Seeking advice for new car

[Goatz]

Hi all,

i would be grateful if you could help me with picking a new car.

i currently have a Peugoet RCZ which i picked up very cheap a few years back. I live in London and have no kids so this has been fine. Its also quite comfortable for long trips and my trip computer has me averaging around 38mpg. 
my life is about to change as i now have twins on the way, so i am trying to figure out what sort of car i will need. 
from what i understand, an estate makes more sense than a SUV, being bigger and more economical.

petrol makes more sense than a diesel as i am not racking up a lot of miles a year, although when i do drive it can be long journeys. However, i expect with the 2 on the way i will be using the car more to drive short distances.

i would like something very economical and reliable, which leads me to Toyota and Honda.

My thinking currently is:

avensis estate

auris estate

civic estate 

prius 

i have around 8k to spend. If i do go diesel ( i hear that with a civic diesel you dont have to worry so much about short distances) i will need it to be ulez compliant.

ideally i would want it to be below 100k mileage.

Any tips welcome!

 

thanks

[Cyker]

Congratulations!

Don't buy a diesel - All ULEZ-compliant diesels have at least a DPF, and these get murdered quickly by repeated short journeys. (They need to get hot to burn away the collected soot, but diesels take ages to warm up and just don't have time with short journeys)

The default option is probably an Auris hybrid estate - economical, reliable (Aside from the 12v Battery but if you use it regularly that shouldn't affect you). A lot of the high mileage ones are ex-cabs tho'.

Avensis is a nicer car at the expense of economy vs the hybrid, but it won't be by much if you're only doing short journeys for the most part; In fact if you're doing short journeys up and down hills it might even be more economical (My friend has an Auris hybrid and has to go up a hill immediately leaving his house, and when he's only doing short journeys in winter his mpg absolutely tanks; The lowest he's gotten it is 38mph, which is abysmal compared to what the Auris hybrid is capable of!). They're getting on a bit tho' so you have to do your research and find ones that have been looked after.

The Mazda estates are also worth a look at - My brother had one and given how he's not looked after it, it's been amazingly robust.

Don't know much about the Civic estates (I didn't even know they existed!!) but the Accord Estates were okay but the diesel ones seemed to have more engine issues (We looked at a few way back when my brother was looking for a car, and a lot of them had issues which is why he eventually settled on the Mazda.). The petrols might be better tho'. Traditionally the japanese have been better at petrol engines than diesels.

[2009joe]

21 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Congratulations!

Don't buy a diesel - All ULEZ-compliant diesels have at least a DPF, and these get murdered quickly by repeated short journeys. (They need to get hot to burn away the collected soot, but diesels take ages to warm up and just don't have time with short journeys)

The default option is probably an Auris hybrid estate - economical, reliable (Aside from the 12v battery but if you use it regularly that shouldn't affect you). A lot of the high mileage ones are ex-cabs tho'.

Avensis is a nicer car at the expense of economy vs the hybrid, but it won't be by much if you're only doing short journeys for the most part; In fact if you're doing short journeys up and down hills it might even be more economical (My friend has an Auris hybrid and has to go up a hill immediately leaving his house, and when he's only doing short journeys in winter his mpg absolutely tanks; The lowest he's gotten it is 38mph, which is abysmal compared to what the Auris hybrid is capable of!). They're getting on a bit tho' so you have to do your research and find ones that have been looked after.

The Mazda estates are also worth a look at - My brother had one and given how he's not looked after it, it's been amazingly robust.

Don't know much about the Civic estates (I didn't even know they existed!!) but the Accord Estates were okay but the diesel ones seemed to have more engine issues (We looked at a few way back when my brother was looking for a car, and a lot of them had issues which is why he eventually settled on the Mazda.). The petrols might be better tho'. Traditionally the japanese have been better at petrol engines than diesels.

im guessing y car cyker will be getting murdered as tbh it dose nothing but short drives just turned 60k there and its a 2014 😞 not sure what hell il be getting myself into when starts to give bother but when it dose il think about bringing it to a place to get the dpf insides taken out and map out the dpf out of the car thats if it dont wreck anything else when it dose give in 

[Cyker]

I must admit, I'm surprised yours has been so trouble-free - Are you sure it hasn't had a DPF delete?  

I'm not really an expert but it might not so much short journeys but time as well - If you're running the car long enough for the engine to heat up or going up and down hills or carrying a load then that will all help heat the engine up faster.

