2023 Corolla Hybrid GR sport coolant ingress into engine

[Kermit746]

I purchased a new 2023 2 litre model Corolla Hybrid GR sport in Sep2023. It's only just clocked up 1794 miles and when checking the oil recently I noticed a coffee cream deposit on the dipstick, inside the oil filler cap and inside the rocker cover.

On discovering this I was quite shocked as it indicates a possible coolant ingress into the engine.

I have another 70 plate corolla (company car) it's a 1.8 though and no issues with this (linked to covering the same weekly mileage (14 mile return trip to work).

I have been informed by my dealer that this is a know issue and Toyota don't have a fix for it ( issue occurring on low mileage vehicles, possible due to upper engine cooling).

This I don't get as the engine gets up to normal operating temperature, each way during my daily commute.

All that is advised to do is drop the oil and change the filter and take it for a long run, of which isn't really acceptable after spending over £30k on the vehicle.  

I find astonishing as there is no notification of this issue during the sales process and therefore the vehicle isn't fit for purpose.

I have requested that samples of the coffee cream and oil be taken, from the bottom of the sump, for lab analisis to rule out possible manufacturing defects (split in coolant path either in the block or head and coolant ingressing into the oil path).

This was also a sudden change as I regularly check my oil and any gasket or seal failure would show a gradual deposit build up and nothing to this extent.

Has anyone else had this issue with their 2L 2023 models, as it is known and if the oil and filter aren't replaced more frequently it will cause engine damage?  See attached pics          
 

[Obsidian Estate]

Has it lost coolant?

[Kermit746]

No none at all.

 

[Kermit746]

I believe that it is due to the rocker cover on the new 2L engine, it looks really cheap compared to the rocker cover on the 1.8L engine. Basically there it too much heat loss causing internal condensation to form during the cold weather (not issues in the summer months). Guess I will only find out once they take samples and get a lab analysis done to confirm. I still believe that the issue may be more drastic than this though (split head or block coolant path). Difficult these days though as the technical expertise isn't there in most main dealerships. I am going to push for a full refund or new 1.8l model in replacement as this isn't no.   

[fourbanks]

59 minutes ago, Kermit746 said:

I believe that it is due to the rocker cover on the new 2L engine, it looks really cheap compared to the rocker cover on the 1.8L engine. Basically there it too much heat loss causing internal condensation to form during the cold weather (not issues in the summer months). Guess I will only find out once they take samples and get a lab analysis done to confirm. I still believe that the issue may be more drastic than this though (split head or block coolant path). Difficult these days though as the technical expertise isn't there in most main dealerships. I am going to push for a full refund or new 1.8l model in replacement as this isn't no.   

i would go to Toyota Gatwick where they have a master tec guy called Tim. He is in the Lexus department but will still be able to step in for his views on this so that you can fully understand on what's going on to be able to get a refund on your vehicle 

that's a long shot, thou they may just replace the engine ? 

[Kermit746]

Thanks for the Info. I bought the vehicle from Steven Eagell in Watford and it's booked in with them next week, so will see how it goes there first. This is a known issue by Toyota with currently no recall fix in place yet, so I guess that I need to wait and see what the findings will be and then press for an outcome from there. I will keep the forum updated, as someone else my find it of help one day.

Thanks again 

[Mr Billiards]

I have an October 23 2ltr GR Sport, currently at 2800 miles. Purchased new from Steven Eagell Peterborough.

After reading your post I went out to check the oil level and inside the rocker cover filler cap. It's as clean as a whistle and the oil level sits at the maximum mark.

I generally do three forty mile round trips per week, but also lots of local ten minute runs. 

Will be interesting to hear what your dealership has to say.

 

 

[Kermit746]

That's interesting. Thanks for checking yours when you saw my post. I will keep it updated regarding any outcome from what the dealership does on the 23Jan2023, as they say that it is a known issue. Mine is stored outside on the drive, is that the same for you?

I normally do regular weekly oil and tyre pressure checks and all was good on the 16Dec2023, then I finished for Christmas and the car wasn't then used until 03Jan2024. I then noticed the issue on the 14Jan2024 and emailed the dealer. My daily Mon to Friday trip to work is only 7 miles each way, but the engine does reach the normal operating temp, so all quite stange. 

On another note has your Battery ever indicated fully charge, as mine only falls short by one bar?

 

[Kermit746]

2 hours ago, Mr Billiards said:

I have an October 23 2ltr GR Sport, currently at 2800 miles. Purchased new from Steven Eagell Peterborough.

After reading your post I went out to check the oil level and inside the rocker cover filler cap. It's as clean as a whistle and the oil level sits at the maximum mark.

I generally do three forty mile round trips per week, but also lots of local ten minute runs. 

