Rav 4 Hybrid v Rav 4 PHEV

[Nickems]

As Im thinking of upgrading from my 2020 Hybrid to a used 2021 PHEV Can a clever member do the maths for me to calculate the cost comparison on 10000 miles per year using a PHEV . My typical annual use is 75% local journeys ( up to 50 miles) 25% long distance (500 miles plus)

Any comments welcomed

[ernieb]

Difficult to do as it depends on so many factors, electricity costs, how heavy you are with the right foot etc. but Ive had my PHEV since May, one of the first in the UK.  My mileage profile is similar to yours and I’ve effectively driven round 5500 miles, 72%EV distance both charged and recovered and the MyT app says that my average effective consumption  is 127mpg. So taking every thing into account the app suggests the average consumption as if it was all petrol. I’m a more defensive driver than aggressive and use the ECO mode often as I find it more that adequate so most of my driving. I use the Normal mode to heat the car (as it runs the heat recovery harder) if it really cold but have found ECO mode OK in the summer. Hope that helps?

[Flatcoat]

My guess it isn’t worth swapping unless the change brings some other desired spec items that you currently do not have (sunroof, JBL etc). Depreciation is the biggest cost of car ownership. Let’s say it costs you £5k to change. That £5k buys an awful lot of petrol even at todays rip off price. 

[Broadway One]

Hi all......I have recently completed the HE/PHEV swap.

The comfort, drivability, & performance came as a pleasant surprise.

To achieve minimal running costs home or/& workplace charging facilities are essential IMO. 

Both denied to me retired living in a apartment block.

Absolutely no regrets, love the motor but regular EV charging is like filling up with petrol a gallon at a time. 

On a positive note there are owners on this forum making full use of night time tariffs.

Particularly relevant are owners with a regular commute.

Kilowatt hourly rates at 5p equating to 1.5p per mile running costs brings serious saving.

Use of the granny lead supplied with all new PHEV's means no need to install a home charging point.

A further saving towards lots of low cost miles.

Barry Wright Lancashire.

PS The new directive from OZEV commencing April 2022 represents a massive acceleration in the roll out of EV charging points in the way of grants for EV infrastructure installation in existing residential apartment blocks etc. etc. 

[philip42h]

16 hours ago, Nickems said:

As Im thinking of upgrading from my 2020 Hybrid to a used 2021 PHEV Can a clever member do the maths for me to calculate the cost comparison on 10000 miles per year using a PHEV . My typical annual use is 75% local journeys ( up to 50 miles) 25% long distance (500 miles plus)

Any comments welcomed

As others have said it all depends but to give an answer to the question asked ...

You are doing 10,000 miles per year.

Of these 2,500 miles are long distance so the PHEV and the HEV will be pretty much equivalent and cost pretty much the same - about £375 using the estimating assumptions I use below.

The remaining 7,500 miles are essentially EV miles in the PHEV and hybrid miles in the HEV. Assuming a hybrid 45 mpg that will consume 167 gallons, and with petrol at £1.50 per litre, cost £1,125 in the HEV. If I assume 300 Wh/mile for the PHEV and a standard variable rate of 22p per kWh that will cost £495 in the PHEV. So the saving of the PHEV vs the HEV could be around £630 per year.

Obviously using different estimating assumptions would yield a different answer ... 😉

[robo1]

But then it’s costs an extra £335 in car tax and the extra cost of the PHEV need to be factored into the calculation.

[TonyHSD]

With Bz4x around the corner at very similar price and it’s basically more aerodynamic rav4 electric I personally would not go from hev to phev at the moment especially when we are talking about both nearly new cars 2020 vs 2021, ok if it was rav 4 from 2016 hybrid vs latest phev 2021 then it will be perhaps larger difference in all aspects and make the switch more appealing, just my thoughts. 🚙👍

[satts67]

13 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

My guess it isn’t worth swapping unless the change brings some other desired spec items that you currently do not have (sunroof, JBL etc). Depreciation is the biggest cost of car ownership. Let’s say it costs you £5k to change. That £5k buys an awful lot of petrol even at todays rip off price. 

Agree with this totally. It always makes me smile on this forum how folk are willing to spend upwards of £40K on the latest 21 PHEV or HEV but are worrying about which version might make slightly better mpg.

