Flat Battery

[Soeley]

Sorry David you have got me there. How would I do that?

[tarquin]

Firstly, think the meter you are using is ambiguous. we are not sure what scale does what.. certainly if you were drawing 7amps the Battery would be "flat" in a very short time .. You need to borrow a proper DC current meter. Most only go to 10amps if combined as a multimeter. Ideally you would have two. One to place in line with the Battery ( this can be done in line with the negative supply as well) instead disturbing the multi connections of the positive supply..And the other meter in volts mode across the Battery terminals. Then you can see how the battery voltage is doing whilst pulling power from the battery

David

[Soeley]

Right, thanks for the explanation. I can do that, I have more that one meter :)

I think you may have got the 7 amp from Craggle (post #21). My meter was actually showing a 2 amp draw.

[tarquin]

Still. To high mate. I can tell you. Leaving your car parked up with the radio on reasonably quietly for an hour,it times out,then put it back on for another 30 mins. Battery is to flat to start the car and thats only 3amp drawn

David

[Soeley]

Yes, totally agree it’s way too high. I might get chance to give it a go with the two meters tonight.

Got in car this morning, it’s been sat since Sunday afternoon, before I started it I checked the voltage as read by the ScanGauge, it was showing 11.3v. Started perfectly though.

[Soeley]

The car has been sat in the garage since Tuesday evening now (not my turn to drive this week) Scangauge reading (without switching anything on, interior light I'd left to the 'Off' position last week) for voltage was 7.5.

I decided to check the Battery aging with the Gunsons Testmeter (electronic hydrometer) and the needle didn't even move, so that translates to a n ancient Battery :(

I connected the Gunsons Testmeter same as last time to check the Battery leakage and it had dropped down to .05 amps from 2 amps I was getting last week (could this be due to the fact the voltage is so low, that what ever is draining it has partially shut down?). I also got my digital multimeter and got a reading 8.18v across the battery terminals. I think the slight rise in voltage could be due to disconnecting the battery completely and it stabilising?

Battery is now on charge, I checked all the cells and all are full.

Just wondering if it could be just the battery that is at fault? seeing as pulling all the fuses failed to stop the excessive drain.

[johnan]

Sounds like the Battery to me, as you have checked just about everything else as much as you can.

Classic Battery not holding charge case.

John

[Soeley]

I really hope so, that will be hopefully the quickest and cheapest repair. Going to do some more testing tomorrow with a fully charged Battery.

[Soeley]

So, been off work today (Flexi day ) so went to local Auto Electricians to get them to test the Battery, using a Hydrometer each cell was showing very low, and one in particular the float sank like a lead weight. So confirmation that the Battery is indeed had it's day.

Beginning off the week I started looking up Battery prices:

Halfords = No listing (was told to go to Toyota)

Local Auto Electricians = No listing

RAC = £105 fitted with 5 yr guarantee

Google search found an American site $50 and $110. The cheaper being w/o Stop Start, the dearer with Stop Start

Decided to give Toyota a call. Now get this £97 over the counter, take away and fit myself. If I let them fit it, Including VAT £75

So going tomorrow to have a new one fitted (never though the day would happen when I let someone else fit a car battery, but if it saves me £22!)

I did ask if the battery was covered under warranty. They said they would have to test it first. so will wait and see.

[johnan]

Lets hope that is the end of your woes!

A Battery should last more than 2 years, so it must be faulty and covered by the warranty unless they try to be difficult, which they will no doubt.

Crazy pricing, but take advantage of it! I remember when £20 was expensive for a Battery, but they only lasted as long as yours has, normally, then.

John

[Soeley]

Well what a good Do!

Mr T replaced the Battery under warranty and did a leakage test and said there was no draw on the Battery.

[johnan]

Excellent news!

Sounds like they were not surprised at a Battery failing so soon, something we should all be prepared for perhaps!

[craggle]

Have you owned the car from new Mark?

Just wondering as you can't really judge a Battery failing simply on it's age.

Lead acid batteries do not like being discharged so if a previous owner flattened it in the past and simply jump started it again the damage could have been done then. Likewise a car in a showroom with the doors opened occasionally, people playing with the lights Etc. before deciding to buy the car will also flatten a Battery over time.

I often wondered how long the cars take to arrive in the new owners hands after being built in Japan, stored, shipped to the UK, stored, sent to the dealer, stored, sold to a customer. It could be many months of inactivity before they start to be used properly. Also short journeys, Electrical loads Etc, They all have a bearing on the life of a Battery.

Not saying you did anything wrong and a good result that they replaced it, Sure the new one will last many more years. :)

Craig.

[johnan]

I agree with you Craig about believing batteries (lead/acid) do not like to be run down too far and recharged if it can be avoided, but my brother used to be the electical officer on conventional submarines, and he said they had a service procedure than ran the subs batteries right down before recharging them, on a regular basis, to keep them in good condition.

Those batteries are lead/acid too, but bigger and lots of them!

We can't all be right, I wonder which method is preferable?

John

[Soeley]

Craig, she was nine months old when I bought her with a little over 2300 miles on the clock. He did say something about the early models with Stop Start having some Battery issues and that the later models had a different Battery fitted. But he did sound a bit vague to tell the truth.

I am seriously considering having the Stop Start disabled when she goes in for a service at the end of December.

[craggle]

The stop start is no longer present on the new iQ3's. Not 100% sure why they disabled it but there must have been a reason. It still works on mine but then it's quite rare I'm in traffic so it rarely gets used.

I think it's a simple task to turn it off in the software when hooked up to the dealers computer. :)

Craig.

