Avensis T180 Any Good?

[adamtse]

Hi

My name is Adam and I live in Birmingham. I currently have a civic type R premier but looking to buy something bigger and more frugal to go with my growing family. I used to own a Yaris and registered here years ago, so i know what it is like having a Toyota. I've done some research and narrowed it down to the 06 plate Avensis T180.

My knowledge of this is only limited to its specs and performance figures. I wonder if you wise people can tell me whether this is a good choice. Any major or common issues I should know about? When I view the car anything I should look out for in particular?

The first thread I read about this model was someone blowing the head gasket, not a good impression at all.

Any advice, suggestions or even recommendations on a quick frugal family car (£9k budget)is appreciated.

Ad

here is what my type r looks like:

[OldSkoO1]

Hi

My name is Adam and I live in Birmingham. I currently have a civic type R premier but looking to buy something bigger and more frugal to go with my growing family. I used to own a Yaris and registered here years ago, so i know what it is like having a Toyota. I've done some research and narrowed it down to the 06 plate Avensis T180.

My knowledge of this is only limited to its specs and performance figures. I wonder if you wise people can tell me whether this is a good choice. Any major or common issues I should know about? When I view the car anything I should look out for in particular?

The first thread I read about this model was someone blowing the head gasket, not a good impression at all.

Any advice, suggestions or even recommendations on a quick frugal family car (£9k budget)is appreciated.

Ad

here is what my type r looks like:

I really like my t180 still, after 3 years

Check the coolant level. If the head gasket has gone that pink coolant will be low. Its back left in the engine bay.

Check for excess white smoke when driving, over 2k RPM (keep revs over 2k for a while)

EGR valves can also become problematic. They get filled with soot and so does the intake as their job is to re-introduce exhaust gasses back into the combustion chamber. Doing this creates soot and therefore it all gets clogged up. (Blame the euro reg's which are forcing manufacturers to reduce nox gasses. The EGR re-uses this nox gas along with air and the compression of this gas almost gets rid of it as it explodes and burns away. As its a lower temperature it leaves soot).

It probably needs a clean and decoke every 3 years by the garage (at your request). If it is left you may experience limp mode which is when the car doesn't rev past about 2k. Simply because it can't breath. You may get black smoke excess before this as more fuel is injected to try and generate the power you request. Blocked EGR's can also give very rough idle's or difficulty in starting. It should be pretty quiet on idle and no shaking or vibrations. Be very vary of any dealer that demo's a car to you with engine already warmed off cold.

Also against there dread put it in a high gear at about 1.2k RPM and start to accelerate. If you experience any significant vibrations or judder the DMF maybe on its way out. This is £1,000+ job and is usually changed with your clutch. Normally need replacing about 70-80k. Well looked after cars maybe 120-150k.

The only other problem is some 2.2 engines have high oil consumption due to a certain type of piston used. So check oil level on flat ground and check service history to see if it mentions high oil consumption. If it does and the pistons and cylinder head block haven't been changed you might want to ask your nearest toyota garage if this is covered under an extended warranty if the pistons need changing. At which point they will inspect the block for glazing or scoring and swap it out or hone it. Before anything of that happens you have to do an oil consumption test. Which involves topping up, driving 1,000 miles and re-checking oil level.

The only other thing i can think of is turbo bearings. If you get a rattle/pinging/ticking at 1.8k RPM it may be an indication of turbo bearing failure or be just as simple as a loose wiring loom or loose airbox. The nosie will emit from the left side of dash coming from the engine bay.

Now these are just about every comment / issue i've heard associated with the T180. Worth mentioning i thought.

Other people do complain about fuel consumption. Personally i have no issues. For example yesterday I averaged no less than 52mpg on my way back from work which was a 15 miles A-Road journey. That took about 25 mins i'd say. Then i hit town. 5 miles which took another 20 mins so you can see how slow it was. It averaged overall 47.3mpg. I know what the t180 can do. But for example, this morning, a frosty start through town and back to work i'm showing 42.8mpg now. No doubt this will raise on the way home as cold temps and slow town traffic make MPG plummet.

