At Last Some Good New For Diesel Car Owners

[RunningInPleasePass]

This looks like good news for diesel car owners!

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/green-cars/london-mayor-renews-calls-diesel-car-scrappage-scheme

[korat102]

Haha...Sorry. Just putting my cynical hat on again. They want people to swap their older vehicles that can run for ever on any old crap for new ones that need specific (expensive and, more importantly, taxable) fuels and only run for a few thousand miles before needing servicing in the form of EGR cleaning/replacement.

[timberwolf]

Funny article.

Sadly, one of my relatives was proud to think they were doing their eco bit by driving a diesel!

[PeteB]

I think what really upset a couple of my friends was when I worked out that due to their relatively low mileage, their diesels were actually costing significantly more than a petrol equivalent, when allowing for higher purchase price, higher servicing costs, lower resale value (usually) and more expensive fuel.

They just didn't do enough miles for the better mpg to outweigh all the other factors!

[korat102]

Yeah, I'm not doing the sort of mileage to justify having a diesel on a cost basis. Its low down torque is great when you're carrying heavy loads though and there simply weren't any petrol versions around with a decent spec when I was looking for a Verso. If you're buying used cars, you don't always get what you want unless you're more patient than I am - which, to be fair, is not a terribly difficult feat to achieve :)

[PeteB]

...If you're buying used cars, you don't always get what you want unless you're more patient than I am ...

yes - I got more lucky that I expected when I took my Yaris in for a service and bumped into the salesman I normally deal with - I was missing the Hybrid, and since the 2012 facelift, a T3 (15" wheels) suited my needs (I could get them to add the Cruise Control switch, the only thing I would really miss on that model).

I told him to let me know next time he had a white T3 demo, preferably with T&GO+, expecting to wait a year or two, or even never hear from him.

He rang me a couple of days later and said there was one on loan to Radio Norwich coming up for sale! I bit his hand off, even though I took a massive hit on the 1 year old Yaris! (my ex-partner was very happy though - I let her have it for a song and traded in her 4 year old Aygo)

[Grumpy Cabbie]

They're doing this just as Euro 6 diesel emissions are coming out. Diesel emissions that are actually cleaner now than petrol; including NOx. lol, you couldn't make it up. The urea injection diesels (Euro 6) are much cleaner on particulates and match petrol for NOx. Don't believe me? Have a look up (from a distance dummy) the inside of the exhaust of a top of the range 2014 Jaguar or Merc diesel and you'll see it will be totally clean.

There's no need to offer incentives to trade in an old diesel. Just wait for the massive maintenance costs to make it unviable to continue running a diesel and let them get scrapped early. Horrid nasty things and deserve to go the way of the dodo. :)

[korat102]

Never ceases to amaze me how clean the inside of the exhaust is on my Verso. Can run your finger around the inside, as far as you can reach, and it comes out spotless.

I remember, many years ago, we used to stand in the fumes beside an ice cream van for ages. I still associate the smell of half burned diesel with ice cream! Few people thought about exhaust fumes back then of course...they were just an annoyance.

Still think the dirtiest things on the road are buses. But since they're public transport and flavour of the decade, little will get done. Having said that, they're trialling electric buses on some routes in Milton Keynes. Noisiest electric vehicles I've ever come across, they sound like half a dozen old milk floats strapped together. Why do buses have to be so primitive and noisy?

[Uncle Buck]

One of the things which constantly amazes me about all these eco-crazed rule makers, is the total lack of recognition for the vastly polluting aircraft that pump millions of pollutants into our atmosphere every day. I'm not suggesting for one moment that we stop flying (that would be ridiculous), but surely we should be concentrating on making one of the highest percentage polluters in the transport world much greener. I'm sure the technology exists & as usual it's probably cost that determines everything.

In summary, it's we motorists who yet again get blamed for all the world's pollution, when there are factories, aircraft and a multitude of different industries pumping out nasties or then dumping it somewhere !

[Parts-King]

There is one thing you can say about Boris, he likes to be in the limelight despite being a proper twit!

I agree with the above, there are far more polluting things out there that need sorting out, old buses and lorries for a start off (yes I know central London has cleaned up its act) but pollution from outside the congestion zone still finds it's way in on the wind!

I love a diesel, I love the torque, I love a Hybrid too, but not just for it's environmental credentials. Euro 6 engines have 50% less NOx than Euro 5 engines, and the cap is 80mg/km. Back in 2000, the limit was 500gm/km so the modern diesel has come a very long way in reducing NOx in a relatively short time

[PeteB]

To be fair, aircraft efficiency has improved drastically over recent years, mainly in terms of engine improvements, better aerodynamics and super-efficient computer controlled fly-by-wire systems.

Just look at an old film of a jet with black smoke streaming from the engines, something your rarely if ever see nowadays.

