Engine oil level

[Merlin5]

Hi guys. I had a low oil pressure warning last night on my Toyota Auris and checking the dipstick today, yes, it showed barely no oil. So I put oil in while the engine was cold. Was hard to see the oil level as it isn't very dark. The manual says to check the level by bringing the car to operating temperature then switching off and waiting for a few minutes to let the oil go to the bottom of the sump. So I switched the engine on, let it idle for 5 minutes, turned it off and let it cool for 5 minutes and then checked the dipstick. The level is way past the maximum marking by almost double. The extra amount looks on the dipstick to be about the same length again as the minimum to maximum marks.  Is that ok though, can I still drive it?

[Yugguy1970]

Wow.

No.

A bit over the max is fine but you've overfilled it.

Every other car I've had in 35 years I have always checked the oil when properly cold, overnight.

[Merlin5]

Yeah, I messed up, lol. I've asked my mobile mechanic if he can come and drain the oil. He's pretty busy but he said he might be able to come over this evening.

 

[Merlin5]

All sorted. 👍 Local mechanics in my road drained the oil for free. He said keep an eye on the oil level once a week for the next month to make sure it was just low oil and not a problem with the oil pump. He thought it was likely just low oil as there was nothing on the dipstick when I first checked it.

He said the amount of extra oil I'd put in wasn't too bad, he reckoned he sucked out half to 1 litre to bring the level down to maximum.

[TonyHSD]

Hi, 

Toyota cars are difficult to read their dipstick and oil levels checks often misread. 
The best way to check your real oil level is in the morning on cold, pull out the dipstick and read without wiping it clean, if the oil level is at max or close by 5mm up or down you are good. You can wipe and re check again.  
If you run the engine and then check oil on warm as per the book there is always a splash and marks left on the dipstick from the tube. 

Here how to read correctly. 👍

[Merlin5]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi, 

Toyota cars are difficult to read their dipstick and oil levels checks often misread. 
The best way to check your real oil level is in the morning on cold, pull out the dipstick and read without wiping it clean, if the oil level is at max or close by 5mm up or down you are good. You can wipe and re check again.  
If you run the engine and then check oil on warm as per the book there is always a splash and marks left on the dipstick from the tube. 

Here how to read correctly. 👍

Thanks very much Tony. I'll do what you suggested tomorrow before starting the car so that the engine is cold. Yes,  I guess the tube splashes were making my oil level look more overfilled than it was. I'll keep in mind the +/- 5mm level.

Out of interest, the mechanic said I should regularly check my oil and that the level shouldn't go down from maximum after a month and that if it has gone down then there may be an issue, such as the oil pump. Is that strictly true or is it possible after a month the level could go down a bit, perhaps even by about 5mm and that would not necessarily indicate a problem?

[Stivino]

Neither time or the oil pump will have any effect on the oil level.

You could use the car for a month and only do 500 miles.  Or, you could do 5,000 miles in a month. So the time is irrelevant.

[Merlin5]

26 minutes ago, Stivino said:

Neither time or the oil pump will have any effect on the oil level.

You could use the car for a month and only do 500 miles.  Or, you could do 5,000 miles in a month. So the time is irrelevant.

Good points.

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Merlin5 said:

Thanks very much Tony. I'll do what you suggested tomorrow before starting the car so that the engine is cold. Yes,  I guess the tube splashes were making my oil level look more overfilled than it was. I'll keep in mind the +/- 5mm level.

Out of interest, the mechanic said I should regularly check my oil and that the level shouldn't go down from maximum after a month and that if it has gone down then there may be an issue, such as the oil pump. Is that strictly true or is it possible after a month the level could go down a bit, perhaps even by about 5mm and that would not necessarily indicate a problem?

It depends on a bunch of things, but yeah generally the oil level should be pretty static under normal use.

Lots of High RPM on a run can cause the level to drop fractionally but that's mostly normal.

There are lots of seals that oil can start to leak out of, esp. as cars age and the rubber seals get less squishy.

My current Yaris Mk4 uses no oil at all as far as I can tell, but you'd expect that as it's still relatively new.

My first Toyota, a Mk1 Yaris D4D, used very little oil generally, but had a tiny but noticeable drop whenever I went to my brother's house (Mainly because I would be hooning the bejeesus out of it up and down the A5  )

My Mk2 Yaris VVTi 1.33 was burning about 1 litre of oil a month no matter what I did - That clearly had problems (A known issue; Weak piston rings not clearing the oil off the cylinder bores, so it'd get burned off).

[Mooly]

17 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

The best way to check your real oil level is in the morning on cold, pull out the dipstick and read without wiping it clean, if the oil level is at max or close by 5mm up or down you are good.