///ps. thats a really nice looking type-r... i bet you'll be sad to see that go.

Just noticed the last part of your post about suggestions. If you still wanted to keep some speed, if you can get past the image. An octavia VRS estate diesel, remapped can be a rocket. Quick even as standard. And pretty luxurious too. If you wanted to keep it simple a £1,500 old focus estate 1.9 TDDI will do 60mpg on a run, has enough space, has the old direct injection diesel engine, is simple and normally reliable. Very cheap to buy and run (IF in good condition because it can have a high MOT failture rate - but normally simple to fix and quite cheap). Then that leaves you 8-ish k to buy something more tasty maybe a cheaper type-r, scooby, supra, integra etc.

Other suggestions, Ford focus common rail, 2.2 150 toyota avensis, the remapped. Should see over 50mpg easily but with 170bhp. The old french diesels can be quite good but i would never go french personally. Even the skoda superb might be a good bet. Its a luxury car for very little money.

[tubaman]

Owned a 2006 model for 12 months now & really love it.

No major issues except front discs/pads need replacing at 35K miles - plenty of power (although you will feel like you have lost power), not bad on diesel & no problems with EGR valve BUT it does seem to depend what type of driving you do.

OldSkool seems to have summed it up very well - great/comfortable/large sofisticated car in my opinion

[tubaman]

Whats the DMF by the way ? (presumably clutch related)

[OldSkoO1]

Whats the DMF by the way ? (presumably clutch related)

DMF (dual mass flywheel) is essentially a 2 part spring disc that sits between the engine and the gears and the clutch is attached to the outside gear of the DMF providing a direct link to the transmission.

When the power stroke of the pistons compress the air and the fuel is injected an explosion is created. This causes significant vibrations when the power is created. The job of the dual mass flywheel is smooth out these power spikes to give a more constant flow of power through the transmission, to the wheels.

Normally when your clutch goes you also change the DMF as it's directly related. Also it is a very lengthy process as the engine has to be removed along with the gear box disconnection to the transmission and fluids drained. Its normally done at the same time and still it will cost in excess of £1,000 as there is so much labour involved.

[adamtse]

WOW thank you very much for the detail reply. It's exactly what I am looking for. However your list of problems, some major/expensive issues, sort of make me think twice about getting one. As I am not very mechanically minded I wouldn't know what's what. I was just hoping to get a Toyota, have it serviced by a reputable garage annually then it should provide me with many years of trouble free motoring.

I know that many car manufacturers have their own problems just like the problem prone clutch along with the flywheel could go on my Honda. But that doesn't cost me thousands.

I want to know if the things you have mentioned is specific to the model or the engine? As I might have to start looking at the Auris T180 instead. My criterias are under £9k, under 60k mileage, 5 years old max, preferbly german or jap, can be a petrol (good performance but dont cost more than my honda to run) or a powerful diesel.

[Bry]

Don't do it, check back through the forums, sure that will make your mind up. There are Toyota reps on here dont forget :!Removed!:

One of the worst cars I have ever owned, you get 37mpg average, thats a fact. They dont feel like 180 HP, more like 140. The aircon blows cold air on your face after a couple of miles, no matter how cold it is and how you set your temp, unless you set it to max. The auto lights do not come on when they should and the auto wipers will not wipe when they should and wipe when they shouldn't, the bluetooth phone connection if fitted is very erratic. The EGR will block up, injectors can fail (very expensive) OH and the carpet gets in the way of the throttle, I complained about this in October 2006!!! they showed me another and said they are all like that!!! I took it home and cut the carpet properly!!! Funny that one isn't it.

You can buy a golf 2.0 200HP petrol GTi, get about the same mpg with vastly superior performance and not have to worry about EGR's and DPF's blocking. Or keep the Honda you have which is much better too!