 

 

[2009joe]

20 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I must admit, I'm surprised yours has been so trouble-free - Are you sure it hasn't had a DPF delete?  

I'm not really an expert but it might not so much short journeys but time as well - If you're running the car long enough for the engine to heat up or going up and down hills or carrying a load then that will all help heat the engine up faster.

 

 

well when it dose get drives it dose get a bit or driving sometimes but tbh mostly short driving .na no dpf delete as i bought the car with 38k on it .its a great going car but im dreading the time when il be saying dam car going to cost me a fortune lol. my last one a 1.9tdi i had that car trouble free for loads of years i had it im sure for 11 years drove it well and was a great car tbh i only got rid of it because of those cheap motor factor break discs and pads the i put 2 new front sets of motor factor discs in front and they always later on months down the line warped so that annoyed the hell out of me and well i always wanted a toyota i had a petrol toyota when i was working in canada and was a great wagon plus i loved the toyota hyluxs there class but i have no call for them i like half descent size comfortable cars and well my 2014 avensis is graet going machine im putting in that fuel aditive every so ofton in it but not sure if its helping at all as tbh the car is driving great anyways .i must put my one on toyota techstream to see what percentages do i get from the dpf see if its getting clogged up 

[Goatz]

Thanks Cyker!

[SB1500]

I love my Avensis but I’d say give it a miss.  2015 and older are the ones with proper Toyota diesel engines. Anything after that is a dreaded BMW diesel with BMW like pricing for major servicing jobs.. full of plastic parts and surrounded by scare stories of them going wrong before their time.  Especially for a Toyota! 
 

Auris Hybrid , estate, would be best. Better efficiency. Certainly more practical than a saloon Avensis I’d say.  Try get a business edition trim or above for heated seats in this weather especially!
 

Excel is the top trim level with Toyotas. Unlike other makes, they tend to give everything in the top model - substantially more than the lower trims. So you’ll see that reflected in the pricing. If you like your comforts I’d say it’s worth getting an Excel model.  
 

if you do go for an Avensis, there is a 1.8 petrol which is a true Toyota engine (same as the 1.8 in the hybrids but without the hybrid tech).  That won’t let you down, but MPG will be a lot worse being a big car and petrol.  Automatic is an option.
 

 Sadly the Avensis, even the final nice interior / faced models like mine do fall behind in driving feel, handling etc.  they’re comfortable and by no means bad, but a Passat or Mondeo might ‘feel’ like a nicer more premium car relatively speaking. Especially around the interior trim / feel. And with things like sport mode or eco mode, that’s all missing from even a 2018 Avensis Excel (top spec).   You’ll see that reflected in lower prices for similar year low miles cars if you compare them.  Things like this is why I’d say consider an Auris. 
 

you’ll probably pay more for an Auris depending on the miles / year as they are more popular and sought after than the Avensis which I think in the end up was largely just fleet / lease company sales for the most part. Worth it though 🙂 

Avoid the 1.6 diesel Auris too, that’s the BMW unit. You want a Toyota, and that means a car that will last with care. Sadly, because of that engine; there’s a chance mine might not 😕  don’t be like me, buy a true Toyota with a Toyota engine / hybrid kit.  
 

let us know what you decide!

[avensis_2018]

Look for AvensIs 2018 petrol No diesel. Zero problems Its the best relIble car You can fInd, better then the Corrola in everY aspect.

1.8l You have the best toyota engine ever, inside.

you need to find one first hand Low mills from old person. Good luck

[SB1500]

10 hours ago, avensis_2018 said:

LOok for AvEnSIs 2018 pETrOL NO DIeSEl. Zero problems ITS THe BeST RElIBlE cAR YOu CaN fINd, bETtER THeN tHE COrROlA iN eVErY aSPeCT.

1.8l You have the best toyota engine ever, inside.

you neeD to find onE first hand Low mills fROm old persON. GoOD LUcK

Are you feeling okay?  

I don't know if you were referring to or mocking my post above yours, but I was essentially saying avoid the BMW diesel.  And listing why (from my experience / personal opinion) - especially with the OPs use case - an Auris Hybrid would be a better choice. Frankly if I could go back to last year I'd have forked out the 17k or so and gotten an Auris Excel Hybrid.  I just thought if he values what I do / should have, he might make a better choice without having to buy a car that might be: too big, too expensive to run and with the hidden surprise of a non-Toyota engine, meaning likely, no precise long-term record of Toyota reliability as the 1.8 petrol and other Toyota engines are renowned for. 