I'm afraid the main problem in cities around the world at the moment relates to NOx gases from diesel road vehicles (pre Euro 6) made worse by people switching to them in large numbers because of the fixation on CO2. That's why Paris had to ban half the cars from the roads (hybrids and EVs excluded!) earlier this year, and many other big cities should have done something similar -they just 'preferred' to allow tens of thousands of people to die a year or two earlier than they might otherwise have done, and in the case of London pay £100M plus fines!

[MEP's Yaris GS]

One of the things which constantly amazes me about all these eco-crazed rule makers, is the total lack of recognition for the vastly polluting aircraft that pump millions of pollutants into our atmosphere every day. I'm not suggesting for one moment that we stop flying (that would be ridiculous), but surely we should be concentrating on making one of the highest percentage polluters in the transport world much greener. I'm sure the technology exists & as usual it's probably cost that determines everything.

In summary, it's we motorists who yet again get blamed for all the world's pollution, when there are factories, aircraft and a multitude of different industries pumping out nasties or then dumping it somewhere !

How do you know they're not also having to become more eco friendly? Also the fact is they're not pumping their stuff out at ground level which probably makes a different to health (which is the issue with diesels) even if it doesn't save the planet.

I know a lot of industries are suffering, including the agricultural industry and their tractors etc. You ought to see the size of the DPFs on those bad boys!!

[Uncle Buck]

How do I know Jonathan ? Easy - I did 12 years in the RAF & have worked with aircraft (until 2 years ago) since the age of 17.

They have improved in efficiency and pollution, but not to the extent that cars have. My point really stemmed from the fact that there are millions of miles flown by passenger & cargo aircraft every day of the year, so at high atmosphere levels there is still a lot of damage being done. It doesn't affect us immediately (unlike passing dirty buses), but much of it affects us in the longer run by climate change & air purity. Basically they're also polluting the atmosphere - just at a higher level.

[Dancing Badger]

Never ceases to amaze me how clean the inside of the exhaust is on my Verso. Can run your finger around the inside, as far as you can reach, and it comes out spotless.

I remember, many years ago, we used to stand in the fumes beside an ice cream van for ages. I still associate the smell of half burned diesel with ice cream! Few people thought about exhaust fumes back then of course...they were just an annoyance.

Still think the dirtiest things on the road are buses. But since they're public transport and flavour of the decade, little will get done. Having said that, they're trialling electric buses on some routes in Milton Keynes. Noisiest electric vehicles I've ever come across, they sound like half a dozen old milk floats strapped together. Why do buses have to be so primitive and noisy?

Significant number of buses in Greater Manchester are diesel hybrids, both FirstGroup and Stagecoach seem to have a lot of hybrid double deckers. From my experience of them passing by when I'm walking through town they are noticeably quieter and cleaner than the normal diesels, they seem to be running all the time at a tickover.

We also have a FREE bus service in central Manchester run by 30-odd seater single deckers which run on three routes serving the major stations and shopping areas - these are mostly hybrids but I've noticed in the last few weeks that they are introducing full electrics into this fleet - don't know what they sound like, only passed them in the car! Not been on one - I drive my Prius into town (even with parking it works out cheaper than public transport if you know when and where to park - which I do) or occasionally use the tram, which is quiet, quick, and horrendously expensive.

As an aside, compare the price of public transport in any major British city to almost any major European city and, well, they don't compare. I was recently in Rome for a few days, a single trip by underground, bus or tram (including combinations) is €1.50 anywhere, a day ticket €6.00. A peak return by tram to Manchester from where I get my car serviced 4 miles out in the 'burbs is £6.30. No way to encourage us out of our cars.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Quite a few of the bus companies have hybrids on their fleets now.

National Express in Birmingham have 39, and Diamond have some on their fleet as well. Regional daysaver tickets allowing one to travel anywhere in the Region on any bus and on any number of journeys, cost £4.

Caledonian MacBrayne in Scotland have a couple of hybrid car ferries (diesel electric) - http://www.calmac.co.uk/Default.aspx.LocID-00inew00x.RefLocID-00i00r00a.Lang-EN.htm

"The ferries, which are operated by the current operator of the Clyde and Hebrides Ferry Services, CalMac are designed for use on many of the short crossing routes around the Clyde and Hebrides and will use some of the most innovative new ‘green’ technology, including Battery banks supplying a minimum of 20% of the energy consumed on board.The vessel will be powered by small diesel generator sets, feeding power to a 400 volt switchboard, which will supply power to electric propulsion motors that turn the (Voith Sneider) propulsion units. In addition, the Battery banks will provide power to operate the vessel.

The ferries will charge overnight while they are moored on the islands they will serve and future plans include the use of energy from local wind, wave or solar systems to charge the batteries."

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Aren't there huge grants available for electric/hybrid buses?

I know York have recently introduced some a huge expense on their latest park and ride service.

It's all a good thing though.

[FROSTYBALLS]

I think the hybrid buses cost around £300K each - whereas diesels cost around £250K each.

The new London bus is costing £354K each