[tarquin]

All very interesting.,

I am convinced i killed mine or at least have sent it to an early grave. I discharged it down to about 3 volts by sitting with the radio on quietly for a long long time. Didnt even want to jump start at first. Had to leave parallel car on it for half an hour before trying again. The internal resistance had gone that low. This year it didnt like the cold weather either. Btw Mark i got quoted the same price as you. I used to have a. Fiat X19, that had a marelli Battery that came with it, lasted 8 and a half years. Halfords replacement lasted 2. What can i say

David

[Soeley]

Flat Battery again today :ffs:

Since having new Battery under warranty end of last August, I have had no trouble with it starting what so ever. Got in this morning and she started up perfectly, drove out of garage and switch off to get some tools and put in the boot. So about 5 minutes after initial start up, I started her up again, not quite on the button but put it down to only just being cold started and switched off almost straight away. Drove round to my Mums house (just around the corner) did some work for a couple of hours and loaded the boot up with more tools. Came to start the engine and nothing! Scangauge wouldn't even come on so couldn't see Battery voltage. The only sound I got was a stuttering starter relay.

Had to get my son to come round with other car and jump start it, but even then it didn't want to start straight away. I did wonder if the starter motor could be stuck? Give the car a good push whilst in gear, then managed to get her going (don't know if the push did anything?) and went down to a good local car shop where the tested battery and alternator charge and said both seemed perfectly normal, which I expected to tell the truth. He said it could be a bad earth?

I just want it to do it next time in my garage where I can instantly put a volt meter on the battery, and try different earth points in turn.

[tarquin]

Mark

I have had similar problems.

Firstly, i did not have any problems until a year after i bought the car and was sitting with the engine off listening to the radio. It timed out and i put it on again for another half hour. Not loud just listenable. When i tried to start it got the usual chattering so had to get a jump start from my wife. After a week or so at night i noticed the lights flickering at idle and cold mornings finished the Battery off. I bought another Battery from a local dealer same capacity etc etc. A couple of weeks later the car just about started one morning, be it a cold morning but it never really gets cold near London. Drove it around and was good. I thought something was draining it and the only added item direct off the Battery was my Heads up display off the OBD2 socket. So disconnected that and it hasn't done it since. But saying that i have reconnected the HUD weeks ago so don't think its that unless it sometimes doesn't go into sleep mode. I think these small batteries are not up to much. Also this "intelligent " charging may be problematic. The jury is out on mine at the moment.

David

[FROSTYBALLS]

The stop start is no longer present on the new iQ3's. Not 100% sure why they disabled it but there must have been a reason.

Toyota probably haven't disabled the stop/start on new IQ's. They decided it was too expensive to fit on the current range of the Yaris - so have probably decided the same for the IQ.

[Soeley]

Just to add, it started perfectly this morning. Since having the new Battery last August, I always switch the Stop Start off with the dash button.

[tarquin]

I dont have stop start

With ref to poor earth, it certainly isn't a bad earth for not turning over, thats because the voltage/ capacity is low. Why its low could be poor earthing but that would suggest poor charging and that should through up an alarm. I think it doesn't like taking 300-400 Amps being taken out of the Battery often and doesn't recover as quick as a larger capacity one

David

[vox]

I had numerous Battery problems with my Smart. I got ripped off by the AA once and that made sure I will never buy anything from them again. Anyway I found two companies that supply really good standard and uprated batteries for sensible prices with up to 5 year warranties. I hope it's OK to post the url's on here as I can't seem to find the rules anywhere. My apologies if I'm not supposed to do this. I hope I don't need to say I have no connection with either of these companies. Both provide really good service.

http://www.tayna.co.uk/

http://www.advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/index

All these batteries are of very high quality and some may seem a little expensive, (like the 60 Ah Varta for the Aygo/IQ) but they are the best quality. I have used both companies for my self and neighbours, never having any problems with any of the batteries supplied by them. Both are also very helpful if you feel the need to phone them.

[tarquin]

Thanks for that VOX

Mark, had another starting problem today I think this time i had my foot on the break (multi drive) and pressed the start button but was distracted and as the engine was attempting to start i released my foot slightly. the engine struggled and cut out, I left it a minute or so and tried again. it acted like it had flooded and sounded like the starter was dis engaging from the flywheel then back on again sounding like chattering finally firing properly and starting It seems that you have to have your foot on the brake to initially start the starting process or your inhibited, but if you take your foot off half way through or at least until its got to a certain stage then some of the starting circuitry is disconnected and it doesn't start but floods.

David

[vox]

That noise your hearing David is the starter motor pre
engage solenoid chattering. Two causes, the most common is an knackered, or
underpowered Battery, or a bad cable connection, not necessarily the earth.

The Battery the AA supplied me lasted less than a week, but

the non AA idiot they sent out said it was OK, so I used the wife's car and
took the Battery to my mate that has a Smart garage and his very expensive
electronic battery tester said it was knackered. At least one cell NBG.

I then bought a 64 Ah battery from Tayna and all was well

and stayed that way even after five weeks of being unused and that's a car with
auto locking and an alarm/immobiliser.

It sounds to me like a duff battery, there are loads of them

around, even my mate with the Smart garage got caught with some Bosch branded
batteries that were probably made in China and sold as the real thing. He
bought them from a reputable wholesaler that did replace them, so, you can see
how easy it is to get caught.

One of the batteries that Tayna do that fits the IQ with

auto stop/start is expensive, but it's made especially for that type of fuel
saving system. If the wrong battery was fitted it could explain why Mark is
having all these hassles. I'm only making a suggestion here and don't want to
tread on any toes, but I was a qualified auto mechanic.