FYI, and a local Fiat dealer years ago told me this when I was seeking to buy a Panda that was 'low miles from an old person', he told me when they got trade ins from 1-3 year old models that were bought new, sometimes the clutches had to be replaced completely on them before re-selling because of some particular 'old person' driving habits. So I know that's what they say, but there's a case for a well-used and well-oiled used car too to be made. 

[Rhymes with Paris]

1 hour ago, SB1500 said:

sometimes the clutches had to be replaced completely on them before re-selling because of some particular 'old person' driving habits

Oh dear, should I not be opening the driver's door to let the clutch out?

Does this cause premature wear?

[Cessna]

Out of the models you have suggested Goatz, the Avensis estate is the biggest by far. That is obviously very useful when there is a family to attend to, more so with twins.

You are after a petrol, so as others have said, there is no worry there with unreliable BMW engines. All of the last generation petrol Avensis models have a 1.8 litre Toyota engine from when they were introduced in 2009 right until the end of production in 2018.

£8k will buy you a nice one with much less than 100k miles. Try and go for a 2012 onwards mild facelift car if you can - the early cars have a problem with water ingress in the electronic parking brake controller, which is an expensive fix (with delays on the parts at the moment looking at another thread on here).

[Goatz]

Thanks all. 
ive not seen an avensis in the flesh yet so will be on the look out to see if it is not too big, although, from what ive read online everything points to the bigger the better for twins.

auris hybrid would be great, i just wanted to explore the avensis a bit too as it feels. Like you get more bang for your buck here.

Im glad i came to the forum though as i was set on a diesel but after further research i will now avoid like the plague.

[Cyker]

Probably for the best; There are still use-cases where diesel is superior but because of all the emissions control gubbins, legislation and general demonization, esp. in cities, they're as narrow as the superior use-cases for EVs.

It's a shame, as it was able to beat everything for mpg for the longest time (Took over 10 years for Toyota to make a hybrid that could beat my Mk1 D4D  ), and still had a lot of potential, esp. if the research into making it burn cleaner or alternative fuels had been allowed to reach fruition, but c'est la vie I suppose...

 

[TonyHSD]

Just go for Auris hybrid.
These are best cars in class just because of the Prius technology inside. 
Lexus CT200h or Prius also to consider. 
Good luck 

[2009joe]

4 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Just go for Auris hybrid.
These are best cars in class just because of the Prius technology inside. 
Lexus CT200h or Prius also to consider. 
Good luck 

what year tbh im looking for a car for my wife and well i want something thats reliable and low tax id not none lol

[Auris James]

33 minutes ago, 2009joe said:

what year tbh im looking for a car for my wife and well i want something thats reliable and low tax id not none lol

If Auris Hybrid and probably other hybrids, I bought Pre April 2017 as £0 road tax. Mine is a pre facelift 2015.

[Paul john]

Prius gen4 (2016-2022) rocks

[Cyker]

50 minutes ago, Auris James said:

If Auris Hybrid and probably other hybrids, I bought Pre April 2017 as £0 road tax. Mine is a pre facelift 2015.

My friend likes to rub that in my face, as his Auris hybrid is pre-2017 so he pays no tax, but my Mk4 is very after 2017 and is the most expensive to tax car I've ever owned despite being the 'greenest'!!   

 

[TonyHSD]

14 hours ago, 2009joe said:

what year tbh im looking for a car for my wife and well i want something thats reliable and low tax id not none lol

Any year you like as long as it’s not rusted away and not much over 200k miles you will be alright. These are very good cars, top spec preferably., they comes loaded with goodies like the latest cars , just no modern safety systems but if you are sensible driver you don’t need these. 👍

[Goatz]

After some more research i am questioning if the auris estate is right for me for two reasons:

1 apparently rear facing child seats are a squeeze

2 there is no room for someone to sit in between two child seats

so perhaps a petrol avensis is a better option?

