Elections

[2toyos]

I hear labour is cleaning up, is everyone ready to have an even worse experience 😂 

[Bper]

Hi Mathew, Politicians and nappies have one thing in common they should both be changed regularly… and for the same reason.😂

[Haliotis]

Things may be a bit different this time.  In the past, the Tories have left office with a decent surplus in the Treasury, and then blown it during their term in office.  This time there is no surplus to blow, and Labour will have to learn thrift, or face a severe civil kick-back.

They have poo-pooed Tory policy in dealing with the immigration problem - soon they will be faced with the problem themselves.  Could be an interesting - though painful - time!

[2toyos]

4 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

Things may be a bit different this time.  In the past, the Tories have left office with a decent surplus in the Treasury, and then blown it during their term in office.  This time there is no surplus to blow, and Labour will have to learn thrift, or face a severe civil kick-back.

They have poo-pooed Tory policy in dealing with the immigration problem - soon they will be faced with the problem themselves.  Could be an interesting - though painful - time!

Well I believe we never recovered from the labour war and labour spending all the money and selling all of our gold at the lowest price, labour and Tories are the main reason this country is dead in the water, time for an actual change, get rid of both parties 

[Bper]

Not all time we have a two party state. The people are unwilling to give another party a chance, Reform for one.

[2toyos]

19 minutes ago, Bper said:

Not all time we have a two party state. The people are unwilling to give another party a chance, Reform for one.

I would of liked to see what they would of done to be honest 

[Cyker]

Given they're virtually proto-nazis I'd be less keen on seeing what they could do  

Personally I'm hoping for a hung parliament - They only way to stop them f'ing up the country any more is if none of them have enough to force through their idiotic ideas.

They keep saying UK wants change - I'd like some stability for a change!

If they can learn to co-operate instead of just antagonzing each other then I'll be less skeptical, but at the moment I have zero to negative confidence in any of the parties to do a half-decent job...

 

[Bper]

8 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Given they're virtually proto-!Removed! I'd be less keen on seeing what they could do  

Personally I'm hoping for a hung parliament - They only way to stop them f'ing up the country any more is if none of them have enough to force through their idiotic ideas.

They keep saying UK wants change - I'd like some stability for a change!

If they can learn to co-operate instead of just antagonzing each other then I'll be less skeptical, but at the moment I have zero to negative confidence in any of the parties to do a half-decent job...

 

Cyker are you saying that Reform are Proto-!Removed!?

[Cyker]

I've always seen them as a sort of National Front-lite - Not really keen on seeing them get any sort of influence or power tbh...

[Roy124]

Sort of agree with Cyker,  i think Reform has something for everyone but not everything for all.

We only had a PCC election.  Not one candidate of 5 put out a manifesto but all manifesto were on one website.

Some of our electorate (10% turnout) said they had looked.   One person said the only name he recognised was the sitting PCC.

The Reform candidate was laughable.   He would abolish the post.   That horse has gone.  It would simply move the work elsewhere.   The nub of his manifesto laid bare Reform thinking at a national level. 

It is to abolish or change everything anyone does not like.  It had no suggestion how it would replace what it discarded. 

I was minded to vote Reform but they offer no viable alternatives.   In that respect they are the same as the Lib Dems - an irritant but no pearls. 

[Bper]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

I've always seen them as a sort of National Front-lite - Not really keen on seeing them get any sort of influence or power tbh...

The Reform party has campaigned for policies such as Brexit, reducing immigration, and reforming the electoral system. They generally support free market economics, deregulation, and a smaller role for the state in the economy. They also prioritise issues like reducing government spending and bureaucracy, promoting individual freedoms, and addressing what they perceive as political correctness and cancel culture. l think its a long way from national front lite and with people screaming for this government to do something about both legal and illegal migration along with this net zero BS I would certainly like to see if they would actually do what they said.

How can they be any worse then what we have have. Labour are going to walk into government, and if we thought this lot are bad then we haven't seen anything yet.

[Roy124]

Bob a succinct summary, but no suggestion suggestion of how to achieve anything.  Just to take immigration, neither main party has the ability to do what is necessary. 

I think illegal immigration is hyped as the problem for many reasons.  I think local concentration,  or risk thereof, is the fear.  The only real action is deny all access and return to sender.  Illegal is illegal. 

Then we have the human rights,  humanitarian actions, evangelical conversion etc, and open immigration centres.

No government is prepared to secure them offshore or in secure camps in UK.  In many cases an open centre offers better food, accommodation and facilities but they want more.

Sorry, this is about Reform.   How do  they achieve that aim.

