Immobiliser To Cambelt Replacement

[slymiloni]

Hello, I'll tell you what happened so some may learn about their immobiliser then I'll ask for the help...

My wife has a '97 2.0 petrol Rav (over 100k miles) which has been faultless for the last 5 years until today it wouldn't start. The RAC couldn't diagnose it (sparking, turning and pumping fuel) and their computerised flowchart pointed to the immobiliser so they towed it off to the nearest Toyota dealer in Swindon. Only moved here this week so didn't know where else to go.

Toyota told me that using the grey master key I sent with my normal keys it started fine (how annoying, Toyota 1:RAC 0) and the problem was simply that my normal key had dropped it's code somehow and they reprogrammed that for nothing. Happy days, I was expecting £80 just for them to put it throught their hours worth of diagnostics. Bit fed up with the RAC though for such a simple snag, he even tried phoning a friend!

That's my helpful bit, now the problem...

They told me that once started it was making a horrendous noise from the side of the engine. It does normally ratlle a bit when cold then quiet again once warmed up. I always put this down to a loose heat shield or soemthing, toyota put it down to a worn cambelt tensioner. That's after they'd investigated for an hour by taking belts off etc and checking the variuous parts down the belty side of the engine. There's my eighty quid gone again! Oh, and they say it needs a cam belt and alternator belt as well both costing an arm and a leg each and four hours labour (I noticed another post on here that quotes a book time of 2.4 hours?). They'll refund the diagnostic labour though if I have them repair it. NO! I'm doing it, now for the help...

I'm an aircraft engineer so I'm not a techno biff and I know one end of a hammer from the other, I just want a simple step by stepper of how to chnage the cam belt and tensioners and what to watch out for along the way. Most importantly the lining up and tensioning. Someone suggested I could get a cheap kit for holding the two cams in the right place? ANything else you recommend I change at the same time, ooh, and where am i going to get a good deal on spares from?

I've downloaded bothwell buyer's ravcam1-5 photos and I'll have a look through them once I get them up the right way! (Joking!) Are these for the right engine though, not sure what type mine is but the engine number is 3s2338789 if that's any help? Someone mentioned a non interference valve in the evenet of a cambelt failure, could that be my engine? Please say yes, just in case!

The toyota guy tried to scare me off doing it myself obviously with horror stories of what could go wrong if the cogs were out by even a fraction. He's made me a bit concernedabout driving it the 10 miles or so back from the dealer although it's been driving fine with that rattle when cold for at least a year. Could them disturbing it make it more vulnerable?

I know that's a lot to take in and thanks for sticking with me if you've got this far. I've tried to give the full picture that's all. I know I'll have missed something.

Thanks in advance for any info you give me.

Sly

[Fujisan]

I know that's a lot to take in and thanks for sticking with me if you've got this far.

:D

No....thank you!

Sorry can't offer any advice.......... but good luck

[bothwell_buyer]

Caw yersel an aircraft engineer? Whit dya think yev goat in yer engine compartment> a RR RB211 ???

Gies a break!!

Whit ye have will likely be either a 3SFE 127bhp lump or a 3SGE lump if its an import

Either way, its the same block. If ye went tae fit a 3SGTE wi the Yamaha head, then yed hae the Toyotas racing engine basically....an if so then the beast flies.

If yer alternator belt is slippin then yell hear it.

The cambelt tends to be important cos the 3SFE is an interference engine.

Comin frae Swindon but, ah can see yer up against things.

See the immobilisers oan the early RAVs - crap. I've had 2 immobilisers rem,oved frae ma twa RAVs 1994 - 2 different systems and baith crap.

Ahm noo tryin ma hand at helpin a puir soul oot doon the coast as his immobiliser alarm system has collapsed. I've taken a few photos and aim to take some mair wance we get his going again. (The RAV an no his attributes!). Removing the alarm an immobilser wis a 2 hour jobbie which cuid hae bin done in 20 minutes, but it wis raining an ahm gittin auld.

Hoooever, I reckon we've identified the cable wot cuts out the ignition so ah'll be back doon tae near troon this week.

Swindon is a place ahd bin tae a few years ago. Partly thru ma jobbie wi Royal Mail and met a gorgeous girl wha drove me aboot. Canna name her oan this foriiii cos ahl get struck aff.

Otherwise it wis a heluva place.

3SFE engine - aye it needs its cambelt done every 60k miles.

Alternator - weel as ah lent ma manual oot tae a winsome girl in Glasgae twa weeks ago, ah canna refer tae the manual. Ah never had a problem wi the alternator ever.

Ankirman has a tip oan this foriiii aboot pittin biling water oan the bit waur the belt runs tae help it no slip. Being a train driver, he shuid ken.

Ony mair and better tae PM me or, as ahm haein hassle frae ma main computer, ye can email me at ian@silverwells.com as ma 2nd computer is running ok.