[adamtse]

I am surprised you are still driving the tourer

I think I am leaning towards the Honda Accord, Passat or Octavia now. I did think about Audi and BMW but my £9k is not enough to get a good example of anything. After weeks of research, I realise how little money I have and how small the quick family car selection is.

[Bry]

I do not have the T180 anymore, it took me 6 months to get rid of it at a huge loss, and that was before the "economic downturn"!

I agree with all of those choices, apart from maybe the Accord, bit boring, like the Avensis but no doubt a better diesel engine and more reliable. I put a year old CRV exec diesel in for the Avensis and got good money for it, its a nice engine and 50mpg in the Accord will be achievable, thats about 13 more than a T180, a lot over time! How about the Mazda 6?

[OldSkoO1]

I think it's mutually accepted that Bry is our resident T180 hater. He's entitled to his opinions.

The problems i wrote were not mean't to put you off, it was just a comprehensive list of every possibly conceivable problem.

The only specific problems to the t180 are blown head gasket (which also affects the 2.2 150bhp engines) and it only happens to very very few t180's (probably single figure percentages) and different batch of pistons that may have made it into a batch of vehicles (again highly unlikely). The pistons were from a different batch and can result in increased oil consumption. The rings can leak oil into the combustion stroke and send oil into the cat and exist as white smoke if it burns hot enough. I think both issues are covered by extended toyota warranties. But please check that.

ALL other issues i listed: EGR, DMF, black smoking, injector problems are all worst case and will happen on ANY modern common rail diesel and that's a fact. Each manufacturer have their own issues from fuel pump failures with Peugeots, even BMW had turbo failures and seal failures at very low miles. VAG are very prone to DPF blockages, a similar story with vauxhall. They get good economy usually because their DPF cycles are a lot more infrequent, relying on heat to shift the soot blockages. If you do motorway miles you have no problems as you consistently maintain max cylinder pressure on the m-way which creates a lot of heat. Ford were plagued by DMF failures recently, as were Renault. Fords also have injector problems.

Most modern common rail diesels are susceptible to a range of issues and it is not manufacturer specific. They are prone because they are injecting fuel under incredibly high pressures. With high pressure fuel rails and pumps. Diesel fuel lubricates the pumps and injectors and if you consistently run low on fuel and use poor quality fuel it can possibly lead to injector and pump issues eventually... We are talking like 100k miles plus. DMF issues occur as i said, 70k for poorly looked after cars but maybe 150k for well treated cars. EGR is just an ongoing maintenance thing. Not a major issue.

Infact toyota have fewer serious failure and a better reliability track record than other manufacturers across the board for all their sales of diesel cars.

The modern diesel engines are like this because of emissions regulations. I could suggest an older PD VAG diesel or TDDI ford (direct injection) which are cheaper to fix and less likely for serious failure because the arent as technical. They dont normally have diesel soot filters (DPF's) or EGR valves and they dont have expensive high pressure fuel rails or pumps. That why you always see skoda, Peugeot type taxi's. All running simple PD / direct injection diesel engines. However your looking over 100k miles and that mileage in itself can put you are highest risk of serious failure or even seal degradation.

Don't be put off by these failures. Many of us have had 10's of thousands of trouble free diesel motoring. Just compare the toyota boards to other manufacturers. Have a look at VAG... SEAT, Audi etc Even BMW you will see plenty of discussion about serious component failure. We get the odd person here with replaced injectors. Thats about as worse as it gets. Seriously. The t180 threads mainly talk about fuel consumption. Maybe the odd rattle or aircon smells etc. Basic stuff.

Not much talk of DMF failure but some of us in extreme cases get limp mode from blocked EGR. Something you can clear yourself for £5.

Sorry, i just dont have the ability to explain things simply in 3 sentences :D And i'm not a pessimist, honest. Just trying to give an honest overview. If the t180 you have found doesn't display any of these symptoms chances are it will be a beauty. I just recommend you read the t180 fuel consumption threads. Whilst i get 40+, most here typically average around 38-41.

[Bry]

Put your text book away, so where is all this from? I regularly read up on motoring issues and have never come across documentation of much if any of that.