 

[Primus1]

There’s no such thing as illegal immigration,at least as the small boats crossing the channel go, we used to have safe routes with proper processing, but, of course, the tories cut back on the spending as with everything else…

[2toyos]

10 hours ago, Bper said:

The Reform party has campaigned for policies such as Brexit, reducing immigration, and reforming the electoral system. They generally support free market economics, deregulation, and a smaller role for the state in the economy. They also prioritise issues like reducing government spending and bureaucracy, promoting individual freedoms, and addressing what they perceive as political correctness and cancel culture. l think its a long way from national front lite and with people screaming for this government to do something about both legal and illegal migration along with this net zero BS I would certainly like to see if they would actually do what they said.

How can they be any worse then what we have have. Labour are going to walk into government, and if we thought this lot are bad then we haven't seen anything yet.

100% agree, why not give another party a chance, I like what they claim they can achieve, but no, looks like Labour, they will do exactly what the Tories have done, they just word it differently, I see Kahn will win again 😂😂 the population is a joke

[Bper]

1 hour ago, Primus1 said:

There’s no such thing as illegal immigration,at least as the small boats crossing the channel go, we used to have safe routes with proper processing, but, of course, the tories cut back on the spending as with everything else…

Hi Alan, Illegal immigration refers to the act of entering a country without authorisation, regardless of the means. While it's true that safe and legal routes are essential, unauthorised crossings still constitute illegal immigration.

[Primus1]

1 hour ago, Bper said:

Hi Alan, Illegal immigration refers to the act of entering a country without authorisation, regardless of the means. While it's true that safe and legal routes are essential, unauthorised crossings still constitute illegal immigration.

Morning bob

which law are they breaking?, and why do they not arrest these asylum seekers and imprison them…?

[Haliotis]

3 hours ago, Primus1 said:

There’s no such thing as illegal immigration,at least as the small boats crossing the channel go, we used to have safe routes with proper processing, but, of course, the tories cut back on the spending as with everything else…

This opinion on immigration does worry me.  Bob is quite correct in his assessment of the situation.  The illegal immigrants are now in sufficient numbers to start destabilising the UK economy, and they do not care what damage they are causing.  Those who support their being here are, to be honest, enemies of the state.  The latest idiocy is that of claiming these illegal immigrants are victims, and accusing the government of human trafficking in their efforts to deport them. Bull****.

Who is saddened by the tragedies of illegals dying in their attempt to cross the channel?  It doesn’t bother me, because they bring this about themselves - I certainly haven’t contributed to any deaths.

REcently there has been suggestions of a return to conscription - and any would-be conscripts would probably be in worse accommodation than the illegal immigrants who even get around £45/week “pocket money at the UK taxpayers’ expense.  Would you be happy to see your loved ones putting their life on the line for a country that is already being handed over to swarming aliens?

[Primus1]

1 minute ago, Haliotis said:

This opinion on immigration does worry me.  Bob is quite correct in his assessment of the situation.  The illegal immigrants are now in sufficient numbers to start destabilising the UK economy, and they do not care what damage they are causing.  Those who support their being here are, to be honest, enemies of the state.  The latest idiocy is that of claiming these illegal immigrants are victims, and accusing the government of human trafficking in their efforts to deport them. Bull****.

Who is saddened by the tragedies of illegals dying in their attempt to cross the channel?  It doesn’t bother me, because they bring this about themselves - I certainly haven’t contributed to any deaths.

REcently there has been suggestions of a return to conscription - and any would-be conscripts would probably be in worse accommodation than the illegal immigrants who even get around £45/week “pocket money at the UK taxpayers’ expense.  Would you be happy to see your loved ones putting their life on the line for a country that is already being handed over to swarming aliens?

Oh dear…

[Cyker]

14 hours ago, Bper said:

The Reform party has campaigned for policies such as Brexit, reducing immigration, and reforming the electoral system. They generally support free market economics, deregulation, and a smaller role for the state in the economy. They also prioritise issues like reducing government spending and bureaucracy, promoting individual freedoms, and addressing what they perceive as political correctness and cancel culture. l think its a long way from national front lite and with people screaming for this government to do something about both legal and illegal migration along with this net zero BS I would certainly like to see if they would actually do what they said.

How can they be any worse then what we have have. Labour are going to walk into government, and if we thought this lot are bad then we haven't seen anything yet.

My issue with Reform and their predecessors is the same with other 'populist' parties - All that stuff they say, I get the impression they just say it because that's what people want to hear, not because they intend to actually implement it or how they will make it work.

They're basically selling you a dream.

The same tactics they used to sell Brexit, and look how that turned out - All the things they promised, they now say they never said that or their words were taken out of context.

I would expect similar results if they got into power, with the additional result when people got uppity at them that they'd start blaming everything on *insert minority group here* and whipping people up with compelling speeches and the media, and then the disturbing possibility of history repeating itself rears its ugly head.

 

My whole problem with the political system is everybody is obsessed with change and reform, but what does that even mean?

