PHEV.... radar cruise control temporarily unavailable WTH.

[Nick72]

So, 20 minutes into what turned out to be a 6.5 hour drive (normally 3.5) I'm in adaptive cruise and the car steams ahead towards the car clearly in front and no more than 10m away. I slammed on. Message comes up on the HUD saying warning check the dash. On the dash is the message about radar cruise being temporarily unavailable.  So I cleared the message pressing the back arrow button. 3 sec later the message is back. It takes up all of the drivers display. Ad infinitum.  Basically, not only am I now driving 6.5 hours without cruise but the drivers display (MID) is unusable.

Light snow fall but nothing that should upset the radar. 

 

Ended up pulling into a services after a few hours for a break. All working again. Switch off and on.

 

Anyone seen anything like this?

Unrelated, but are the wing mirrors heated? Mine seemed like they were full of condensation fog and barely usable. All blurred. Tried various air con settings to no effect.

 

Thanks each

N

 

 

 

[philip42h]

Door mirrors are heated - switched on with the rear screen heater / defogger ...

[ernieb]

Nick, I was just going to post the same experience that you’ve had. This was on the M1 travelling north on Saturday into the storm. I first got a warning the the collision avoidance system was not operating, message taking up the MID space used the return/back key to eliminate the message. Then got a ACC message saying it was unavailable and like you cleared using the return button. Message pops up again, repeat and repeat, I finally got it cleared to see the MID by turning on the the ACC then immediately turned it off, no message well at least for some time. It was a pain and whilst I understand the need to warn the driver I don’t think it should blank out the whole display.

There was snow build up on the radar head so understand the reason it blanked out and I think it will always struggle in those cold intensely wet/snowy conditions. The previous Subaru had the twin HD camera systems which could switch off but never like this I was a bit disappointed at the lost of a major safety system and wonder why there does not appear to be some form of heater to keep the radar head clear. 
 

The wing mirrors clear when the rear heated windows switch is operated, this has been the case for a few of my previous cars.

[philip42h]

Does it not also need to front camera (as well as the radar) in order to detect lane markings and know which lane the car in front is in? I can imagine visibility becoming an issue in snow sooner than the radar ... 

I guess that you might have been able to switch to classic cruise control  had you wanted to ... ?

[ernieb]

5 minutes ago, philip42h said:

Does it not also need to front camera (as well as the radar) in order to detect lane markings and know which lane the car in front is in? I can imagine visibility becoming an issue in snow sooner than the radar ... 

I guess that you might have been able to switch to classic cruise control  had you wanted to ... ?

The lane guidance is definitely the camera but I think the collision avoidance and ACC is down to the radar system but that switches off and on all the time if the markings are missing or the sun is blanking the camera etc., it gives you a warning the waits until the situation has cleared and then automatically switches back on. This is the same as your car I guess? I didn’t try standard CC I was happier being in control and monitoring the situation myself, it’s just good to have the safety systems in place and operational as sometimes they can help respond if the unforeseen happens.

As an aside the Subaru system is able to differentiate between trucks, cars, bikes and humans so has algorithms that take the likely behave to count built into the systems. I think the current systems is even better than the one I had in my previous XV. 
Each system has its benefits and drawbacks but in the end it’s the ‘nut behind the wheel’ that matters.

[nlee]

Did I read somewhere that the radar head is behind the Toyota Badge on the front?

If so, perhaps a future feature ought to have some trace heating to keep it snow and ice free. It is quite a large snow catcher. Maybe keeping it well polished or something like rainX might help to stop snow and ice adhering to it?

Possibly when you stopped @Nick72the collected snow fell off?

[ernieb]

Yes, that’s the location but based on my experience I can not see that it’s heated as mine had collected a good mat of snow as had the gap around the front of the bonnet area and below the number plate.

[spicyhotone]

My previous Kodiaq had the same problem with ice/snow building up and stopping the front radar working - but at least the (non-digital) instrument display was still usable. This seems a very silly, and dangerous design by Toyota. Surprised I didn't read about this in the many US reviews of the "prime" - many of whom seemed to drive in cold/snowy conditions regularly - I wonder if they have a heater in those markets?

[ernieb]

Interesting to find out if they have heater I’d certainly try to have one fitted if it was practical but I’d think the radar head would be one design across the range. Maybe in the states they have not taken to using the ACC controls I have friends who would not know how to turn it on if their lives depended on it.

[nlee]

Looks like BMW, Audi, MB and Tesla Model Y have heaters (and obviously a well known limitation of the technology). It suggests it's possible so would be interesting if Toyota came up with a retrofit or anyone comes up with a DIY option.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31957229/tesla-model-y-sensor-heater-revealed/

So far I haven't experienced the issue but if it only happens occasionally in very poor conditions, I'd probably want to have full control anyway. If it happens every time there's a heavy frost then something I'd consider.