This is from a guy who always jumps in to a post with a reply to say his car just had the same horrible problem, but it was just this or that simple fix, funny he never mentions his horrible problems when they are actually happening? :ffs:

He wont have anything bad said about a Toyota, wonder why?

[OldSkoO1]

Put your text book away, so where is all this from? I regularly read up on motoring issues and have never come across documentation of much if any of that.

This is from a guy who always jumps in to a post with a reply to say his car just had the same horrible problem, but it was just this or that simple fix, funny he never mentions his horrible problems when they are actually happening? :ffs:

He wont have anything bad said about a Toyota, wonder why?

I have plenty of negative opinions on toyota's. For a start they can be quite bland and not very exciting. I have had bad experiences with volkswagen, renault and Mercedes. I have bought toyotas recently because they have consistently served me well, unlike the other cars ive had.

I can't think of any any posts ive jumped in on stating i have that problem. My Auris t180 suffered from squealing brakes which were fixed under warranty. And after 3 years my EGR eventually became clogged which gave me a very rattly idle and a slight flat spot at 1.8k plus the occasional plume of smoke. Thats because i dont do much m-way miles <5%. Since cleaning the valve and then the intake manifold with some £5 carb spray its running as sweet as a nut.

[OldSkoO1]

Put your text book away, so where is all this from? I regularly read up on motoring issues and have never come across documentation of much if any of that.

This is from a guy who always jumps in to a post with a reply to say his car just had the same horrible problem, but it was just this or that simple fix, funny he never mentions his horrible problems when they are actually happening? :ffs:

He wont have anything bad said about a Toyota, wonder why?

I have plenty of negative opinions on toyota's. For a start they can be quite bland and not very exciting. I have had bad experiences with volkswagen, renault and Mercedes. I have bought toyotas recently because they have consistently served me well, unlike the other cars ive had.

I can't think of any any posts ive jumped in on stating i have that problem. My Auris t180 suffered from squealing brakes which were fixed under warranty. And after 3 years my EGR eventually became clogged which gave me a very rattly idle and a slight flat spot at 1.8k plus the occasional plume of smoke. Since cleaning the valve and then the intake manifold with some £5 carb spray its running as sweet as a nut.

Although their site is currently being re-done, HonestJohn a well respected, impartial car reviewer runs a technical discuss board where people from all makes and models post their problems. http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/threads.htm?f=4

As it's impartial and used by all manufacturers its a good place to see a fair cross section of the problems that plague each type of car.

[Pat2u]

My wife and i have owned our T180 tourer from new for nearly 3 years, the dealership called it in about possible oil loss, took/checked the oil level on the dipstick and told me to take it back after 1000 miles had been covered "we did and no oil loss" re other problems mentioned above i have had no such problems, the car is a car that will get you to where you want to go and is not a sluggish motor unless you are a boy racer type of driver, having said that i have used the gas pedal to get me past faster vehicles, and i can not fault its power however can be costly on the fuel if doing so, but we "wife & myself" do an average of 47/50 mpg motorway and urban driving.

To summerize we are very happy with the vehicle, i guess its down to the owner to respect and drive it well.

[Bry]

My wife and i have owned our T180 tourer from new for nearly 3 years, the dealership called it in about possible oil loss, took/checked the oil level on the dipstick and told me to take it back after 1000 miles had been covered "we did and no oil loss" re other problems mentioned above i have had no such problems, the car is a car that will get you to where you want to go and is not a sluggish motor unless you are a boy racer type of driver, having said that i have used the gas pedal to get me past faster vehicles, and i can not fault its power however can be costly on the fuel if doing so, but we "wife & myself" do an average of 47/50 mpg motorway and urban driving.

To summerize we are very happy with the vehicle, i guess its down to the owner to respect and drive it well.

OK, So explain to me how I could respect it and drive it well and if you get 47 to 50 out of a T180 tourer you have a world one off, needs putting in the guiness book.

