Looking To Get A Celica... Maybe Gt4...

[krycek]

Hi people :)

The time has come to get a new car... I've set a limit for myself of £3,500 - I hope I'll get a nice bit of car for that money, even though it's not a fortune!

I was thinking about something like a plain old boring Vectra, say a 2.0 or 2.5 - or a 2.0 406 - or maybe a 2.5 Mazda Zedos 9. Trouble is, they all handle like crap - right?

The temptation of the cars above is basically I get a newer car for my money, and more creature comforts. But I am a person that likes to drive - I love throwing my car around corners and accelerating quickly etc. I don't drive very fast on our UK roads - I try to stick to the spped limits ;) - but I'm very much a driver at the end of the day, in that I enjoy it very much. So I'm thinking maybe I would not like being stuck in a brick, despite cruise control and air con!

I was seriously thinking of getting a Celica GT4 six months ago, but I decided to wait a bit longer. So now my current scrap heap is falling apart and I really need another car in the next week or so, so I've once more come to seriously looking at the Celica.

I considered the MR2, but it only has 2 seat and I've never driven a mid-engined car.

So I think yes to the Celica, and I love the look of them - I want one in black, definitely. But do I go for the GT4, or just the GT? A friend of mine is warning me about all the extra bills I could have for the 4WD. And it's true, I have no idea about car mechanics, just about driving them, so I am nervous about buying a heap, too.

So... for my £3,500, am I likely to get a nice GT4 that is worth the money and will be an ok car for me? Or should I settle for the GT.

I have been looking on fish4cars, and also trying to get an idea from eBay, but I want to go and see the car first, and that's a problem if it's not near me. I don't really want to go driving all over the place, you know? I'm in Bristol by the way.

So where should I look - where's the best place to find a reliable GT/GT4? And should I go for the GT4 or forget it.

Thanks :)

[sotal]

What generation of Celica do you want?

The gen 5's (which were up to about 94 I think) had pop up headlights. The gen 6's (which were 94 - 99) had the four round lights at the front (like mine)

You would get a gen5 GT4 for that money but you would struggle to find a nice gen6 GT4. Although you could get a gen6 GT. The GT4's are expensive to repair and guzzle fuel! I don't think it's the 4wd drive parts that are the problem though - I think it's the suspension - as they use some kind of fancy system which costs about a grand to rpelace and goes at about 60-70K miles.

You could consider an import. Some people get scared of imports because of the risk of higher insurance premiums. A lot of insurance companies such as Norwich Union won't charge you any more if the car is on their database and some other companies won't charge you any more if the same model is available here. Having said that some companies WILL try to charge you more. Another problem with the imports is that they are setup to run on better fuel. You will need to run them on Optimax/Superunleaded and you should use an octane booster as well to get them up to 100RON

Standard Fuel in our country is 95RON, Superunleaded is 97RON and Optimax is Up to 98RON - Also there are rumours that higher octane fuel has an expiry date and will only last a week or so in your tank before dropping to more liek 95 RON

Hope this info helps - if you have any more questions - just post!

[krycek]

Hmmmm so maybe I should stick to a GT... ok, this next question may seem odd seeing as this is a Toyota forum and all, and owners will of course have some bias ;) but I am trying to decide between a Celica and a Mitsubishi FTO GPX (2.0 MiVEC V6). The downside is that all FTOs are imports, are a little pricey, and cost twice as much to insure. The upside is that they look very nice and are very very fast. But I have no idea what they are like to drive as I have only just started looking, and I don't know how much faster than a Celica they would be. So let's see what people say that will convince me to stick with looking for a Celica rather than an FTO :)

...back to scouring fish4cars and local ads...

[GT4 BOOSTER]

ft0 , 2 litre v6 = 200 bhp - manuals are rare - go rusty around arches

celica , 2 litre 4 cylinders = 173 bhp - nearly all manuals - built like a tank.

[sotal]

Both are a good choice - I really like the FTO's. It's up to you at the end of the day. I'm sure you wouldn't be dissapointed with either

[daktari]

Friend of mine recently bought a FTO. Handles very nicely Loved the sequential gearchange thingy. :D , but i found the interior very claustrophobic & the looks IMO are an aquired taste . Also as GT4Booster (Marc) pointed out rust could be an issue. Not just on the arches. Most Japanese imports appear not to have been rustproofed underneath.

Oh and the FTO alternator is a whopping 700 quid if it goes wrong. Which is a possibility because the designers in their infinate wisdom decided to stick it at the rear of the engine underneath (Directly above the O/S driveshaft.). It`s going to pick up all manner of rubbish there. No engine undertray to protect it either.

The GT4 is not a bad car at all. Can be thirsty but can also be reasonably economical if driven with care. (Yeah... Right ) It`s just the Gen6 GT4 which was fitted with the super strut suspension. Gen 5 GT4 is normal set up. The GT is not much slower in every day conditions but on damp or twisty roads the GT4`s come into there own... And how. oh and the Turbo boost is addictive..... Very addictive. :D

You can buy an awful lot of cars for 3.5K but i think your thinking along the right lines. Best thing to do is get out there and start driving everything you can to see what suits you best. Happy hunting.

[sotal]

You also haven't mentioned your age - Not that I'm being nosey but a GT4 or FTO will be expensive to insure if you are youngish.