Wance a've feeenished wur pals RAV in Troon, ah cuid allays drive doon tae yer bit tae see if a meet up wi the wee cracker whit ah met back 20 years ago. If it wis yer wife, ah never touched her.

[slymiloni]

Cheers for the quick replies.

As it's the same engine as in yer pics I'll crack on with those for now thanks. Getting car back tomorrow then on hols for a week, (my other cars an Audi until the Rav's fixed)

I'll let you know how I get on when I get back. I'll definitely email you if I run into probs. Hopefully by the time I'm back there'll be so much advise here that it'll pretty much replace itself!

That's a mean accent you got there Bothwell you obviously have a Scottish keyboard as well? Fortunately I stayed up near Inverness for a couple of years so I still mind some of the lingo d'ya ken?!

Oh, and I hope it wasn't my wife because she would have been just 13!!!

Cheers for yer help.

Sly

[bothwell_buyer]

Cheers for the quick replies.

As it's the same engine as in yer pics I'll crack on with those for now thanks. Getting car back tomorrow then on hols for a week, (my other cars an Audi until the Rav's fixed)

I'll let you know how I get on when I get back. I'll definitely email you if I run into probs. Hopefully by the time I'm back there'll be so much advise here that it'll pretty much replace itself!

That's a mean accent you got there Bothwell you obviously have a Scottish keyboard as well? Fortunately I stayed up near Inverness for a couple of years so I still mind some of the lingo d'ya ken?!

Oh, and I hope it wasn't my wife because she would have been just 13!!!

Cheers for yer help.

Sly

Ahm no wan fur judging age!!! She wis much younger than me, so maybe it wis yer Gran???

[slymiloni]

So, I picked the car up today, £85 worse off, they did clean it for me though, worth every penny!

The report said "CARRIED OUT VSR FOUND TENTIONER (Yes, with a T!?) BELT BROKEN ADVISED REPLACEMENT OF CAMBELT, TENTIONER AND DRIVE BELT. CUSTOMER DECLINED - ADVISED UNDRIVEABLE IN OUR OPINION"

I've worked out that VSR means Visual Safety Report but wasn't aware of a tensioner belt? Being a Saturday there was only a pretty sales boy in a suit who didn't have a clue. Just looked through Bothwell's Ravcam photos and they explain it all pretty well but nomention of a belt? Any ideas?

Also Bothwell Buyer, it mentions measuring the spring length and comparing against the specifications somewhere else in your book, couldn't be an angel and look that length up for me could you please. I know you've done enough already so pretty please. (Gotta keep you sweet cos I'malmost certainly gonna need more help when I start the job!)

The part numebrs they've quoted that I need are as follows, any suggestions on where to get them from at a sensible price would be appreciated.

Cambelt- 13568-09041

Tensioner- 13505-74011

Alt Drive Belt- 90916-02355.83

Thanks again.

Sly

[anchorman]

You can buy the parts from parts_king and he will have them delivered to you at a discounted price. There are aftermarket ones available so you could phone a few motor factors. The youth at the Toyota garage obviously didn't do too well at English but he is referring to the belt tensioner rather than a tensioner belt. All the details are on this bulletin and it will zoom in by clicking on the black bar or you can save it to your hard drive;

You can see that the length of the spring should be not more than 46mm but if in any doubt just get a new one. It may come with the tensioner but just check with Kingo.

Good luck

[Uncle Bob]

You can buy the parts from parts_king and he will have them delivered to you at a discounted price. There are aftermarket ones available so you could phone a few motor factors. The youth at the Toyota garage obviously didn't do too well at English but he is referring to the belt tensioner rather than a tensioner belt. All the details are on this bulletin and it will zoom in by clicking on the black bar or you can save it to your hard drive;

You can see that the length of the spring should be not more than 46mm but if in any doubt just get a new one. It may come with the tensioner but just check with Kingo.

Good luck

Sly in answer to one of your earlier questions, you will see looking at Anchormans photo above that the engine only has one timing cam pulley, your engine is a twin cam but the two cams work of a linked gear, so one can runs off the pulley and the other cam works from gear to gear, so no need to buy a pulley locking kit :)

[Uncle Bob]

Just done a bit of homework on aftermarket parts by Blueprint-ADL, they make a timing belt kit and includes 1 belt and two pulleys ( 1 adjuster pulley and one fixed idle pulley ) part number is ADT37308, you can look up a local Blueprint trade counter on this site http://www.blueprint-adl.com/ just select country ,then post code, good luck :)

[bothwell_buyer]

So, I picked the car up today, £85 worse off, they did clean it for me though, worth every penny!

The report said "CARRIED OUT VSR FOUND TENTIONER (Yes, with a T!?) BELT BROKEN ADVISED REPLACEMENT OF CAMBELT, TENTIONER AND DRIVE BELT. CUSTOMER DECLINED - ADVISED UNDRIVEABLE IN OUR OPINION"

I've worked out that VSR means Visual Safety Report but wasn't aware of a tensioner belt? Being a Saturday there was only a pretty sales boy in a suit who didn't have a clue. Just looked through Bothwell's Ravcam photos and they explain it all pretty well but nomention of a belt? Any ideas?

