Clutch loosing pressure.

[Comfy]

Well, yesterday i thought i was through this (went out for a test drive) and all was ok....other half used it for work today and its still not right. Might be a bit of a story but if i go from the start someone might be able to advise a bit better....at this point im all out of options..!

1. Over xmas the car was hardly used....i got in it and the clutch bit point felt like it was going to the floor....it got worse over time so started doing the research....

2. Tried to bleed the system with a piece of hose routed up to the reservoir. Open the bleed nipple (get the other half to push down on the clutch), close the nipple and release (stopping any air getting back into the system) rinse and repeat. After about 45 or so mins there was constantly air coming out of the system. Called the local garage who said it might be the master cylinder....i found a replacement part (the centre plunger) replaced with no difference. Called the garage to book it in thinking it might need to be pressure bled...they had it, said they couldnt get the air out (they clamped the hose under the engine) and said the clutch pedal was solid so it wasnt that. They said at this point the only other thing it could be was the concentric slave.

3. Sucked it up, followed a vid on you tube (thanks Kevin Albert-Williams) you top man you...and after a 12 hour day - swapped the clutch and concentric master out.

4. Issue was still there so ordered a complete master cylinder as at this point there was (i think - nothing else to change)

5. Bled the system again, clutch went ok and i went out yesterday for a test drive with no issues (a couple of miles round trip) - back to the top, other half goes out in it this morning - she tells me she couldnt change gear, had to pump the clutch and just made it home.

6. Went out again this evening thinking (there might be some more air in there) and im back where i started.....no clutch and a ton of air coming out of the system after 30 mins of bleeding the system...or, trying to.

Love some advice if anyone has got any but at this point im almost ready to accept defeat and put it into the local toyota dealership.!

Thanks to anyone that takes a swipe at it..!

[flash22]

What make was the master ? Are you loosing fluid, also be aware the reservoir has a divider it only fills the clutch side when the brake side is full, check the hard line and the flexi hose

as the hard line is long, take the line off the flexi and bleed the line

[Comfy]

Hi the master was a brand new oem replacement from Toyota. No , not loosing fluid that i know of.

Can you explain a bit more "as the hard line is long, take the line off the flexi and bleed the line"

Thanks for the reply....getting desparate now! Just been out trying to bleed it again as per the manual...5 pumps then open the bleed nipple...absolutely tons of air coming out..!

as for the hard line....i can see some of it but not all of it....as i say im not aware of any leaking though...

Can you explain the clutch side thing?....i mean it is full up...almost brimming...

the only thing i can think of is our driveway is on a downward slope...not steep but steep enough...steep enough that i cant push it up on to level ground... i wondered if the slope downhil was steep enough for air to get in somewhere... or may be jack it up on the front?

[DerekHa]

Hi Andy,

Been reading through your topic and wonder if the slope on your drive is steep enough to cause the clutch side of the fluid reservoir to draw air instead of brake fluid?

From what others have said the main hydraulic reserviour feeds both the braking system and the clutch and there is a division within.

f the car is facing down hill then the back of the reservoir will higher than the front and in turn the fluid level at the rear will be below the front.

If the feed for the clutch fluid is at the back of the reserviour and not covered by the fluid it would draw air constantly, which seems to fit your description of constantly bleeding air without getting just clean fluid out of the bleed nipple and a good clutch pedal operation once done.

Your best doing this on level ground! Water (or any fluid) will always be subject to gravity and will lie level regardless of what angle the car is at. You'll also need to make sure to keep the fluid level near the top to avoid drawing more air as you bleed the air out.

[Comfy]

Thank you very much for that explanation....im out tomorrow night (im banned from going anywhere near the car) so i will try again on wednesday night assuming i can get it up the driveway onto level ground...i should be able to get it near level....just to play devils advocate...on the slope i can see the feed for the clutch from the reservoir and it does have fluid covering it (ie the feed is under water/fluid) if you see what i mean....but, i will try all the same....many thanks again...i will be back wednesday evening with a report!

