New Auris Hybrid Opinions

[cuius]

It is interesting to speculate if all existing cars were automatic, and somebody "invented" a manual gear-box as a supposed economy device or driving-pleasure experience. The chances of it catching on would be very low, assuming the safety experts were happy with a mechanism that required you to let go of the steering wheel with one hand periodically to change gears

[Heidfirst]

"So why have Toyota phased out the IQ with it's CVT auto and introduced the new Aygo with one of those heinous automated manuals that the French manufacturers seem to love. Even the Toyota dealers say to avoid them. :("

because as you know the economics of building them in Japan & shipping them to Europe in small nos. was not profitable.

The Aygo beneath the skin is shared with Citroen & Peugeot & built in the same factory in Eastern Europe. They sell multiples of the volume of Aygos so probably had a bit more clout in some design decisions (& I suspect that the % of auto Aygos v manual is probably small).

[kithmo]

"Auto-drivers on the other hand tend to be people that just want to get from A to B with the minimum of fuss and effort. (Or are old and/or american :P). I'm sure if you did a survey on people that really want self-driving cars, it would be similar to people that prefer autos over manuals ;)"

That's me now.

Since the introduction of the lower speed limits of 40 mph and 50 mph etc. on major A-roads, that used to be 60 mph and 70 mph on dual carriageways, together with the introduction of more and more speed cameras, there's no where you can enjoy a thrash through the gears anymore except on a track.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

"So why have Toyota phased out the IQ with it's CVT auto and introduced the new Aygo with one of those heinous automated manuals that the French manufacturers seem to love. Even the Toyota dealers say to avoid them. :("

because as you know the economics of building them in Japan & shipping them to Europe in small nos. was not profitable.

The Aygo beneath the skin is shared with Citroen & Peugeot & built in the same factory in Eastern Europe. They sell multiples of the volume of Aygos so probably had a bit more clout in some design decisions (& I suspect that the % of auto Aygos v manual is probably small).

It's about a 1/3 of sales, so not insignificant, or at least was for the IQ. It's not just old biddies in their 80's that drive them.

Toyota have lost a sale when our IQ is due replacement this coming October, or at least have unless we get a good deal on the Yaris hsd. Won't touch an automated manual, especially one that has some French design decisions in it somewhere.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The petrol Yaris auto is a CVT - so you could consider that as a replacement for the IQ.

[dcweather]

I suppose the jibes about "old" people and autos have an element of truth in them. Being one though, I think I can rationalise it better. Firstly having driven nearly a million miles in a manual I am going to buy an auto shortly. Firstly I am sick to death of using the clutch in traffic jams. My current Skoda also has an engine management system that doesn't understand that you are not about to stall in second gear and that you will slip the clutch. Its solution to that is to try and accelerate you into the car in front by increasing the revs to stop you from (what it thinks) is about be a to stall. I never considered an auto in the past because the fuel consumption in a torque converted auto was a lot lower than an already poor figure. Maintenance and repair costs were horrendous and I could only afford older cars then.

Then my wife got an auto Micra (K12 2004-2010). I thought it was CVT but now I'm not sure. It was an absolute dream to drive and I always used it round town. It was 100% reliable for 7 years. So now we have bought the hybrid Yaris which was the nearest I could get to replicating that I think. I am getting a Seat Leon with a DSG box which I was impressed with when I drove it. The fact that we can now afford a PCP plan and our first ever new cars also negates the maintenance cost aspects and of course the fuel consumptions are comparable.

SO yes I am old, have done the boy racer manual bit and now want to sit back and enjoy the easy life!

Dave

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Modern autos are nothing like the ones from the 70's or early 80's. The same comparison to them is like comparing diesel cars from now to the same period. Fuel economy isn't as bad as you'd imagine, though depends on driving style. Mrs C only gets about 35 mpg around town out of her IQ auto, but she has lead for feet.

And I did a good number of years as a taxi driver with a manual!?!? An auto in town is no contest, and if you do a lot of driving it actually takes some of the strain and reduces your tiredness - it's one less thing to worry about.

[PeteB]

...Then my wife got an auto Micra (K12 2004-2010). I thought it was CVT but now I'm not sure. It was an absolute dream to drive and I always used it round town. It was 100% reliable for 7 years...

The K12 had a conventional 4 speed auto box with a lock-up torque converter, although lockup only happened above 45 mph (i.e. not much use in town).