I want stability and improvement, which seem to be things that are constantly overlooked. They just love to throw out everything the previous party did and start with completely new systems that no doubt sounded good in someones head but are a massive PITA in the real world.

Instead they should keep what works and make small incremental improvements to things that don't, but no, every time it's out with the whole bathroom, bath, water, baby and all.

This is why I personally am hoping for a hung parliament - They need to learn to co-operate. Our economy won't support grandiose projects in a single term any more - They need to be done on a much longer time-scale, and that'll never happen if the next party or even just person just comes in and cancels the project, wasting the billions already spent on it, every time.

 

[Bper]

14 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Bob a succinct summary, but no suggestion suggestion of how to achieve anything.  Just to take immigration, neither main party has the ability to do what is necessary. 

I think illegal immigration is hyped as the problem for many reasons.  I think local concentration,  or risk thereof, is the fear.  The only real action is deny all access and return to sender.  Illegal is illegal. 

Then we have the human rights,  humanitarian actions, evangelical conversion etc, and open immigration centres.

No government is prepared to secure them offshore or in secure camps in UK.  In many cases an open centre offers better food, accommodation and facilities but they want more.

Sorry, this is about Reform.   How do  they achieve that aim.

 

Hi Roy,the Reform Party aims to address concerns around illegal immigration with a focus on local concentration and risks associated with it. They advocate for stringent measures, including denying all access and returning individuals to their country of origin, emphasising that illegal means illegal. Additionally, they highlight challenges related to human rights, humanitarian actions, and open immigration centers, suggesting that governments should secure immigrants offshore or in secure camps within the UK. The Reform Party prioritises robust enforcement and a firm stance on immigration policies to achieve their goals.

 

[Bper]

8 minutes ago, Cyker said:

My issue with Reform and their predecessors is the same with other 'populist' parties - All that stuff they say, I get the impression they just say it because that's what people want to hear, not because they intend to actually implement it or how they will make it work.

They're basically selling you a dream.

The same tactics they used to sell Brexit, and look how that turned out - All the things they promised, they now say they never said that or their words were taken out of context.

I would expect similar results if they got into power, with the additional result when people got uppity at them that they'd start blaming everything on *insert minority group here* and whipping people up with compelling speeches and the media, and then the disturbing possibility of history repeating itself rears its ugly head.

 

My whole problem with the political system is everybody is obsessed with change and reform, but what does that even mean?

I want stability and improvement, which seem to be things that are constantly overlooked. They just love to throw out everything the previous party did and start with completely new systems that no doubt sounded good in someones head but are a massive PITA in the real world.

Instead they should keep what works and make small incremental improvements to things that don't, but no, every time it's out with the whole bathroom, bath, water, baby and all.

This is why I personally am hoping for a hung parliament - They need to learn to co-operate. Our economy won't support grandiose projects in a single term any more - They need to be done on a much longer time-scale, and that'll never happen if the next party or even just person just comes in and cancels the project, wasting the billions already spent on it, every time.

 

It seems like many of us you're fed up with the political game of promising the world without real plans for implementation. You value stability and gradual progress over flashy promises that often lead to disappointment. A hung parliament could indeed foster the cooperation needed for more sustainable, long term policies. Its not such a bad Idea.

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 hours ago, Primus1 said:

which law are they breaking?

Illegal Immigration Act 2023 for one ...

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/illegal-migration-bill#bill-documents

Back to the topic subject please - Elections

[Haliotis]

The real problem is that, no matter what party they represent, the leaders now all come from a very narrow vein of the general population.  For example, years ago a Labour PM would probably have come from a working class background, earned his/her place in society by having a good education, and then worked his/her way up the government ladder.

Now pretty well all prospective PM’s have come from privileged backgrounds, and their chosen ministers have risen from similar beginnings, and this applies in power and opposition.  So they will have the same failings and aspirations - opposing the opposite parties and at the same time saying what they believe the general public want to hear.  But they have one common agenda - power, public recognition, and the ability to drive the country forwards on their own self-satisfying policies.  They will offer what seem to be promises, but their manifestos are simply sales talk to get us on side, and they will always find scapegoats to blame when these “promises” are not met.

[Cyker]

That and the hollow promises, but that's partly our fault.

If a party came out of a completely honest manifesto, literally nobody would vote for them because we've such impossibly high expectations from all the lies being promised by others.

And as you say the liars are really good at throwing everyone else to the wolves when they get caught out, but we let them.

That said I'm hoping the Post Office thing will show at least some of them there's still comeuppance for that sort of behaviour and make them a bit more honest...

[Haliotis]

I found the Horizon incident to be absolutely sickening.  Until then, I would not have believed that such a miscarriage of justice could have happened in the UK.   It should be a lesson to us all that, if we don’t keep an eye on “authority”, then this type of ugliness can just as easily happen in the UK as in any banana republic around the world.