I do 100K a year, and have not had problems with dozens of other cars, strange

I get 32 MPG out of a BMW 330i, 51 MPG out of a Vectra 150, 63 mpg out of a Peugeot 207 1.6 (ford/peugoet/mini 1560cc diesel engined) van and 31 MPG out of Ford Cougar 2.5 V6, Funny that, all slightly above official combined figures, still it must be the way i drive a Toyota, you must not crush that wrens egg on the throttle peddle

[OldSkoO1]

My wife and i have owned our T180 tourer from new for nearly 3 years, the dealership called it in about possible oil loss, took/checked the oil level on the dipstick and told me to take it back after 1000 miles had been covered "we did and no oil loss" re other problems mentioned above i have had no such problems, the car is a car that will get you to where you want to go and is not a sluggish motor unless you are a boy racer type of driver, having said that i have used the gas pedal to get me past faster vehicles, and i can not fault its power however can be costly on the fuel if doing so, but we "wife & myself" do an average of 47/50 mpg motorway and urban driving.

To summerize we are very happy with the vehicle, i guess its down to the owner to respect and drive it well.

adamtse to answer your question directly. Is the T180 any good.

Yes, in my opinion i love it. The engine is superb. Extremely quiet, refined and has bags of torque. Trust me i've surprised a few type-r owners because i'm able to really push on from little revs. Where as the type-r needs the right gear and to bounce of lift. I did have a little play a few times and the type-r is essentially quicker past a certain speed but the torque certainly puts me ahead to start with. Thats why i like it. Essentially a very comfortable but rapid cruiser with a great engine and not all that bad in the corners.

Its not given me any problems. Its only fair to expect some white smoking from a blocked EGR after 3 whole years of short-ish A-road / town journeys.

I still enjoy driving it which is more than can be said about jumping into the supercharged t-sport i drove before.

I felt i should reply with this personal experience of 3 years in a t180 because i concentrated too much on outlining every potential problem and feel now i might have been over zealous and put you off because apart from trivial blocked EGR's none of what i mentioned really gets mentioned around here.

I've never kept a car longer than 3 years. And i dont feel the urge to sell my t180. I'm going to be quite happy to keep it until 2012 when the FT-86 comes out.

[OldSkoO1]

My wife and i have owned our T180 tourer from new for nearly 3 years, the dealership called it in about possible oil loss, took/checked the oil level on the dipstick and told me to take it back after 1000 miles had been covered "we did and no oil loss" re other problems mentioned above i have had no such problems, the car is a car that will get you to where you want to go and is not a sluggish motor unless you are a boy racer type of driver, having said that i have used the gas pedal to get me past faster vehicles, and i can not fault its power however can be costly on the fuel if doing so, but we "wife & myself" do an average of 47/50 mpg motorway and urban driving.

To summerize we are very happy with the vehicle, i guess its down to the owner to respect and drive it well.

adamtse to answer your question directly. Is the T180 any good.

Yes, in my opinion i love it. The engine is superb. Extremely quiet, refined and has bags of torque. Trust me i've surprised a few type-r owners because i'm able to really push on from little revs. Where as the type-r needs the right gear and to bounce of lift. I did have a little play a few times and the type-r is essentially quicker past a certain speed but the torque certainly puts me ahead to start with. Thats why i like it. Essentially a very comfortable but rapid cruiser with a great engine and not all that bad in the corners.

Its not given me any problems. Its only fair to expect some white smoking from a blocked EGR after 3 whole years of short-ish A-road / town journeys.

I still enjoy driving it which is more than can be said about jumping into the supercharged t-sport i drove before.

I felt i should reply with this personal experience of 3 years in a t180 because i concentrated too much on outlining every potential problem and feel now i might have been over zealous and put you off because apart from trivial blocked EGR's none of what i mentioned really gets mentioned around here.

I've never kept a car longer than 3 years. And i dont feel the urge to sell my t180. I'm going to be quite happy to keep it until 2010 when the FT-86 comes out.

