2nd key

[androbinuk]

1 hour ago, Mojo1010 said:

If I was u, I would take it further. It's unreasonable to not give 2 remote keys with a 2 year old approved car. It's also unreasonable for them not to tell u that. 

Make a formal complaint via email, if no joy tell them u are contacting trading standards. 

Thank you for the advice. Do you know where I can contact trading standards?

 

Unfortunately, my situation was a bit tricky as I my previous car let me down just before starting a new important job where I need to commute every day, so I had to get a new one quite quickly. As I went to a respected local dealership (Snow) I simply asked if the car was coming with 2 keys and they said yes. I never thought the second one would be just a normal standard key.

Do you think there is a a possibility to open a section 75 claim with my credit card? I bought the car only on the 6th of July so I am still in my first 30 days.

 

[androbinuk]

Another shocking think is that when I asked the Toyota technician there what would happen if I'd lose the only fob key, he literally said that I would need to reprogram the ECU and it would cost £1000! They are well aware of the problem but don't care at all.

[paul9]

Trading Standards should be contactable through your local council office, town hall or civic centre.

 

[Cyker]

If you're within 30 days you can threaten to return the car for a full refund unless they give you the 2nd key if they really won't play ball.

The whole reason for giving only 1 key was due to parts shortages, and they are supposed to give the 2nd key free to the customer with Toyota footing the bill so I don't understand the reluctance.

Still, at least your 2nd key can start the car - The poor chaps in the RAV4 forum apparently get given a 2nd key that can't even do that!!  

Just ridiculous!

 

6 hours ago, androbinuk said:

What do you mean by dumb key from Timpsons? They said I would be able to use the remote as the main key, it simply will not be branded toyota.

I don't know about now, but in the past, Timpsons and 90% of locksmiths could only supply non-remote keys that could only start the car but not work the remote central locking system - i.e. it was just a key with no buttons on it, with a copy of the transponder code of your key.

Dealers effectively had a monopoly on fully-functional keys.

Are they saying they can actually give you a non-cloned key that can also remotely unlock/lock the doors, just like the dealer could??

That would be very surprising to me if so!

[androbinuk]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

If you're within 30 days you can threaten to return the car for a full refund unless they give you the 2nd key if they really won't play ball.

The whole reason for giving only 1 key was due to parts shortages, and they are supposed to give the 2nd key free to the customer with Toyota footing the bill so I don't understand the reluctance.

Still, at least your 2nd key can start the car - The poor chaps in the RAV4 forum apparently get given a 2nd key that can't even do that!!  

Just ridiculous!

 

I don't know about now, but in the past, Timpsons and 90% of locksmiths could only supply non-remote keys that could only start the car but not work the remote central locking system - i.e. it was just a key with no buttons on it, with a copy of the transponder code of your key.

Dealers effectively had a monopoly on fully-functional keys.

Are they saying they can actually give you a non-cloned key that can also remotely unlock/lock the doors, just like the dealer could??

That would be very surprising to me if so!

About Timpsons, yes they claim they can clone the whole key otherwise it wouldn't make sense to me as I have a second manual key (without remote control), however, it is only £50 cheaper than Toyota.

 

About the key, I will do what you suggested and threaten to return the car since it is unacceptable that they give only one fob knowing that if lost it would cost the customer £1000 if it would go lost. This is not what I would expect from a Toyota-approved reseller.

 

[Derek.w]

I am sure they wont want to loose a sale because of a second key issu regardless of who right

OH FORGOT CUSTOMERS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT because you want them to come back for the next car or they daughter car or moybe the friend who likes your car!!.

[Derek.w]

If garage wont play ball goto your credit supplier as they have more clout when rejecting a car for any reason. Let them apply some pressure!.

[RonYarisX]

My tuppence worth is you're wasting your time with trading standards etc.

You asked does the car come with two keys and the reply was yes. That reply was correct.

When the car was collected, the dealer handed over the two keys and the buyer accepted them. What's the seller done wrong? if there was an issue then that was the time to mention it.

Under what basis would you be making a section 75 claim on your credit card? The dealer supplied and you accepted two keys which was the agreement. Nobody broke the agreement.

The 30day return rule under consumer protection only applies to goods which are faulty. But there's no fault, two keys were promised, two keys were provided, two keys were accepted and the two keys work. You can't return a product because you don't like it. All the salespeople have to say is take us to court if you're not happy.

PS - if you were to exercise your right to return the car under 30day rule, you'd have to hand the car back now and do without it until the case was addressed. The fact you can use your car without any problem is sufficient enough evidence that the car was not faulty enough at point of delivery.

Your only option would be to take them to court if you feel you've been misled. My advice is not to do that as you weren't misled.