Its nice to know ive got a little bit of backup/support! 

Thanks again for the reply.

[flash22]

Sorry for the late reply

it's sucking in air from somewhere pipe from the res to the master, Hard line from the master down to the gearbox, flex hose into the pipe on the gearbox to the bleeder

what's the part numbers of the clutch and slave you used

1.0 or 1.3, 5 or 6 speed

[Comfy]

Hi - Dont worry about it. First and foremost i managed to get it on flat ground, bled the system - which was tons better....on the good side im pretty sure theres no air in the system....so good news the clutch is working, not so good news while it is working its loosing pressure randomly but, pumping it a few times i get the clutch back...i wasnt sure if it needed to kind of "settle" may try and go out for a drive dare i say it...late at night when theres no traffic around...

I will say that once id bled it on flat ground i jacked the front of the car up and proceeded to bled it again to see if i could get any more out of it...but im pretty sure its ok.

Bought the cutch and slave from eBay but bought a rymec one which apprently is the oem that toyota use. Its a 1 litre 5 speed.

I mean...are these clutches "a pain in the ****" to bleed? ive bled loads of systems on bikes...and some are a pain, some for example i have to take the rear caliper off and tie wrap it up high (to get the air out)...is it something that has to be put on a machine to push it "in" through from the nipple side as apose to pushing it "out" through the nipple?

Oh this was the clutch i bought. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325107930963

Sorry - i keep adding to this while i think of stuff....so what ive replaced...is that everything...?

The master, the concentric slave, and the clutch....are there any other parts that could give this problem?

[Comfy]

Been out for a test drive....didnt stray too far from home.  Everything kind of ok...the clutch is fine...but, if you keep your foot on it, it does loose pressure but, a couple of presses (id even say one) and the pressure is back...late and dark now...gonna get it on the flat again tomorrow night and give it another go at seeing if i can get any air out of it....look forward to anyone's opinions or suggestions....almost there...definately bleeding it on the flat and helped loads...

[flash22]

I think it's the wrong clutch, there is not a lot of cross-reference info apart - rymec is not oem

If rymec crossed it with a yaris the pressure plate and clutch are wrong, if the pressure plate is not deep enough the slave can over extending and suck in air

did you compare the parts before fitting ?

[Comfy]

Yes. Gave the supplier the reg and vin. They confirmed it was correct. After yesterday's test drive I did another bleed session for 10 mins tonight and got some more micro fine bubbles out... Went out for another test drive... Better again and almost perfect so going to check again tomorrow night to see if there's anymore air in there.... I reckon I'm good... But I'll report back again tomorrow... Thanks for the reply. 

[Bernard Foy]

1 minute ago, Comfy said:

Yes. Gave the supplier the reg and vin. They confirmed it was correct. After yesterday's test drive I did another bleed session for 10 mins tonight and got some more micro fine bubbles out... Went out for another test drive... Better again and almost perfect so going to check again tomorrow night to see if there's anymore air in there.... I reckon I'm good... But I'll report back again tomorrow... Thanks for the reply. 

You’re like the old Matt Monroe song Andy you’re “Almost There”. It’s a good feeling when you get to resolve a difficult perplexing problem 👏👏

[Comfy]

Yeah - this has been going on since Xmas.....if im honest i think the local garage (who have always been good) i dont think a, diagnosed it and b, didnt do the job right in the first place....i think...looking at everything that has gone on...they didnt correctly flush the hydraulic fluid....preceeding all of this a month before (back in november) i put it in for that job (to have the hydraulic fluid replaced) as on the MOT/service the recommended it...a month after all of this started.....plus the second time it went in (for them to put it on the machine again to have the fluid pushed through) they said..."nah it didnt work...theres air getting in the system somewhere" - and i had that as well...but i was constantly bleeding the system on a sloped driveway....so im not sure they even tried....but i might be wrong there....anyway...gonna see if there are any more air bubbles in their tonight as i went out for a quick drive last night...i think "normal" driving might cause any bubbles to be moved around...see what goes...anyway...thanks for the help from everyone one and the replies....rear shocks are next on the list!