To top it off, i'm still on the original tyres at 30k! And the same pads and discs! I am getting a little low on tyres a few mm left but still safe.

A great ownership experience.

[Bry]

My wife and i have owned our T180 tourer from new for nearly 3 years, the dealership called it in about possible oil loss, took/checked the oil level on the dipstick and told me to take it back after 1000 miles had been covered "we did and no oil loss" re other problems mentioned above i have had no such problems, the car is a car that will get you to where you want to go and is not a sluggish motor unless you are a boy racer type of driver, having said that i have used the gas pedal to get me past faster vehicles, and i can not fault its power however can be costly on the fuel if doing so, but we "wife & myself" do an average of 47/50 mpg motorway and urban driving.

To summerize we are very happy with the vehicle, i guess its down to the owner to respect and drive it well.

adamtse to answer your question directly. Is the T180 any good.

Yes, in my opinion i love it. The engine is superb. Extremely quiet, refined and has bags of torque. Trust me i've surprised a few type-r owners because i'm able to really push on from little revs. Where as the type-r needs the right gear and to bounce of lift. I did have a little play a few times and the type-r is essentially quicker past a certain speed but the torque certainly puts me ahead to start with. Thats why i like it. Essentially a very comfortable but rapid cruiser with a great engine and not all that bad in the corners.

Its not given me any problems. Its only fair to expect some white smoking from a blocked EGR after 3 whole years of short-ish A-road / town journeys.

I still enjoy driving it which is more than can be said about jumping into the supercharged t-sport i drove before.

I felt i should reply with this personal experience of 3 years in a t180 because i concentrated too much on outlining every potential problem and feel now i might have been over zealous and put you off because apart from trivial blocked EGR's none of what i mentioned really gets mentioned around here.

I've never kept a car longer than 3 years. And i dont feel the urge to sell my t180. I'm going to be quite happy to keep it until 2010 when the FT-86 comes out.

To top it off, i'm still on the original tyres at 30k! And the same pads and discs! I am getting a little low on tyres a few mm left but still safe.

A great ownership experience.

Able to push on from little revs, you mean slip the clutch like hell to get over the 2K of turbo lag!!!

30K on tyres, sorry, beat that everytime, my Vectra fronts were changed at 41K the rears still have 5 mm at 45K

Wonder if the fact you will get nowt for your aris has something to do with you still having it, strongly suspect it has

[OldSkoO1]

My wife and i have owned our T180 tourer from new for nearly 3 years, the dealership called it in about possible oil loss, took/checked the oil level on the dipstick and told me to take it back after 1000 miles had been covered "we did and no oil loss" re other problems mentioned above i have had no such problems, the car is a car that will get you to where you want to go and is not a sluggish motor unless you are a boy racer type of driver, having said that i have used the gas pedal to get me past faster vehicles, and i can not fault its power however can be costly on the fuel if doing so, but we "wife & myself" do an average of 47/50 mpg motorway and urban driving.

To summerize we are very happy with the vehicle, i guess its down to the owner to respect and drive it well.

OK, So explain to me how I could respect it and drive it well and if you get 47 to 50 out of a T180 tourer you have a world one off, needs putting in the guiness book.

I do 100K a year, and have not had problems with dozens of other cars, strange

I get 32 MPG out of a BMW 330i, 51 MPG out of a Vectra 150, 63 mpg out of a Peugeot 207 1.6 (ford/peugoet/mini 1560cc diesel engined) van and 31 MPG out of Ford Cougar 2.5 V6, Funny that, all slightly above official combined figures, still it must be the way i drive a Toyota, you must not crush that wrens egg on the throttle peddle

I got 52mpg just the other day, on the way home.

Regardless of what i say you won't believe me but i don't drive like i have an egg under the peddle. I drive my t180 how its meant to be driven. Accelerate quite hard between max torque. Not only does the engine like load it is also most efficient driven like this. Low frictional losses and high volumetric efficiency between max torque. I.E. creating power for the least amount of fuel used. The quicker you get up to cruising speed in this range the more fuel efficient you will be. I aim for 1.6-1.7k on the flat and 2k+ to accelerate or go up hill. And once or twice a day visiting max power at 3.8k.