 

[androbinuk]

13 hours ago, Derek.w said:

I am sure they wont want to loose a sale because of a second key issu regardless of who right

OH FORGOT CUSTOMERS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT because you want them to come back for the next car or they daughter car or moybe the friend who likes your car!!.

I raised a formal complaint with the Head Office of the dealership and Toyota UK. Initially he offered me a key half price (£100) and he was gonna pay the difference (he made it sound like he was actually paying). I mentioned I raised the complaint also with Toyota UK and he phoned me back saying he would offer the second fob free of charge if I withdraw the complain ( I got it in writing).

 

Looks like I am going to have a second fob free of charge! Thank you all of you to push me to fight till the end for a standard service. 

 

Salespeople are brilliant at making you look like you are wrong when you aren't

3 hours ago, RonYarisX said:

My tuppence worth is you're wasting your time with trading standards etc.

You asked does the car come with two keys and the reply was yes. That reply was correct.

When the car was collected, the dealer handed over the two keys and the buyer accepted them. What's the seller done wrong? if there was an issue then that was the time to mention it.

Under what basis would you be making a section 75 claim on your credit card? The dealer supplied and you accepted two keys which was the agreement. Nobody broke the agreement.

The 30day return rule under consumer protection only applies to goods which are faulty. But there's no fault, two keys were promised, two keys were provided, two keys were accepted and the two keys work. You can't return a product because you don't like it. All the salespeople have to say is take us to court if you're not happy.

PS - if you were to exercise your right to return the car under 30day rule, you'd have to hand the car back now and do without it until the case was addressed. The fact you can use your car without any problem is sufficient enough evidence that the car was not faulty enough at point of delivery.

Your only option would be to take them to court if you feel you've been misled. My advice is not to do that as you weren't misled.

 

You are absolutely right but for what the second fob costs them, it wouldn't make any sense to keep a customer unhappy.

[Mojo1010]

Great result.

The info to take for everyone else who is reading this, what is the point of an approved used 2 year old when it only comes with 1 useable key? Lose that and it will cost 1k. Always push them for a standard service, shouldn't need to in the first place. 

[Cyker]

I don't get why they were so reluctant - It's very common for people to negotiate a 2nd key as part of the sale, esp. for 2nd hand cars. It's not like it even costs that much as most of the cost is the labour IIRC.

I was very glad I asked to see 'both keys' when my dad bought his Verso - They tried to pull the same stunt with him, but when I saw it was the same thing - One dumb key and one full key - I made them supply a 2nd full key as a condition of the sale.

It's just such a hassle as there are so many things you need remember to check as you can't take anything for granted. Keys, Paperwork, service history evidence, rust, any parts that are known weaknesses, firmware and software versions, updates, recalls, whether a part with known issues has been replaced with a fixed one, checking under mats, boot floors, behind vents etc. for crap, stains and damage etc.

I vaguely recall someone on here saying they have a check list for buying cars that they constantly add to every time they get caught out by something  

 

[Mojo1010]

I think they don't want to spend whatever it cost for the key, £50 maybe? Or even go rogue and make a claim from Toyota GB for a second key and keep the cash?? The owner may one day in the near future order a key @£200. Or lose the key and they get more money for the work if the car go back to them? 

[anchorman]

Crikey.  Such drama over a key that will never get used 🙄

[Mojo1010]

My 2 keys get used, by alternating every 6 months or so. If a key gets lost, the other can be use to clone a new one. 

When on holiday in the uk, take both keys along in case one gets lost. 

[anchorman]

7 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

My 2 keys get used, by alternating every 6 months or so. If a key gets lost, the other can be use to clone a new one. 

When on holiday in the uk, take both keys along in case one gets lost. 

How many times have you lost a key?  I can’t find mine frequently but that’s down to my age and clumsiness.   Never lost one yet and can clone a key with a cheap second key which also has the key code tab with it.  Are you sure you shouldn’t get a third key made in case you lose the first two 🤔😉

[Mojo1010]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

How many times have you lost a key?  I can’t find mine frequently but that’s down to my age and clumsiness.   Never lost one yet and can clone a key with a cheap second key which also has the key code tab with it.  Are you sure you shouldn’t get a third key made in case you lose the first two 🤔😉

Not sure the reason you are having a dig at people for wanting a 2nd key. 

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, Mojo1010 said:

Not sure the reason you are having a dig at people for wanting a 2nd key. 

There’s talk of legal action and and rejecting cars etc.  I had a Mk4 with a plain second key and that got thrown in a drawer only to come out when I traded it for the Cross.  The Cross has two remotes.  Just like every other car I’ve had, the second key has been in a drawer with the foil on it since the day it got home.  I accept there might be some very unusual circumstances where two users of the car have a key where the second picks it up from a location where the first left it but mostly, it’s just one user.  All I’m saying is, if some cars come with a plain key for the second, it rarely causes a problem.  If it does you could approach the dealer (that in most cases the owner accepted the second key instead of dealing with it at the time) and they might give you one at their expense but you’re not entitled to one.   You’re not entitled to a spare wheel either.   