My partner had the previous model which did have a CVT (unusually with a computer-controlled dry clutch instead of a torque converter), and for me it was the nicest driving experience ever (apart from a Hybrid). Also utterly reliable for 7 years. She replaced it with a K12 auto, and this was one of the most troublesome cars we'd ever had. After the CVT we thought the gearbox was horrible - jerky and uneconomic, but each to their own.

The CVT managed better than 40 mpg despite mainly short journeys/cold starts, while the 4-speed auto managed only 25 mpg under the same conditions.

The 4-speed also had an odd shifter - it's pattern was P-R-N-D-2-1, with a button halfway down the shifter for manually selecting 3rd. It was easy to pull back the stick one notch and unintentionally go from 4th straight to 2nd at speed. After a while, the button stopped working anyway.

[dcweather]

Modern autos are nothing like the ones from the 70's or early 80's. The same comparison to them is like comparing diesel cars from now to the same period. Fuel economy isn't as bad as you'd imagine, though depends on driving style. Mrs C only gets about 35 mpg around town out of her IQ auto, but she has lead for feet.

And I did a good number of years as a taxi driver with a manual!?!? An auto in town is no contest, and if you do a lot of driving it actually takes some of the strain and reduces your tiredness - it's one less thing to worry about.

Yes, that is the conclusion we have come to hence buying the two autos.

[dcweather]

...Then my wife got an auto Micra (K12 2004-2010). I thought it was CVT but now I'm not sure. It was an absolute dream to drive and I always used it round town. It was 100% reliable for 7 years...

The K12 had a conventional 4 speed auto box with a lock-up torque converter, although lockup only happened above 45 mph (i.e. not much use in town).

My partner had the previous model which did have a CVT (unusually with a computer-controlled dry clutch instead of a torque converter), and for me it was the nicest driving experience ever (apart from a Hybrid). Also utterly reliable for 7 years. She replaced it with a K12 auto, and this was one of the most troublesome cars we'd ever had. After the CVT we thought the gearbox was horrible - jerky and uneconomic, but each to their own.

The CVT managed better than 40 mpg despite mainly short journeys/cold starts, while the 4-speed auto managed only 25 mpg under the same conditions.

The 4-speed also had an odd shifter - it's pattern was P-R-N-D-2-1, with a button halfway down the shifter for manually selecting 3rd. It was easy to pull back the stick one notch and unintentionally go from 4th straight to 2nd at speed. After a while, the button stopped working anyway.

Its interesting to hear that. I suppose at it was our first auto we had nothing to compare to. I didn't even know that was an unusual sequence - it seems logical to me! At first it did seem to rev a bit high before it changed up but just a slight lift off the accelerator and it changed gear. There was a slight jolt ( I put j**k) but it got censored!) changing from around 1st to 2nd. Shows how much luck there is as well with individual cars. Ours passed every MOT first time and never had a mechanical repair other than re-gassing the aircon. It was the absolute top 1.4 SVE with gizmos that even a lot of cars don't have today. It did get excellent reviews unlike the latest version. Generally 38-42 mpg mostly around town. Anyway, gone now and the Yaris seems great although my wife seems a bit nervous in it - probably because it is a bit heavier and feels a bit bigger than the Micra.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

My partner had the previous model which did have a CVT (unusually with a computer-controlled dry clutch instead of a torque converter), and for me it was the nicest driving experience ever (apart from a Hybrid).

Its the same CVT gearbox used in the 1992-1995 Fiat Panda Selecta (We've 2 :D) and is an amazing bit of kit. Electromagnetic clutch, and capable of silly MPG if driven well, our record was 61MPG from Liverpool to Norwich - and this was with a 1108cc 8v FIRE engine.

[dcweather]

My partner had the previous model which did have a CVT (unusually with a computer-controlled dry clutch instead of a torque converter), and for me it was the nicest driving experience ever (apart from a Hybrid).

Its the same CVT gearbox used in the 1992-1995 Fiat Panda Selecta (We've 2 :D) and is an amazing bit of kit. Electromagnetic clutch, and capable of silly MPG if driven well, our record was 61MPG from Liverpool to Norwich - and this was with a 1108cc 8v FIRE engine.

Makes you wonder why they change these things. One of the problems is the EC MPG testing system. You can't compare it with the old one where you could get the figures quoted. I used to look at the urban and the extra urban and average them and that was pretty much what I would get. Few people seem to be getting better than about 70% of that these days. I've no doubt emissions are down but I'm not sure that the small petrol engines are as much more economical than we are led to believe.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

My partner had the previous model which did have a CVT (unusually with a computer-controlled dry clutch instead of a torque converter), and for me it was the nicest driving experience ever (apart from a Hybrid).