Also Bothwell Buyer, it mentions measuring the spring length and comparing against the specifications somewhere else in your book, couldn't be an angel and look that length up for me could you please. I know you've done enough already so pretty please. (Gotta keep you sweet cos I'malmost certainly gonna need more help when I start the job!)

The part numebrs they've quoted that I need are as follows, any suggestions on where to get them from at a sensible price would be appreciated.

Cambelt- 13568-09041

Tensioner- 13505-74011

Alt Drive Belt- 90916-02355.83

Thanks again.

Sly

I've lent my manual out to a young lassie in Glasgow the noo so I'll need to get hold of another source!!

[slymiloni]

Okay it's done!

Thanks for the parts advice but I ended up getting a belt and tensioner from Halfords on my trade card quite reasonable.

I got it done second time around! Fist attempt I followed the procedure in Bothwell's ravcam pics and got as far as the pulley bolt. That is f@$^*"g tight and I didn't have a breaker bar at the time! I resorted to the starter motor method and broke my ratchet handle then a big 19mm spanner. So I put the engine mount and top cover and PS resevoir and everything else back on and went to buy some new tools (from Halfords on my trade card!)

Second time round I did it in 5 hours, had pulley problems along the way which took up the bulk of this, but I devised a cunning pulley removal method which I'll explain in a minute.

So Sly's seven super tips to anyone trying this themselves are:

1. Make sure you have a decent 19mm socket and a breaker bar.

2. Attempt to slacken the pulley nut before removing the engine mount. It is quite unnerving swinging from your toyota with the engine loose at one end, also if you don't manage to get it off you haven't lost several knuckles taking apart the top section! That starter cranking method really works but remember to pull the HT leads first. (No I didn't do that!)

3. When removing the engine mount bracket make sure your ratchet handle can be reversed in situ! It's tight in there and you wind it out thinking what a clever boy you are until you try to remove your handle. (Yes, I did do that!) You'll get the bracket in and out easier from below if you swing your power steering motor right back as far as it will go (belt off first.)

4. Definitely buy a new tensioner spring! It's only £3 for Toyota. I don't know what the rubber tube inside it is for though, but I left it in just in case!?

5. The tensioning process in Bothwells ravcam photos worked a treat. I did back the crankshaft off half a tooth just to get the belt on at the top with the tension at the front then put it back making sure it didn't move the cam sprocket. I found that without this I couldn't get enough tension in the front part of the belt, needed to pull it another half tooth.

6. Make sure you only turn the crankshaft clockwise when tensioning. It all slips if you go the other way and sounds quite nasty as well!? And the camshaft timing mark is hard to see without a mirror and torch so I used a marker and marked one tooth that was lined up with a notch at about one o'clock. That notch moves from one o'clock as it's part of the cam sprocket duh! I will make a mark on the cover in future.

7. Have a plan how to get your cranshaft pulley off. Either have the right kind of puller, a vibration damper one!? or devise something like I did!

I borrowed a crankshaft pulley tool but it had 3 wings and wouldn't go with the two opposing holes in my pulley. I tried prying it but there's a lot of plastic under there that isn't in quite such good condition as it used to be and there's a 5mm chip out of the back ring (pulley's quite brittle evidently) and my pulley didn't move! Some of the other forums mention people making up plates of metal or bits of wood so I came up with this...

Put a bolt about 2" long in each hole in the pulley leaving the pulley nut fitted. Pack them out with washers followed by a washer big enough to catch on the pulley nut washer. Wind the pulley nut out (you'll have wanted to loosen this first) and when the big washer stops on it's threads it will slowly pull out your pulley. Ingenious! I got a bit cocky and sheared one of my bolts off though which I tried to drill out and hammered a torx bit in (they're normally quite good for removeing sheared bolts) but that sheared as well. Not so easy to drill that out then so now my pulley has half a bolt, a bit of torx and a bit of drill in it! Don't think it will affect the balance too much!? By the time that sheared I had enough room to get a couple of claw hammers behind it and gently ease it off. If you had a big nut to fit on your pulley bolt this would give a bit more pull as it could take some of the movement out of the washer and protect the last two or three threads, not that they're needed. I'll try to add a photo...

Hope this helps someone or just gives someone a laugh even at my expense!?

The upshot is though that I spent about £100 and got some new Halfords professional sockets and a 2ft breaker bar. It took a while but I could do it quicker now and Toyota wanted £400+ to do it. Oh and it runs perfectly with no horrible rattling noise which proves it must have been coming from the tensioner. My ignition key stilldoesn't work though, I have to use the master, does anyone know how to recode that?!

Thanks for listening, Sly.

[anchorman]

Thanks for going to the trouble to relate the process in such detail.

I'm sure it will be useful for others.

Regards