Toyota Vvtl-i V Honda Vtec

[mark_n]

Am I right in thinking that Toyota's VVTL-i and Honda's VTEC work on the same principle? Where you have two different cams, one acts as a road cam (lower down the rev range) and the other acts as a race cam (higher up the rev range).

What do you think the better engine is? Sorry I am just curious about it.

Thanks

[nrgizerbunny]

yes they do work on similar principles.

just a bit of basic background. the inlet and exhaust valves need to open and shut for the engine to work. Its just they are tuned to work for a partiulcar RPM, shy away from this and you end up with a problem where you can't get the fuel/air in fast enough or the exhaust out fast enough. lack of power low down and asthmatic behaviour at high rpm.

so the aim is to keep the inlet valve open for longer at higher RPM.

Which is where variable valve timing comes in. When you get up to higher RPM the valve timing changes, in a honda VTEC system this is accomplished by using a different shaped cam for each step up the rev range. the cam is engaged by increased oil pressure. This is called cam shifting

in a toyota system there are different shaped cams (cam shifting) but also something called cam phasing, this means the cam can rotate up to 10 degrees (i think) on the camshaft.

I hope this helps

have a nice day

sanj

[earpl]

im alot more impressed with the 2.0 vtec than the 1.8 vvti

[PaulT]

Some more info here.

Also try Google for vvtl-i, vtec, variocam, vanos, vvt etc.

Paul.

[CraigR]

I'm afraid that the VTEC engine has been used for years, and its alot better than the VVTi/VVTLi.

[CraigR]

This shows how the new VVTLi's work.

http://www.toyota-europe.com/technology/engines/vvtl_i.html

[sotal]

bugger! I just had it all sorted in my head then I watched that animation! Now I'm totally confused

Where do the Lift bolts come in then? :ffs:

[nrgizerbunny]

I'd have to agree I think the honda vtec is better than the toyota system.

The only problem is you have to rag hondas to get them to go, there is almost a deadband until 3000rpm, then the engine springs into life. not as big of a problem on toyotas.

[Caz SR]

Would bfuller care to join the frey? ;)

[CraigR]

Where do the Lift bolts come in then? :ffs:

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They just hold the camshafts in position so they don't move.

[PaulT]

I'm afraid that the VTEC engine has been used for years, and its alot better than the VVTi/VVTLi.

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Yeah right! Only in the recent i-VTEC engines has the Honda had variable valve timing thoughout the rev range like the Toyota VVT-i and VVTl-i. Most of the VTEC engines out there (ie. not the latest generation) have variable lift on the inlet cam only, unlike the VVTL-i which alters the lift on inlet and exhaust valves.

The Toyota 1.8 VVTL-i produces more specific power than the Honda 2.0 i-VTEC at over 100bhp per litre.

The Honda engine makes more torque available lower down the rev range.

Do not make the mistake of comparing the Corolla/Celica T Sport and the Honda Civic Type R and draw the conclusion that the Honda has a much better engine. The Honda accelerates faster largely because of its shorter gearing and slightly more because of the better low-down torque.

I wouldn't call that "a lot" better exactly. Rant over :D

Paul.

[bfuller]

Would bfuller care to join the frey?

I like VTEC :D

Bear in mind that VTEC has been around since 1989, and VVti is a relativlely new technology!

Whichever way you look at it, both are good systems - Honda was the first manufacturer to make over 100bhp per litre with the B16. This is the engine I currently have. Mine dyno'd at 167bhp on Saturday which is pretty good for a 16 year old engine!

Although, my engine will be closer to 450bhp when its finished, and thats whilst keeping it a 1.6

I'd be glad to have a drunk in depth discussion about it with anyone at Daves gig tonight, I'll be proudly wearing my CRX-UK shirt

Most of the VTEC engines out there (ie. not the latest generation) have variable lift on the inlet cam only,

Thats b :censor: s :)

[CraigR]

What about the 2.0L on the Honda S200 which produces 240BHP or 120MHP per litre?

I'm not knocking the Toyota engine, as its brilliant, but its just not as good as the VTEC's yet.

[bfuller]

The S2k engine is not I-VTEC either, just normal VTEC.

PaulT - I respect your opinion mate, but its pretty common knowledge that Honda engines are better engineered than the toyota efforts :D

[PaulT]

Most of the VTEC engines out there (ie. not the latest generation) have variable lift on the inlet cam only,

Thats <the spuds of lurrrrvve>s :)

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Ok! There are several variants of the VTEC engine. Here are some:

DOHC VTEC --- variable cam profile on inlet and outlet valves.

VTEC --- inlet valves with variable profile *only*. I reckon there are a lot of these about.

VTEC-E --- one inlet valve closes at lower revs.

Now, if somebody wants to show that DOHC VTEC or i-VTEC is the most common, I will own up to talking drivel :D

Cheers

Paul.

[PaulT]

PaulT - I respect your opinion mate, but its pretty common knowledge that Honda engines are better engineered than the toyota efforts :D

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:D :D :D

Paul.

[Stu8]

PaulT - I respect your opinion mate, but its pretty common knowledge that Honda engines are better engineered than the toyota efforts :D

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I'll quote you on that in later years. :D

who know's now toyota have a F1 race team, some of the lessons learned might be introduced into their new engines.

[jaxx]

five letters and numbers

3SGTE

no silly one more thing to go wrong valve lifting

[mark_n]

Thanks for the replys. I have learnt alot. :) :)

[scionic]

I'm not sure why some of you are so *certain* that Honda VTEC is superior to the Toyota technology. I don't get the sense that opinion is based on scientific fact as much as anecdotal evidence or what people have heard from others.

Both are very similar systems, now Honda enjoys a larger tuner community, but I think that has more to do with their car offerings than it does the motors alone.

There are lots of things that can affect specific output. You also need to consider the powerband. Just because Honda engine "X" puts out 180 hp from 2 liters and Toyota engine "Y" doesn't, does not = VTEC is superior to VVT-i. For me, personally, I don't care about a 2 liter with 240 hp if I have to flog the everloving crap out of it to see those 240 horses at 8000 rpm or some absurd number like that. Horsepower is great, but if it comes all at the end of the tach and there is no meat in the midrange, I don't think it's anything so exciting. If I want a motorcycle engine, I'll get a motorcycle, thanks!

[earpl]

heres a tip for the day..... lets drag up an old post!!!

[scionic]

heres a tip for the day..... lets drag up an old post!!!

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I've got a tip for you... :censor:

[earpl]

lol

[Leeky]

Now now boys...

How about we all go get some turbos and we'll hear no more about this variable whatever rubbish :D

[LORD_ED]

im with leeky and jaxx on this

none of this hit 9000rpm and my engin e gets louder u want to hit 3000rpm and u get a whistling sound........TURBO