[2009joe]

11 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Any year you like as long as it’s not rusted away and not much over 200k miles you will be alright. These are very good cars, top spec preferably., they comes loaded with goodies like the latest cars , just no modern safety systems but if you are sensible driver you don’t need these. 👍

are these the cars you are talking about 

https://www.bca.co.uk/lot/DH65 LHD?q=&bq=VehicleType%3ACars|Make%3ATOYOTA|Model%3AAURIS|FuelType%3APetrol%2FElectric&searchVersion=new

 

they have a cvt gearbox sure is that not the worst gearbox to get a cvt anyone on you tube says stay away from cvt gearbox i see all those hybrid arus all come with this gearbox 

[Cyker]

None of the Toyota hybrids have an actual CVT (Or arguably a gearbox) - They just called it a CVT because it acts like one, but mechanically it couldn't be more different - Its actually better than any other type of gearbox as it is the only one I can think of that doesn't rely on friction or some wearing parts to work - There are no clutches, no belts, no friction plates, no hydraulic vanes - It's all just permanently engaged gears and electric motor trickery.

I always think they made a big mistake calling it an eCVT as still, to this day, idiot auto journalists assume it's an actual CVT and talk about the belts and cones in it, when there aren't any!

I prefer to call it the HSD or PSD (Hybrid Synergy Drive - The original marketing name for the whole thing - and Power Split Device, which I think is the official technical name for the 'gearbox'), but because nobody knows what that means I end up also having to call it an eCVT half the time or nobody knows what I'm talking about!  

[Paul john]

8 hours ago, Cyker said:

None of the Toyota hybrids have an actual CVT (Or arguably a gearbox) - They just called it a CVT because it acts like one, but mechanically it couldn't be more different - Its actually better than any other type of gearbox as it is the only one I can think of that doesn't rely on friction or some wearing parts to work - There are no clutches, no belts, no friction plates, no hydraulic vanes - It's all just permanently engaged gears and electric motor trickery.

I always think they made a big mistake calling it an eCVT as still, to this day, idiot auto journalists assume it's an actual CVT and talk about the belts and cones in it, when there aren't any!

I prefer to call it the HSD or PSD (Hybrid Synergy Drive - The original marketing name for the whole thing - and Power Split Device, which I think is the official technical name for the 'gearbox'), but because nobody knows what that means I end up also having to call it an eCVT half the time or nobody knows what I'm talking about!  

I have seen the MG1/MG2 combo called the “Transaxle”

[TonyHSD]

That’s right , automatic transmission or also called transaxle and inside is the power split device where the magic happens, which is just a planetary gear set like in conventional auto. 
It is the best auto transmission in the world for daily use or business drive , long miles great. Only not suitable for sport drive and heavy loads towing or off road, also high speeds motorway drives, extreme situations. 
Auto journalists indeed has created a bad name but now after many years majority of petrol including these journalists understood how the things work and that this is simply the best. 
Auris TS again Avensis TS , there will be size sacrifices for sure and best to personally check both. Avensis estate with 1.8 petrol manual or cvt auto are best options from Avensis world. 

[APS]

13 hours ago, Cyker said:

They just called it a CVT because it acts like one

Well, after all it is a Continuously Variable Transmission. If you call it something else the journos will just turn that term into a profanity instead. Sigh... 😉

 

On 12/3/2023 at 7:20 PM, Goatz said:

i currently have a Peugoet RCZ which i picked up very cheap a few years back. I live in London and have no kids so this has been fine. Its also quite comfortable for long trips and my trip computer has me averaging around 38mpg. 
my life is about to change as i now have twins on the way, so i am trying to figure out what sort of car i will need. 
from what i understand, an estate makes more sense than a SUV, being bigger and more economical.

RCZ? - hats off to you!! Well, it was good while it lasted. Adulthood beckons you forward...

As for suggestion, here's a curveball that'll take you far away from the nimble accuracy that is the RCZ; a Prius+.

-"What!?" Now, hear me out. It is a fabulous street-corner-crossing of an estate/hatchback/MPV; 7 seats, panoramic roof on most, sunshade curtains in the back (your kids will will be much obliged), JBL stereo (on top model), proper wide seats and arm rest in the front. A Prius on steroids. It is super easy to get the little ones in and out of the back with car seats and spare space to bring along all the paraphernalia that goes with carrying offspring about town or across the continent. It gives you a sense of nonchalant "I'll just casually glide through this traffic jam" kind of motoring that a larger bus would, but it is still a smallish car and easy to manoeuvre. 

Yes, they're not exciting, fast, pretty, nor particularly frugal. But, oh so easy to live with and still pretty light on the wallet. It's got a certain je ne sais quoi about it. The biggest issue will be finding one before a cab driver nabs it.