves, er, chaning gear and keepign the revs right (something I thought was part of everyday driving?)

[yannick]

Charlie,

as far as I understood Adam's post, it's the same thing. But I could be wrong