Will be interesting to hear what your dealership has to say.

 

 

I have another could of things that may or not be the same on yours. The new Multimedia terms acknowledgement comes up every time on start up and you either have to acknowledge or not. I would have fault that this would be done just the once and that's it. I sthis the same on yours.

I also get a clunk noise every now and then when I press the brake pedal, the only thing that I believe it could be is the brake hold actuator. On my 70 plate Corolla this doesn't happen. 

[Roy231]

Have you checked the radiator for Oil,i would take the car to an independent garage and have them check the coolant for Co2 this will prove if the head gasket has a leak.

[TonyHSD]

If no coolant 

7 hours ago, Kermit746 said:

I purchased a new 2023 2 litre model Corolla Hybrid GR sport in Sep2023. It's only just clocked up 1794 miles and when checking the oil recently I noticed a coffee cream deposit on the dipstick, inside the oil filler cap and inside the rocker cover.

On discovering this I was quite shocked as it indicates a possible coolant ingress into the engine.

I have another 70 plate corolla (company car) it's a 1.8 though and no issues with this (linked to covering the same weekly mileage (14 mile return trip to work).

I have been informed by my dealer that this is a know issue and Toyota don't have a fix for it ( issue occurring on low mileage vehicles, possible due to upper engine cooling).

This I don't get as the engine gets up to normal operating temperature, each way during my daily commute.

All that is advised to do is drop the oil and change the filter and take it for a long run, of which isn't really acceptable after spending over £30k on the vehicle.  

I find astonishing as there is no notification of this issue during the sales process and therefore the vehicle isn't fit for purpose.

I have requested that samples of the coffee cream and oil be taken, from the bottom of the sump, for lab analisis to rule out possible manufacturing defects (split in coolant path either in the block or head and coolant ingressing into the oil path).

This was also a sudden change as I regularly check my oil and any gasket or seal failure would show a gradual deposit build up and nothing to this extent.

Has anyone else had this issue with their 2L 2023 models, as it is known and if the oil and filter aren't replaced more frequently it will cause engine damage?  See attached pics          
 

Imo on first look there is nothing unusual for a car that been used on short trips in cold weather conditions. If there is no oil or coolant loss, no mixed together and both liquids appeared clear there is no need to worry. 
If you take the car for a longer run , minimum 30-40 min and even longer this white stuff will clear and everything will be back to normal. 
If this not happens then can you book a dealer visit and the service technicians to do checks for coolant pressure leaks etc. 

Winter tips for driving hybrids, set interior temperature to minimum 20C° , preferably a bit more either in auto or manual mode, AC on also recommended. Avoid any eco functions on your hvac control panel. The car needs hot engine and warm and dry interior to maintain optimal Battery temperature. 
The petrol engine on your Toyota hybrid in current freezing temperatures will need to be almost constantly ON if all settings are correct. 
The OP car very likely is ok. 

[Obsidian Estate]

9 hours ago, Kermit746 said:

No none at all.

 

Surely can't be the head gasket then.

If you're really concerned take it back to the dealer.

[Mr Billiards]

4 hours ago, Kermit746 said:

That's interesting. Thanks for checking yours when you saw my post. I will keep it updated regarding any outcome from what the dealership does on the 23Jan2023, as they say that it is a known issue. Mine is stored outside on the drive, is that the same for you?

I normally do regular weekly oil and tyre pressure checks and all was good on the 16Dec2023, then I finished for Christmas and the car wasn't then used until 03Jan2024. I then noticed the issue on the 14Jan2024 and emailed the dealer. My daily Mon to Friday trip to work is only 7 miles each way, but the engine does reach the normal operating temp, so all quite stange. 

On another note has your battery ever indicated fully charge, as mine only falls short by one bar?

 

No, my Battery never shows full charge, its normally short by one bar.

[Mr Billiards]

3 hours ago, Kermit746 said:

I have another could of things that may or not be the same on yours. The new Multimedia terms acknowledgement comes up every time on start up and you either have to acknowledge or not. I would have fault that this would be done just the once and that's it. I sthis the same on yours.

I also get a clunk noise every now and then when I press the brake pedal, the only thing that I believe it could be is the brake hold actuator. On my 70 plate Corolla this doesn't happen. 

My multimedia system does exactly the same. I think you have to be signed in / connected to the My Toyota app to stop the screen acknowledgement message. But I just live with it as it is.

I don't get a clunk when pressing the brake pedal. Occasionally I get a clunk when I start reversing off my drive, especially after standing all night. My car is kept on my drive at all times.

[Obsidian Estate]

37 minutes ago, Mr Billiards said:

No, my battery never shows full charge, its normally short by one bar.