[Rhymes with Paris]

I had a gf who used to lose every key,car , house, garage etc on a daily basis.

Sometimes it took her 30 mins to answer the door, I could hear her frantically throwing things about and swearing while looking on the other side of the door.

Going out in her car became so traumatic, that I was happy to use mine instead of taking turns.

I think the reason for this though, was putting keys away in a different spot every time.

For those of us who are sane however, I find putting all keys, spares the lot into an old Christmas pudding bowl in my kitchen cupboard every time makes finding them fairly easy.

For me though, bearing in mind all the posts that I have seen on here about the aggravation that losing the one car key causes, it would be a deal breaker for me.

 

 

[Max_Headroom]

You need to get one of those little boxes that were popular a few years ago, you put one on the key ring and  it makes a sound when you clap.

[Cyker]

4 hours ago, anchorman said:

There’s talk of legal action and and rejecting cars etc.  I had a Mk4 with a plain second key and that got thrown in a drawer only to come out when I traded it for the Cross.  The Cross has two remotes.  Just like every other car I’ve had, the second key has been in a drawer with the foil on it since the day it got home.  I accept there might be some very unusual circumstances where two users of the car have a key where the second picks it up from a location where the first left it but mostly, it’s just one user.  All I’m saying is, if some cars come with a plain key for the second, it rarely causes a problem.  If it does you could approach the dealer (that in most cases the owner accepted the second key instead of dealing with it at the time) and they might give you one at their expense but you’re not entitled to one.   You’re not entitled to a spare wheel either.   

Yeah the response have been getting a bit extreme, but that's just because the dealer's being unreasonable. The thing is, New Yaris owners *are* entitled to a 2nd key - The given reason for the 2 different keys was parts shortages, with the idea that the 2nd 'full' key would be given later when they were more available. Technically this doesn't extend to used-car buyers, but they really should be supplied if they weren't claimed by the previous owner, rather than abusing the ignorance of the used-car buyer, because how could they possibly know?

Now, it's not as bad for the Yaris, since the 2nd key can still start the car and thus be used to program a new key in a pinch - The really bad one was in that RAV4 thread where they're saying '2nd' key doesn't even have a chip in it, so if they lose the one 'real' key given to them, they'd be in for a new ECU, ignition and locks, and £1-2k if they don't have lost key insurance! All for the sake of this 'useless' 2nd key.

At the end of the day it's like insurance - There are a *lot* of people who have a similar view of insurance to yours about the 2nd key, and think car insurance shouldn't be mandatory - They've never had an accident in their lives, why should they have to pay vast sums of money for something they never use?

It's one of those things you won't realize its worth until that one time you need it...!

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Max_Headroom said:

You need to get one of those little boxes that were popular a few years ago, you put one on the key ring and  it makes a sound when you clap.

Is that a thing?? I've seen keyring fobs where they beep back if someone wolf-whistles when I was a kid, but not ones that responds to a clap.

The wolf whistle would be a bit risky in this day and age tho'!  

*SLAP* HOW DARE YOU!

B...but I was just trying to find my keys!  

 

[anchorman]

Don’t get me wrong, I get that there needs to be a second key but I can’t get excited about it not being a remote key.  Each to his own but I wouldn’t spend a lot in litigation because I think you’d lose.  It would need to be a gesture from the dealer to get anywhere.  

[anchorman]

3 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Is that a thing?? I've seen keyring fobs where they beep back if someone wolf-whistles when I was a kid, but not ones that responds to a clap.

The wolf whistle would be a bit risky in this day and age tho'!  

*SLAP* HOW DARE YOU!

B...but I was just trying to find my keys!  

 

You might get more than you bargain for too!!!

[Rhymes with Paris]

1 hour ago, Max_Headroom said:

You need to get one of those little boxes that were popular a few years ago, you put one on the key ring and  it makes a sound when you clap.

I remember those, although round here you often hear the illiterate, gutteral,grunting sound of people shouting "shards rig mi fo"

Which roughly translated means "Chardonnay my sweet, could you please ring my mobile phone that is within a few feet of my grasp,as I am unfortunately far too stupid to locate it"

I have seen the ones who find themselves locked out of the car, take a crowbar to the tailgate.

If they had one of those box things, they would probably miss when they tried to clap

 

[wivenhoe]

If it was definitely confirmed the car would come with 2 keys (I have never seen that in a brochure or price list of any car) then if you lose the one given then the dealer should pay all costs of a replacement - to satisfy the original obligation.
I’m sure somebody will prove me wrong, but when an order is placed where in writing does it say 2 fully functioning ‘keyless entry keys’ will be provided ?  The only 2 things in the brochure is coat hooks !