I'm not turning this into a T180 mpg debate. Frankly i dont care. I get what i get and i'm happy. From what i remember, your biggest problem was MPG for your mileage. What you got wasn't even that bad. 7-8% less than official. And it was in-line with 170bhp VAG's which are 2.0 capacity not 2.2 litres like the t180 and the VAGs have 10bhp less and less torque yet they return very similar low 40's MPG. I'm simply not getting into it again.

Maybe have some respect and not turn this thread into an entire t180 bashing thread. This guy is looking to buy a family car for good reasons. He's got to give up his very nice type-r and have your say but don't keep chipping away at it with hate.

[tubaman]

Bry, you are sinking fast - you havn`t got a clue mate !

You are trying to make out that the T180 is crap when most people that own one know damned well that it isnt. You are trying to tell us that all T180`s are poor based on your experience with one T180.

You just simply are not objective - give it a rest as you are getting boring now

[Bry]

My wife and i have owned our T180 tourer from new for nearly 3 years, the dealership called it in about possible oil loss, took/checked the oil level on the dipstick and told me to take it back after 1000 miles had been covered "we did and no oil loss" re other problems mentioned above i have had no such problems, the car is a car that will get you to where you want to go and is not a sluggish motor unless you are a boy racer type of driver, having said that i have used the gas pedal to get me past faster vehicles, and i can not fault its power however can be costly on the fuel if doing so, but we "wife & myself" do an average of 47/50 mpg motorway and urban driving.

To summerize we are very happy with the vehicle, i guess its down to the owner to respect and drive it well.

OK, So explain to me how I could respect it and drive it well and if you get 47 to 50 out of a T180 tourer you have a world one off, needs putting in the guiness book.

I do 100K a year, and have not had problems with dozens of other cars, strange

I get 32 MPG out of a BMW 330i, 51 MPG out of a Vectra 150, 63 mpg out of a Peugeot 207 1.6 (ford/peugoet/mini 1560cc diesel engined) van and 31 MPG out of Ford Cougar 2.5 V6, Funny that, all slightly above official combined figures, still it must be the way i drive a Toyota, you must not crush that wrens egg on the throttle peddle

I got 52mpg just the other day, on the way home.

Regardless of what i say you won't believe me but i don't drive like i have an egg under the peddle. I drive my t180 how its meant to be driven. Accelerate quite hard between max torque. Not only does the engine like load it is also most efficient driven like this. Low frictional losses and high volumetric efficiency between max torque. I.E. creating power for the least amount of fuel used. The quicker you get up to cruising speed in this range the more fuel efficient you will be. I aim for 1.6-1.7k on the flat and 2k+ to accelerate or go up hill. And once or twice a day visiting max power at 3.8k.

I'm not turning this into a T180 mpg debate. Frankly i dont care. I get what i get and i'm happy. From what i remember, your biggest problem was MPG for your mileage. What you got wasn't even that bad. 7-8% less than official. And it was in-line with 170bhp VAG's which are 2.0 capacity not 2.2 litres like the t180 and had 10bhp less and less torque. I'm simply not getting into it again.

Maybe have some respect and not turn this thread into an entire t180 bashing thread. This guy is looking to buy a family car for good reasons. He's got to give up his very nice type-r and have your say but don't keep chipping away at it with hate.

You did just that..... Turned it into a debate!

Frictional loss is directly proportional to engine revs and road speed, engine wise, combustion efficiency is most important to economy against engine revs, that includes avoiding back pressure in a diesel caused by a DPF and then ditching expensive diesel into the exhaust pipe trying to clean the sackless thing!!! However, with other vehicles you dont have to do a science degree to get another 2mpg. You dont have to think about driving techniqes, change at exactly something .0001 revs etc etc, they generally do what they say on the tin, without pathetic excuses, my experience tells me its a T180 (only) problem.