They're never full and never empty.

[Cyker]

This is just a classic symptom of low use, esp. in winter, and not something to be overly worried about.

What's happening is condensation is forming inside the engine and running down into the oil; Normally when an engine is run at operating temperature for long enough, this water gets boiled out of the oil and goes away, but low use where the engine only barely reaches operating temperature, and only for short periods, often causes this.

It's semi-common even in normal cars that are mostly used for super short journeys in winter - I'm sure there was at least one Aygo or Yaris owner on here who also had similar symptoms and feared headgasket, but it turned out they were literally just driving down the road to the shops and back. Hybrids are more susceptible because the engine runs so infrequently the oil cools down quickly so not all the water can boil out.

Don't worry about it - It'll fix itself when the weather gets hotter. You can 'fix' it sooner by driving it more, e.g. to visit the folks, visit some place of interest etc.

The hybrids are a bit like diesels in that they need to get good and hot at least every now and then to stay in tip-top condition, but the small amount of water causing this shouldn't cause any major issues, and as I said will fix itself when the weather gets warmer (Or if you go on a longer drive)

 

The Battery, if the car is being driven optimally, will stay almost exactly at 50% charge; That gives it enough charge to assist/move the car when asked to, but enough space to soak up wasted energy for later deployment when needed. It should never go above 7 bars or below 2 all things being ideal.

[Kermit746]

16 hours ago, Roy231 said:

Have you checked the radiator for Oil,i would take the car to an independent garage and have them check the coolant for Co2 this will prove if the head gasket has a leak.

I have had a look in the expansion tank although you can't really really see too much. The dealer will be conducting a Co2 sniff test I believe, so to rule out a possible gasket or seal failure. 

Thanks for your message. 

[Kermit746]

13 hours ago, Cyker said:

This is just a classic symptom of low use, esp. in winter, and not something to be overly worried about.

What's happening is condensation is forming inside the engine and running down into the oil; Normally when an engine is run at operating temperature for long enough, this water gets boiled out of the oil and goes away, but low use where the engine only barely reaches operating temperature, and only for short periods, often causes this.

It's semi-common even in normal cars that are mostly used for super short journeys in winter - I'm sure there was at least one Aygo or Yaris owner on here who also had similar symptoms and feared headgasket, but it turned out they were literally just driving down the road to the shops and back. Hybrids are more susceptible because the engine runs so infrequently the oil cools down quickly so not all the water can boil out.

Don't worry about it - It'll fix itself when the weather gets hotter. You can 'fix' it sooner by driving it more, e.g. to visit the folks, visit some place of interest etc.

The hybrids are a bit like diesels in that they need to get good and hot at least every now and then to stay in tip-top condition, but the small amount of water causing this shouldn't cause any major issues, and as I said will fix itself when the weather gets warmer (Or if you go on a longer drive)

 

The battery, if the car is being driven optimally, will stay almost exactly at 50% charge; That gives it enough charge to assist/move the car when asked to, but enough space to soak up wasted energy for later deployment when needed. It should never go above 7 bars or below 2 all things being ideal.

Hi thanks for your message, and I totally agree and hope that this is the case as during my trip to work (only 7 miles 4 of which are motorway) the engine just reaches normal operating temperature. I was just slightly shock when performing the last oil check to see what I did. I would have expected to see slight signs of the creamy deposit (building up gradually) and not to that extent which is in the attached pics. I did clean all the deposit away and then take the car for a 38 mile motorway run.

On returning for the run the creamy deposit was back but much less, so fingers crossed all will be okay.

Its strange though as on my company Corolla 1.8 (70 plate), I have been doing the same trips during the winter but never had an issue. I guess the 2.0 engine does less work and loses more heat, hence leading to condensation forming in the top of the engine.

Thanks again      

[ialexpw]

17 hours ago, Mr Billiards said:

My multimedia system does exactly the same. I think you have to be signed in / connected to the My Toyota app to stop the screen acknowledgement message. But I just live with it as it is.

I don't get a clunk when pressing the brake pedal. Occasionally I get a clunk when I start reversing off my drive, especially after standing all night. My car is kept on my drive at all times.

In regards to the multimedia, I don't believe there's a way to remove that intro screen. I'm signed in and have to hit Continue every day (73 GR Sport 2.0). It was the same on my previous Hyundai too.

Only issue I've seen so far is the multimedia will fail to load my profile and I have to re-login which is a pain. Not seeing anything else above though.

[Cyker]

10 hours ago, Kermit746 said:

Hi thanks for your message, and I totally agree and hope that this is the case as during my trip to work (only 7 miles 4 of which are motorway) the engine just reaches normal operating temperature. I was just slightly shock when performing the last oil check to see what I did. I would have expected to see slight signs of the creamy deposit (building up gradually) and not to that extent which is in the attached pics. I did clean all the deposit away and then take the car for a 38 mile motorway run.