[Nickems]

Thanks guys for your insighful comments. You all seem to side with the fact that any saving will be mimimal and the extra road Tax is a step too far for me so I will keep my HE for now and watch the market

[Stopeter44]

7 hours ago, satts67 said:

Agree with this totally. It always makes me smile on this forum how folk are willing to spend upwards of £40K on the latest 21 PHEV or HEV but are worrying about which version might make slightly better mpg.

Yeah, that is great irony, especially if annual mileage is not that high. The OP is talking of something of a sideways move, a 2020 HEV model would have taken it’s biggest hit for depreciation, I expect a 2021  PHEV at equivalent spec, to have maintained the initial price difference, and maybe held it’s value better?

2 years, and selling on seems like a good way to piss away a fair chunk of change. In a previous lifetime I’ve done that too many times. Even at 6 years with the recent change, I felt that in reality I could have comfortably kept the old car, but I’d started down the slippery slope of test drives….

[IanML]

2 hours ago, Stopeter44 said:

2 years, and selling on seems like a good way to ***** away a fair chunk of change. In a previous lifetime I’ve done that too many times. Even at 6 years with the recent change, I felt that in reality I could have comfortably kept the old car, but I’d started down the slippery slope of test drives….

Oh, yes.  I took my KIA EV in for annual service and was expecting a 2 year old KIA manual transmission courtesy car - they put me in a 450 mile new Mazda EV and said "enjoy".  When I took it back in the evening they wanted to know what I thought - the regen wasn't as good as my KIA, and needed to be set up every time I turned the car on, and the HUD was a distraction, luckily 🙂

[Bc sussex]

I’m changing from a 17 Skoda kodiaq diesel to a phev. Because of equity that has suddenly appeared in the Skoda due to the second hand car market my monthly pcp payments will increase by about £2 per month, but I’m expecting some big savings on running costs, even with the horrible tax rate. 
 

I currently get about 35mpg out of the Skoda, which has been a great car but poor on fuel consumption. Couple it to the fact that at the end of feb it needs a major service, taxing and mot, and will need 4 new tyres and probably rear brake disks and pads you are on to a winner. 

[Stopeter44]

2 minutes ago, Bc sussex said:

I currently get about 35mpg out of the Skoda, which has been a great car but poor on fuel consumption. Couple it to the fact that at the end of feb it needs a major service, taxing and mot, and will need 4 new tyres and probably rear brake disks and pads you are on to a winner. 

Yeah, I used similar logic to justify my new car choice, but I wasn't on a PCP/Lease arrangement, I owned the car outright. If you think in terms of a monthly budget ad infinitum, I can fully see the logic.

[philip42h]

11 hours ago, Nickems said:

Thanks guys for your insighful comments. You all seem to side with the fact that any saving will be mimimal and the extra road Tax is a step too far for me so I will keep my HE for now and watch the market

As others have indicated, it is difficult to make the case for the PHEV purely on the basis of cost savings. And, if that were the primary objective, you'd be better off buying a 3 year old Yaris hybrid - i.e. a smaller, more economical car at a stage when the worst of the the depreciation is 'spent' ...

The 'best' case would be for someone doing around 15,000 EV commute miles each year (300 days at 50 miles per day). Using the same estimating basis as I did before you'd be spending £2,250 on petrol for the HEV and, maybe, £990 on electricity for the PHEV - less if you could get a better tariff or could somehow get electricity for free. The current difference in cost between the PHEV and the HEV is £4,910 based on comparable AWD Design grades. Ignoring tax and any other costs, on that basis the PHEV would pay for itself in 4 years / 60,000 EV miles ... and that's a rather unrealistic 'best case'.

But that not really the right way to look at it. If you are able to, and can afford to, sink the necessary investment into a PHEV then you'd get a car that is:

1. More economical to run mile for mile
2. Far less polluting and reliant on fossil fuels
3. More performant and more fun to drive

As with many things, you pays your money and takes your choice ... 😉

[robo1]

Using the best case example of only using the PHEV only in EV mode means you are driving around with a large un used heavy petrol engine with inverters etc. A pure electric car would make far more sense but then you have to live with range anxiety and more journey planning  until the charging infrastructure is fit for purpose.