See Tony is using the new fangled transparent stuff. Mine is easier to see 🤣

 

14 hours ago, Cyker said:

My Mk2 Yaris VVTi 1.33 was burning about 1 litre of oil a month no matter what I did - That clearly had problems (A known issue; Weak piston rings not clearing the oil off the cylinder bores, so it'd get burned off).

The 1.33L is an odd ball for sure. I put 11 litres in over a 12 month period a little while back as you probably recall. Had the cat suffer that blockage and my independent experimentally try washing it on a DPF cleaner... 'blocked and there was a bit of a noise and all this gunge shot out'...

Well that was over 3k ago. 

What I'm finding truly remarkable with mine (and it recently passed the 100k mark) is that hard driving i.e. lots of revs up to the red line, foot to floor, dropping 6th to 4th on the motorway for a good few miles so the revs are in the 5k range (I've done all this as a test) does not cause any noticeable drop in level. It is WEIRD. The level now is where it was a couple of weeks back and that was around 300 miles ago. I'm just keeping a watch on it at the moment. 

Do a 'Driving Miss Daisy' and not go over 30 and I could get that kind of drop (from max to where it is now) in 50 or 60 miles. The secret is not to use engine braking.

(That nice looking oil I have is 10/40 grade and is cold and was changed back at end of Feb but up until this last three months had probably had 5 or 6 litres added to it. Following my discovery on engine braking the consumption is slashed. It runs so so well on 10/40, quiet and very smooth) 

 

 

[TonyHSD]

That’s right, oil level should  not be affected by time but by mileage only. 
Any engine especially those that are high mileage or in older cars consume a bit of oil, some does more and it is normal oil level to go down. 
Depending on use and mileage under bonnet checks should be done on regular basis, I personally do once or twice a week as this will be 600-1000 miles an average. Oil level check and top up, all other fluids check and windscreen washer top up. Tyre pressure check and top up once every two weeks, sometimes even more often. 
Some cars in certain conditions can actually increase oil level , this is also a warning sign and means fuel contaminated oil which is bad for the engine too. 

[Cyker]

One thing to note - According to the manual the oil should be at the Max line when the engine is still warm, so if you top it up while the engine is stone cold it will likely be slightly over max in reality (Not enough to cause problems tho').

2 hours ago, Mooly said:

See Tony is using the new fangled transparent stuff. Mine is easier to see 🤣

 

The 1.33L is an odd ball for sure. I put 11 litres in over a 12 month period a little while back as you probably recall. Had the cat suffer that blockage and my independent experimentally try washing it on a DPF cleaner... 'blocked and there was a bit of a noise and all this gunge shot out'...

Well that was over 3k ago. 

What I'm finding truly remarkable with mine (and it recently passed the 100k mark) is that hard driving i.e. lots of revs up to the red line, foot to floor, dropping 6th to 4th on the motorway for a good few miles so the revs are in the 5k range (I've done all this as a test) does not cause any noticeable drop in level. It is WEIRD. The level now is where it was a couple of weeks back and that was around 300 miles ago. I'm just keeping a watch on it at the moment. 

Do a 'Driving Miss Daisy' and not go over 30 and I could get that kind of drop (from max to where it is now) in 50 or 60 miles. The secret is not to use engine braking.

(That nice looking oil I have is 10/40 grade and is cold and was changed back at end of Feb but up until this last three months had probably had 5 or 6 litres added to it. Following my discovery on engine braking the consumption is slashed. It runs so so well on 10/40, quiet and very smooth) 

 

 

Good grief that looks like the oil out of my old diesels after 2 weeks!  

But yeah I noticed that about the 1.33 too - I tended to rag it a lot as I really didn't like it (Seriously, going from a small turbo diesel to a small petrol engine is one of the most painful transitions I've had!), and also noticed it burned less oil when being hooned; I can only assume all that extra heat tightened things up so the oil loss past the rings wasn't so bad. When it's stone cold it's probably quite loosey-goosey in the bores!

Funnily enough 10w40 was the spec'd oil for my Mk1 D4D. It's good to know that helped with the oil burn issue a bit!

[TonyHSD]

Ok, here with darker oil. The first cut is what we are looking for and this shows where the oil level is.
The rest above are just marks from the tube. 

 

[Mooly]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

Good grief that looks like the oil out of my old diesels after 2 weeks!

Its Castrol 'Ultra Clean' 10/40 grade. At least it is holding any contamination in suspension. Shining a torch in the filler hole and having a good look and it is all super shiny clean everywhere, it really does look like brand new with no deposits of anything visible anywhere.

 

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

When it's stone cold it's probably quite loosey-goosey in the bores!

I've started giving it a little squirt of acceleration as soon as possible from cold now. I don't like doing that but it seems to help I suspect. Nothing outrageous, say up to 4k in 1st and 2nd and then drive more normally after that initial burst.  