On returning for the run the creamy deposit was back but much less, so fingers crossed all will be okay.

Its strange though as on my company Corolla 1.8 (70 plate), I have been doing the same trips during the winter but never had an issue. I guess the 2.0 engine does less work and loses more heat, hence leading to condensation forming in the top of the engine.

Thanks again      

I suspect that is the case too - The 2.0 is one of Toyota's new "Dynamic Force" branded engines, and like the 1.5L one in my Yaris has a very high peak efficiency for a petrol engine, but from my time as a diesel head, I learned the problem with having an efficient engine is it generates much less waste heat so unless you're really pushing it, it takes a lot longer to heat up (Especially bad at this time of year, as the heater is also drawing heat from the engine to heat the cabin and stop the driver freezing to death!  )

[Kermit746]

Yes I believe and hope that to be the case. The engine always get up to the normal running temperature and on cold day when using the remote start facility to de-ice the car, by the time it come to the end of its run cycle (10min) and then I have got in, started it up again and done around a mile, the engine is up to it normal running temperature.

On the way home from work (7mile trip) the car's engine temp reaches the normal running temp at around the 5 mile mark. 

Given the above I am still 50/50 as the whether it is just the shortage of time at normal engine run temperature, causing condensation to form within the engine and generating the coffee cream in the rocker cover, oil filler cap and what I pictured on the dipstick, or is it something more drastic. 

I hope that it is the earlier rather than the later and should find out, end of play on the 23Jan2024.

Thanks for your message

[Bozz]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:50 AM, Kermit746 said:

I purchased a new 2023 2 litre model Corolla Hybrid GR sport in Sep2023. It's only just clocked up 1794 miles and when checking the oil recently I noticed a coffee cream deposit on the dipstick, inside the oil filler cap and inside the rocker cover.

On discovering this I was quite shocked as it indicates a possible coolant ingress into the engine.

I have another 70 plate corolla (company car) it's a 1.8 though and no issues with this (linked to covering the same weekly mileage (14 mile return trip to work).

I have been informed by my dealer that this is a know issue and Toyota don't have a fix for it ( issue occurring on low mileage vehicles, possible due to upper engine cooling).

This I don't get as the engine gets up to normal operating temperature, each way during my daily commute.

All that is advised to do is drop the oil and change the filter and take it for a long run, of which isn't really acceptable after spending over £30k on the vehicle.  

I find astonishing as there is no notification of this issue during the sales process and therefore the vehicle isn't fit for purpose.

I have requested that samples of the coffee cream and oil be taken, from the bottom of the sump, for lab analisis to rule out possible manufacturing defects (split in coolant path either in the block or head and coolant ingressing into the oil path).

This was also a sudden change as I regularly check my oil and any gasket or seal failure would show a gradual deposit build up and nothing to this extent.

Has anyone else had this issue with their 2L 2023 models, as it is known and if the oil and filter aren't replaced more frequently it will cause engine damage?  See attached pics          
 

my MY2021 2.0 has done about 25Kmiles now and when I had took the oil filler cap off this morning there was a very small amount of mayonnaise inside the cap. None in the cam cover or on the dipstick.

My commute is a 10 mile round trip on B roads with mostly 50 to 60mph running and only one or two stops en route.

I also use the car to take the dogs to the starting point of their morning walk but this is not even 1/2 mile and in this weather the temp gauge only moves a little bit off the stop. Not ideal I  know.

I do longer runs perhaps once a month including motorway where the engine gets a good few hours at normal operating temperatures. 

[TonyHSD]

All normal occurrence.
Less we go and intervene with the cars , less unnecessary visits to dealers or unnecessary work done , longer the cars will live and serve us well.
My car - a pure example about that. 

[Joe 90]

Hi Kermit

If you view the Car Care Nut video entitled “Should I upgrade to the latest Toyota Rav 4” at about 18.50 into the video he explains all about condensation issues with Toyota engines and what you MUST do.
He is a 10 year experienced Toyota mechanic.  
 

So your problem is nothing to do with a head gasket problem, nothing to do with the 2.0 Corolla engine it is to do with the design and oil system of Toyota engines. 
If you have milky white oil showing when you pull the dipstick it needs to be got out of there ASAP otherwise your engine will  start to corrode. If you dont run the car a lot you need to keep a close eye on the state of the oil and in any case be changing the oil and filter every 5000 miles or 6 months which ever is the sooner. 

[Kermit746]

I am struggling to find this video, Any chance in forwarding me a link please. Cheers