I had to buy a T180 based on what Toyoya claimed,it was a brand new model, there was nobody like me and many others on here to provide much more reliable information, I suffered, the car was crap, no comparison to manufacturers claims. If I had the benefit of this forum, I would not have bought it.

I believe that if he gives up a Type R for a T180, he will be very dissapointed, end off.

[Bry]

Bry, you are sinking fast - you havn`t got a clue mate !

You are trying to make out that the T180 is crap when most people that own one know damned well that it isnt. You are trying to tell us that all T180`s are poor based on your experience with one T180.

You just simply are not objective - give it a rest as you are getting boring now

"Sinking Fast" "Not Got a Clue" "not objective (too many management meetings.. MATE)"...... what qualifies you to be a judge! it s that boring that you must read it!

[adamtse]

After a day of absence and this is what I get. :eek:

Now play nice guys. I really appreciate your comments both positive and negative. All have been taken on board and I am still at the ''thinking'' stage.

There will be disappointment to a certain degree after getting rid of my Honda. It has served me really well. Now that I got a 2 months old daughter, changing to a bigger car is inevitable. I am aware I will never experience the thrill the Type R provides in a family car unless I have money to burn by buying a RS4 or something. With £9k a powerful diesel will have to do and I am sure my family will appreciate this move.

Yesterday I sat in my friend's 2 Litre Avensis, I am surprised how big and how good the build quality is. I can honestly say it's better than my Honda. Old School you did give me a fright with all those problems, but your previous post plus the viewing yesterday gives me a really good impression of the car. I think I might give it a go.

Now my main worry is that I won't be able to spot all those problems during viewing if I buy privately. Would you think it's a good idea to purchase a slightly overpriced one from the dealer so the warranty can provide a peace of mind for at least 12 months?

Just what can £9k get? perhaps an 56 plate with 50k on it if I am lucky?

[Pat2u]

Bry, sorry but you seem to be turning this thread into a slagging match, if you no longer own a T180 how can you make any fruitful or any comments on the vehicle ?

We all know that every vehicle has faults and vauxhalls have more than most and i have had several from new all been back into the dealerships within the first 6/7 month of owning one mainly with engine managment lights coming on and i would never own one again or even think about it.

Toyota dealerships that i have dealt with over the past 12 years have been the best in everyway from sales to after care, it seems to me that you are hell bent on saying different all because you had chosen a vehicle that has and did not come up to your own personal specs, and as i have already said if you do not have it now then i feel you can not comment on ownership related problems good or bad.

I find our vehicle very reliable and during the ownership of it i can not fault it and if i do i will post any probs i have for members to read for future referances.

[Pat2u]

After a day of absence and this is what I get.

Now play nice guys. I really appreciate your comments both positive and negative. All have been taken on board and I am still at the ''thinking'' stage.

There will be disappointment to a certain degree after getting rid of my Honda. It has served me really well. Now that I got a 2 months old daughter, changing to a bigger car is inevitable. I am aware I will never experience the thrill the Type R provides in a family car unless I have money to burn by buying a RS4 or something. With £9k a powerful diesel will have to do and I am sure my family will appreciate this move.

Yesterday I sat in my friend's 2 Litre Avensis, I am surprised how big and how good the build quality is. I can honestly say it's better than my Honda. Old School you did give me a fright with all those problems, but your previous post plus the viewing yesterday gives me a really good impression of the car. I think I might give it a go.

Now my main worry is that I won't be able to spot all those problems during viewing if I buy privately. Would you think it's a good idea to purchase a slightly overpriced one from the dealer so the warranty can provide a peace of mind for at least 12 months?

Just what can £9k get? perhaps an 56 plate with 50k on it if I am lucky?

I would take a look on the toyota forecourts, prices are down i guess at the moment and you can always haggle " no saleman will let you walk away" i was amazed at some forecourt prices i looked at just before xmas but as always make sure the vehicle has not been owned by toyota these can be hired or demo cars and had many drivers, it cost nothing to look and you may be supprised whats on offer.