Vvti Knock, Out Of Warrenty

[jenko1402]

HI everyone.

Thanks to the information everyone posted to me on this website i was able to sort my engine knock out for £450, and heres how.

I have a 7 and half year old MR2 with 70,000 miles on the clock.

When i noticed my engine was knocking i was told by many garages that the big ends had gone, and if i kept driving the car it would ''put a leg out of bed'' so to speak.

I got various quotes and was looking at £1,300 labour plus parts, and i really cannot afford that. I also looked at trying to PX the car but it really is worth nothing as it stood with a dodgy engine.

After reading about the extended warrenty on this site i decided to go and see TOYOTA and see if there was any le-way on the 7 years/125,000 miles extended warrenty.

BEWARE - DONT BE FOOLED, THIS IS NOT AN EXTENDED WARRENTY, IT IS A GOOD WILL GESTURE, THEY DO NOT HAVE TO DO IT IF OVER 5 YEARS OLD!

As expected there is no le-way what so ever. I even asked to speak to TOYOTA MANUFACTURING and they would not budge, not even on a contribution to the costs,,, i was told;

''The 7years/125,000 miles, is a ''good will gesture'' and we are stricktly sticking to this, where do you draw the line?''.

I personally feel that this is fair enough and so i was back to square 1.

After speaking to the nice chap at my local dealer (Ron Brookes Ilkeston) He said the problem was definatly the SHELLS on the big ends, and it would be worth a go changing them as it is a common problem. The problem starts with the 3rd piston ring, as it sticks, letting oil pass draining the oil leaving the engine dry.

Heres my ROUGH price list

Labour £300

Shells £ 50

oil change and filter £ 40

TOTAL was around £450 inc VAT

The reason this is so cheap is because they do not have to take the engine out. They can simply drop off the sump and get to the engine that way.

TOYOTA had my car for 1 Day,,,,,,,,, YES 1 DAY !!! and i got a courtesy car.

Honestly, since getting my car back, the rattle has gone, and all i have to worry about is bedding the new shells in by driving normally (or slow to me) for 500 miles, then do an engine flush, and refill with new oil.

From there all i have to do is check my oil once every 2 weeks (just to be safe)

If you have read this out of interest, and have a VVTi engine (not just in the MR2) please please please keep checking your oil. My VVTi used a full tank of oil in under 2 months causing this common problem.

Also i would like to add, if TOYOTA find any damage to the CRANK when they will do the job, they will inform you that you need a new engine or continue with the job agree'd and there will be a ZERO warranty. So get it to TOYOTA as soon as you hear the sound or you'll damage the crank! ££££££££££££££££££

I hope people find this helpfull for those who have VVTI's out of the 'good wil gesture'.

£450 is nothing compared to all other options, not too mention the sleepless night i had worrying about all those thousands i would have to spend.

Please let me know if any1 finds this usefull, because i would like to think i have saved someone else the hassel i went through.

Essay over lol

Jenko1402

[Karma Supra]

Sorry to say it but that sounds like a bodge to me.

If you have had a big end knock, you have had metal on metal contact, the crack journel surfaces will be damaged and will either need refinishing or replacing if you are to do it properly.

Also if you say the problem was initially caused by piston rings, why was that not addressed?

[curriedb]

Sorry to learn about your problems.

However, Jenko, I have to agree with K.S.

You said: "The problem starts with the 3rd piston ring, as it sticks, letting oil pass draining the oil leaving the engine dry."

...yet they do not appear to have addressed the piston ring issue...or am I missing something? :(

[GIDDLEPIN]

Oh dear!

I don't know if you read this reply on another post but it explains what a 3rd piston ring (Oil control ring) does.

Hi Matt

Sorry to hear of your troubles and I'll try to answer as best I can.

Do all mr2 s have precats? Yes they do

What the hell did they check and give the all ok to, on the last visit? I would hope they actually knew what they were looking for and if not you will need to take this up with them.

And what are my options (really dont want to pay them £1050 for a new cat) e.g Is it illegal to drive without a cat? Can I get the job done cheaper? I don't know if you read my SLAPA IS POORLY post but it does explain a couple of the problems I suffered and the resulting repairs, one of them being a new sports cat. Like you I needed a new cat and after looking at various options from new (you know how much) to second hand (anywhere from £200 to £500) The sportscat option cost me £175.

Regarding the precat scare stories, I have never agreed with the opinion that they destroy engines, I know they can break up but this is usually after engine damage is already done, one of the main causes being early (pre 2002 I think) piston ring design, below are a couple of bits of information regarding this.

...and removed. You can see the varnsh / gum / tar mixture that binded the rings up and caused oil usage

Nearly finished cleaning stuff up. To be continued soon.....

A prime demonstration of why a good synthetic is a good idea. I have never seen so much gunk on the inside of an engine owned by me. Having said that, I have seen a lot more on engines owned by others that I have rebuilt. Could it bet that the famous precat failure is caused by gummed oil control rings?

Chris

Wear due to piston side-load

Piston rings are subject to wear as they move up and down the cylinder bore. To minimize this, they are made of wear resistant materials such as cast iron and steel and coated or treated to enhance the wear resistance. Two-stroke port design is critical to ring life. Newer modern motorcycle manufacturers have many single function but sererated ports to retain the ring. Typically, top ring and oil control rings will be coated with Chromium, or Nitrided-possibly plasma sprayed or have a PVD (physical vapour deposit) ceramic coating. For enhanced scuff resistance and further improved wear, most modern diesel engines have top rings coated with a modified chromium coating known as CKS, a patent coating from Goetze. The lower oil control ring is designed to leave a lubricating oil film, a few micrometres thick on the bore,as the piston descends. Three piece oil rings, i.e. with two rails and one spacer, are used for four-stroke gasoline engines.

It is possible that the previous owner (if you are not the first owner) removed the precats because of these reports and the the dealer never checked, if so ther could be an issue with any claim because of the removal.

Or, the precats were intact when they examined them at your request and they have since broken up causing a blockage to the main cat, and depending on the year of your car you might have a claim, this would still cause some concern though as I said, they only break up for a reason.

Good luck with the outcome and please keep us informed.

Les

I'm afraid it sounds like your oil control ring has gummed up and you now have oval bores because of the lack of lubrication, re-shelling the bottom end will only delay the inevitable I'm afraid because even if you keep the oil topped up things are just going to get worse.

Les