And some days it just seems to run so well, and today was one of those days.

2 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Ok, here with darker oil.

You'll get there with it Tony 😉just leave it a bit longer.

[Mooly]

Nice little vid on the Castrol Ultra Clean:

https://youtu.be/KUIPCOAE7DI

[Cyker]

My Mk4 uses 0w8 which is so hard to see I don't even bother checking the oil for months after a service, or at least until I've had a chance to hoon it about to get some colour into it!  

It's a big contrast to the old Mk1 D4D, which made the oil so black a week after the service that it was no trouble spotting where the level was  

It's funny, as owning a diesel was still a novelty back then (It was when they started tricking us all into getting diesels saying how environmentally friendly they are etc.... if only I knew then what I knew now!) and everyone was horrified how black the oil was and insisted there was something badly wrong with the engine  

[Roker]

A point to remember, if the oil is changed from the time it was changed rather than miles, it must be going off, so if you have cans of oil stored in your garage this must also go off and shouldn't be used

[Rhymes with Paris]

Aye, I too got used to oil becoming black with soot very soon after an oil change.

In those days I used to do it myself with a combination catch tank, and oil can, well plastic of course ,bought from Hellfrauds IIRC.

Designed to catch the waste oil from the sump, and take to the tip and disposed of.

Had a bung on the side where the oil dropped into the can.

Lots of newspaper used to wipe the side into a state where it could be transported without dripping all over the boot area in a  bag.

Never had a problem with missing sump plug washers, under or over filled ,or having to wonder if the correct oil and filter was used and fitted correctly.

Have to trust others now to do it properly, maybe they will.

[Cyker]

23 minutes ago, Roker said:

A point to remember, if the oil is changed from the time it was changed rather than miles, it must be going off, so if you have cans of oil stored in your garage this must also go off and shouldn't be used

It depends on how it's stored - If it's in an air tight container in a cool area not exposed to sunlight, it will last for ages, certainly a lot longer than the oil change interval.

The thing that degrades it is exposure to heat and air, mainly heat.

This is why lubricating oils in gearboxes and diffs etc. have much longer change intervals, as they are sealed and don't really get hot.

You can probably tell by smell if it's gone off.

[Stivino]

23 minutes ago, Roker said:

A point to remember, if the oil is changed from the time it was changed rather than miles, it must be going off, so if you have cans of oil stored in your garage this must also go off and shouldn't be used

Oil has a five year shelf life.  The date is was bottled is stamped on every container.

[Stivino]

1 minute ago, Cyker said:

This is why lubricating oils in gearboxes and diffs etc. have much longer change intervals, as they are sealed and don't really get hot.

Not so, it's because they are a completely different type of oil.

[Roker]

5 hours ago, Stivino said:

Oil has a five year shelf life.  The date is was bottled is stamped on every container.

[Merlin5]

18 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Ok, here with darker oil. The first cut is what we are looking for and this shows where the oil level is.
The rest above are just marks from the tube. 

 

That's interesting as that's how my dipstick looked when I thought I'd overfilled it and not knowing at the time about tube marks. Still, the mechanic said he sucked some out, he reckoned half to 1 litre, so I obviously did overfill it a bit but not by as much as I thought.

[TonyHSD]

54 minutes ago, Merlin5 said:

That's interesting as that's how my dipstick looked when I thought I'd overfilled it and not knowing at the time about tube marks. Still, the mechanic said he sucked some out, he reckoned half to 1 litre, so I obviously did overfill it a bit but not by as much as I thought.

This is the reason I do checks on cold without wipe clean the dipstick first and then re check on warm engine, it helps me avoid any misread and confusion. The difference between min and max on the dipstick readings is usually around a litre of oil on most cars. 
Oil in engine needs to be replaced every year no matter mileage, even if the car has only covered less than 1000 miles.
Transmission oil gets hot too, sometimes as hot as the motor oil if the car been used at high speeds, tow heavy loads or driven sport style, or drive with space saver spare wheel on the drive axle. Whining noise will also be presented at certain speeds. 

[AisinW]

I believe the minimum to maximum marking is approximately 1L.  My engine has not consumed any oil yet at close to 100k miles.  If we have pre-November 2014 engines, we should watch the oil consumption rate.  If we do deligent oil change with high-quality oil, then the consumption will be minimal.  However, it is normal if we have any, but make sure to top it up periodically. 

@Stivino Transmission fluid has different bases and additives and is not exposed to radical gas from the blow-by and high temperatures of engines.  Therefore, it can last really long; 6–10-year intervals are fine.  The 5-year self-life is a guide, just like milk sold in supermarkets with its "sold by" marking.  We can still use them for a couple more years as long as they are stored in good storage. So, we can safely use them at their 5th year.