If anyone has any clutch issues with their 1.0 IQ i think im pretty qualified to help!! (and id be happy to) wouldnt want anyone to go through what i did..! 🙂

[flash22]

Sounds good, let's hope it does not have to come apart

the IQ gearboxes are unique to the IQ, as are the clutches

the aftermarket is so hit and miss, lost count of the parts that are cross-referenced incorrectly

[Comfy]

Yep... Hope so... We've used it a few times now... I'd say 90% of the time it's OK and get the odd time you have to pump the clutch... But... Its the 2nd time I've checked and had to top it up.... So I guess air is still coming out of the system....? 

[Comfy]

Hi - just chiming in as its been a week or so since it was "finished" as it were. Im still getting the odd time when i need to pump the clutch literally once to get the bite point back again...and im noticing that id say 4 occasions since then ive had to top the level up...which means theres still air in there...and yes ive attached the hose and no air is coming out so im guessing now where its being used (kind of regularly) - wife still doesnt totally trust it yet..air, is still finding its way out.... just thought id put this up in case anyone else has to change their clutch out...or mess with the hydraulics for any reason...

[Stivino]

If you are having to top it up, it means you are losing fluid.

[Comfy]

I am...and i was....first time ive had the chance to look in the light....found it....theres a hard brake-line/pipe going into the back of where the bleed nipple is....noticed a pool of brake fluid on the engine just underneath....put a spanner on it and tightened it between a quarter and half turn....test drive later on...

[flash22]

Yep, that will do it, I did say check the hard lines, it's easy done when manhandling gearboxes you only got to knock the line for it to become unseated especially if you don't use a flare spanner to tighten things

many moons ago I had a wheel cylinder that would suck in air, turns out there were 2 styles of line flare,

[Comfy]

Yep - that was definately it. In fact so much so that i might have to adjust the pedal as its now a tad too high. Went out just after i posted for about 15 mins and the clutch is now perfect.

Did the rear dampers on sunday, this weekend is polishing the fogging front lights...then after that im looking at an android head unit but thats and ongoing project im doing some research on...!

[wraith1]

Hi @Comfy apologies for jumping on an old thread but just wondering if you can remember where you got the service kit for your clutch master cylinder or have a part number? I'm having clutch issues (again!) on my 2009 IQ. replaced the master cylinder 11 months ago after having no pressure on clutch, bleeding would solve for a few days but then back to nothing. Not loosing any fluid and no leaks found the master cylinder solved the problem. But 11 months on its started again and I'm reluctant to spend another £170 on another master cylinder if i can replace the internals.

[Comfy]

Ooh...well, funny you should say that but my original one was ok...your welcome to it if you want...very cheap...it's done 40k....but, I'll go and find the eBay sale...it wasn't actually for the iq but it did fit...

[Comfy]

Here you go. The replacement plunger is metal instead of plastic.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153308462369

[wraith1]

Thanks for that @Comfy.  Ive still got my old master cylinder so I can rebuild that and swap over. Tearing my hair out with it!! Its definitely dragging air in somewhere. If I bleed with a power bleeder i get a couple of days out of it. Bleeding it the way Toyota suggest (Pump clutch, hold down and open bleed) every pump of the clutch just creates more air so thinking its either the master or slave. Guessing its unlikely to be the master again after only 11 months but its easier than taking the gearbox out so going to try it first!

[Comfy]

Where the bleed nipple is behind there where the steel hose goes in...you can't see it but there's a nut there that might need tightening...?

[Comfy]

Also....bleed it with the front of the car on a jack....I made the mistake of trying to bleed it on a frontward sloping drive....no matter what I did...air got in!