Its the same CVT gearbox used in the 1992-1995 Fiat Panda Selecta (We've 2 :D) and is an amazing bit of kit. Electromagnetic clutch, and capable of silly MPG if driven well, our record was 61MPG from Liverpool to Norwich - and this was with a 1108cc 8v FIRE engine.

Makes you wonder why they change these things. One of the problems is the EC MPG testing system. You can't compare it with the old one where you could get the figures quoted. I used to look at the urban and the extra urban and average them and that was pretty much what I would get. Few people seem to be getting better than about 70% of that these days. I've no doubt emissions are down but I'm not sure that the small petrol engines are as much more economical than we are led to believe.

Agreed, I could always smash the claimed MPG for a classic Panda, can't in anything modern :(

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I think there is now way too much tampering to get cars to achieve low CO2 g/km figures and high mpg's. As others have said, a few years ago you pretty much knew what mpg's a car would get, but now some cars are better than others and many are 'tuned' to excel at the EU test, but not in real life.

A good example of that is the Yaris HSD. It's meant to beat the Prius in the economy stakes, yet it appears that most owners can get nowhere near the claimed mpg's, even when trying. But with the Prius it is possible if you're careful, yet officially it's worse than the Yaris. The Yaris has a tiny 900w/hr HV Battery compared to the 1.5 kwh Prius Battery. I'd bet the 900w/hr is just enough for the car to complete the EU test and nothing else.

Trouble with the EU rating is that manufacturers are bringing out these small displacement engines in big cars to give amazing official mpg figures, though in real life you are going to end up hammering these small engined, turbo cars to keep up with traffic and potentially use more fuel than a more suitably sized engine.

[dcweather]

As so many of people's trips are a lot of less than 10 miles I can't for the life of me see why they didn't make a plug-in version of the small cars first, as surely these are the ones that tend to make the most small journeys and need the least power to do 5-10 miles EV only?

[MEP's Yaris GS]

As so many of people's trips are a lot of less than 10 miles I can't for the life of me see why they didn't make a plug-in version of the small cars first, as surely these are the ones that tend to make the most small journeys and need the least power to do 5-10 miles EV only?

Space I'd have thought tbh.

[Uncle Buck]

It's a wonder that the big rental firms aren't using more hybrids & EV's - ideal for short trips, city visits & airport transfers. They can always have petrol or diesel options for longer hauls ..... especially to areas with no charging facilities.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Why? They are often US owned and have massive deals with GM or Ford - think Enterprise.

Also, they buy in massive bulk in the UK at heavy discounts. I can't see Toyota wanting to sell their hybrids that way - they've admitted on here (or their dealers have) that they'd rather sell low numbers and make good profit than sell more for less.

[PeteB]

.... I can't see Toyota wanting to sell their hybrids that way - they've admitted on here (or their dealers have) that they'd rather sell low numbers and make good profit than sell more for less.

that said, I see they're offering 0% finance on the Yaris Hybrid...

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota are offering 0% finance on specific trim levels - eg Yaris Icon, Yaris Hybrid Icon, Auris Icon Plus, Auris Hybrid Icon Plus, and Verso Icon.

[CPN]

We got 0% finance on our Yaris Hybrid Excel which we bought in October 2014? (MY2015)

It would seem that 0% finance is available on ALL hybrid models at our local dealer in Doncaster...

[FROSTYBALLS]

As far as I'm aware, Toyota offers change every three months - something like Oct to Dec, Jan to Mar, etc.

Current advertised offers are those I identified above, and 4.9% finance on other models. For example the Prius, Prius Plug In and Prius + are being offered at 4.9% finance with £1000 deposit contribution.

[CPN]

Wow! Glad we got ours when we did then!

[cuius]

Local offers are 20% plus loan of a 10-y-o car so you can take advantage of the continuing scrappage scheme discount!

[ToyotaAuris]

Hey guys, thank you ever so much for all your replies, very helpful. I have chosen to buy the Lexus CT200h as it costs just a few hundred pounds more than the Auris and holds it value better as a older car. Ive heard that it uses the exact same engine as the Pruis (correct me if I am wrong) and that is very reliable. As soon as I sell my Auris (hopefully before Feb) I'll go ahead and purchase my Lexus.Thanks guys!!!