[ernieb]

I also found this today 

There are some tips you will want to keep in mind when utilizing DRCC. There are five conditions in which this system will not operate. The first is when visibility in the front of the vehicle is poor due to bad weather. Next, if there is something on the sensor—such as mud, ice, or bugs—the system will not work. If you are driving on a curved road where the turn length is narrow, the system will turn off. If the leading vehicle is pulling an empty trailer, has a narrow rear surface area, or is a motorcycle, the system will not work. It is important to keep these things in mind as you drive and utilize DRCC.

[ColinB]

Both my Nissan Pulsar and Toyota C-HR had the same issue when the radar sensor became obstructed by snow / mud. 

I must admit that I'm not a fan of the automatic cruise control, I usually just use the constant speed function,but then again only very rarely drive on motorways. 

[Cyker]

Aww you should try it, it's great! Although you do have to pay almost as much attention as you do with normal cruise control as the system drives like a learner and doesn't handle big changes by the car in front (e.g. If they brake firmly mine slams on the anchors  even harder with several car lengths clearance, instead of braking firmly and progressively and using up that buffer of space, and if the car ahead shoots off it'll pause for a sec then do the same! I've learned to just turn it off in such situations and go back to my normal constant speed with a buffer gap style so I don't keep accelerating and braking like the person in front)

I can see this car is not going to be a good winter car for me tho' - Doesn't warm up unless I'm going fast, and now I have the joy of it warning me that there might be ice - The warning wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't plastered over the HUD and MFD, blocking actually useful information!

I wish it was like notifications, where you could tell it to not show some of them, or at least just show it once and not keep doing it randomly!

[Nick72]

On 11/28/2021 at 10:25 PM, philip42h said:

Door mirrors are heated - switched on with the rear screen heater / defogger ...

Ah didn't know that. Just assumed they were piped with warm air from the air con. Great tip. Thanks.

[Nick72]

14 hours ago, ernieb said:

Nick, I was just going to post the same experience that you’ve had. This was on the M1 travelling north on Saturday into the storm. I first got a warning the the collision avoidance system was not operating, message taking up the MID space used the return/back key to eliminate the message. Then got a ACC message saying it was unavailable and like you cleared using the return button. Message pops up again, repeat and repeat, I finally got it cleared to see the MID by turning on the the ACC then immediately turned it off, no message well at least for some time. It was a pain and whilst I understand the need to warn the driver I don’t think it should blank out the whole display.

There was snow build up on the radar head so understand the reason it blanked out and I think it will always struggle in those cold intensely wet/snowy conditions. The previous Subaru had the twin HD camera systems which could switch off but never like this I was a bit disappointed at the lost of a major safety system and wonder why there does not appear to be some form of heater to keep the radar head clear. 
 

The wing mirrors clear when the rear heated windows switch is operated, this has been the case for a few of my previous cars.

Thanks Ernie. Two annoying issues then. The lack of resilience in the cruise control. It's a radar. Light snow in my case. No build up discernible when I parked up at the services. My Merc several years ago had ACC which seemed bullet proof. Heavy rain, snow, you name it. Still worked without ever an issue.

But the fact that the stupid message effectively eliminates use of the MID for the rest of the drive is something that I hope Toyota can fix even if they can't sort the temperamental radar. Can't exactly stop the car and restart it on the motorway. ACC all just worked fine just now. Drive back from SW London. 5hrs. Chucking it down. All worked. Strange how light snow made it go crazy. 

 

😥🤷‍♂️

 

 

[Nick72]

13 hours ago, philip42h said:

Does it not also need to front camera (as well as the radar) in order to detect lane markings and know which lane the car in front is in? I can imagine visibility becoming an issue in snow sooner than the radar ... 

I guess that you might have been able to switch to classic cruise control  had you wanted to ... ?

Adaptive cruise should be moded off the radar only.

[Nick72]

11 hours ago, nlee said:

Did I read somewhere that the radar head is behind the Toyota badge on the front?

If so, perhaps a future feature ought to have some trace heating to keep it snow and ice free. It is quite a large snow catcher. Maybe keeping it well polished or something like rainX might help to stop snow and ice adhering to it?

Possibly when you stopped @Nick72the collected snow fell off?

It was too light a snow and the air temperature was 4C so I doubt anything had built up. No sign of anything on the car when I stopped it. Bizarre. 

 

But all fine just now in the drive back.

[Nick72]

8 hours ago, nlee said:

Looks like BMW, Audi, MB and Tesla Model Y have heaters (and obviously a well known limitation of the technology). It suggests it's possible so would be interesting if Toyota came up with a retrofit or anyone comes up with a DIY option.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31957229/tesla-model-y-sensor-heater-revealed/

So far I haven't experienced the issue but if it only happens occasionally in very poor conditions, I'd probably want to have full control anyway. If it happens every time there's a heavy frost then something I'd consider.

Good find!

When it went wrong it was headed hard over to run into the back of the car in front. Error message only came up just after I hit the brakes hard. Road was clear, no snow. It was snowing lightly but nothing of significance.