Both the GT4 and FTO will be wasted on UK roads - it will be hard to unleash the full amount of power without breaking the law - I expect it takes quite a disciplined driver to not lose the licence in a GT4

Having said that though I have a motorbike which will out run the GT4 so I could say that would be useless because I can never go 150mph on the roads, but I guess it is the rate of change which you gain. You CAN drive fast without breaking speed limits if you can accelerate quicker to the limit.

If you are not after outright performance then I would seriously consider the 2.0GT or even the 1.8ST Celica. I have the 1.8ST and it has plenty of power espicially for the roads I drive on. I've just been reading on Celica Club UK about how they reckon that the 1.8 is actually quicker on normal roads than the 2.0. This is due to the 1.8 having the FE series engine instead of the GE series which is in the 2.0. The FE series is designed to have loads of torque from low down, wheras the GE series needs revving to find power. Once up to speed the 2.0 would be faster - but how often do you get up to speed???

The 1.8 will also give you good returns for your fuel around 35-40mpg. You should be able to pick up an S reg for around £3500 - If you do go for the 1.8 try to get an SR which is the special edition and has the luxury of aircon, nice alloys and the spoiler (not sure if it got side skirts)

[KidKoala]

Your bike would break the speed limit if you changed into 2nd gear at full chat.

[MIP]

If you are not after outright performance then I would seriously consider the 2.0GT or even the 1.8ST Celica. I have the 1.8ST and it has plenty of power espicially for the roads I drive on. I've just been reading on Celica Club UK about how they reckon that the 1.8 is actually quicker on normal roads than the 2.0. This is due to the 1.8 having the FE series engine instead of the GE series which is in the 2.0. The FE series is designed to have loads of torque from low down, wheras the GE series needs revving to find power. Once up to speed the 2.0 would be faster - but how often do you get up to speed???

Your not wrong, it does need the rev's to really pick up, it all changes after about 3-4k?. I imagine it'd be easier to drive an FE engine, more a case of just putting your foot down and your off. I was slightly disappointed at first but Its just about adapting your driving style. Dropping into 2nd gear at 30-40mph feels totally wrong at first, but god do you take off, with a loverly noise all the way to 7k to boot, and if you change up after putting the revs up, it comes back in on the power, nice shove into the back of your seat. I really enjoy it now. I spose as a result, I generally drive and accelerate gently with the lower rev's, and thus it tends to be alot more rare for me to be tempted to push the car, which is good really. If I was pushing it, its easy to do from a standing start, I can often just change down to bring in the power, and on a track I could keep the rev's high. Its not quite as easy as just flooring it, as I spose you do with the FE engine.

I'm impressed with my 1998 Celica GT. Its now done 100k miles, but its very smooth, burns no oil. Infact the oil on the dipstick looks as clear as if it where new, and yet the last service was a few thousand miles ago. Unlike my old car where oil on the dipstick was blackened.

So yea, I love my gen 6 GT. It cost £4300 (including a brand new clutch, and the leather seats I really wanted, the side skirts, and it being a uk car with full mr t service history, and 3 months warrenty), I was really stretching my budget at the time, but it seems worth it for those extra's. Of the celica's I test drove, the ones over 80k miles seemed a bit heavy and worn on the clutch.

[GT4 BOOSTER]

imported ss1's have the 3sfe engine in and are very torquey in all gears and an easier drive than the 3sge.

[daktari]

Both the GT4 and FTO will be wasted on UK roads - it will be hard to unleash the full amount of power without breaking the law - I expect it takes quite a disciplined driver to not lose the licence in a GT4

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Yes it does........ I`m a good well disciplined driver.

Having said that though I have a motorbike which will out run the GT4

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Is that on a wet or dry road? :P :P :P :P :P

[sotal]

It's not allowed out in the wet since the oil on wet road incident :D So it'll have to be dry

[SMW]

All things considered - if I was you I would buy THIS

[daktari]

Yeah. know what you mean. Too many bad experiences with diesel etc when i had no choice but to ride a bike in all seasons. Fair weather biker now and loving it.

[h45san]

alrite m8, my brother has a celica gt4 gen 5, in black!

if ur interested????

let me no if u r

thanks

[krycek]

Hi guys

Thanks for the comments! I went and had a look around at a garage which had both a Celica and an FTO in stock, and I have to say I prefer the looks of the FTO, but it's a close thing... the insurance on the FTO is twice as much tho, which sucks a bit. I'm 23, with 3 years NCB. I can insure a GT4 for under £600 but the FTO will cost almost £1200.

I'm still deciding whether the tiptronic on the FTO is a good or bad thing. I am going to see a manual transmission M-reg GPX tomorrow, but I like the idea of the tiptronic in that you can choose auto or manual, essentially. But I have read it is slower? Not sure how it should be slower if you are in sports mode selecting the gears yourself, but maybe that's the wrong question to ask here... or not... you guys seem to know your cars! :)

I'm a little concerned about the obvious lack of service history for FTOs, which are of course all imported. And I can't argue with the reliability of Toyotas. They are indeed built like tanks. Which generation saw the demise of the pop-up headlights? If I get a GT4, it will probably be around 1994/5, which of course doesn't have the pop-ups, but I have no idea if that is g6/7 or whatever.

At the end of the day, I'm after a good-looking car (they are both very nice!) that handles well (I'm told the FTO has the edge here? But maybe not over the GT4?) and performs well (again, FTO? Having never driven a GT4, I can't really imagine the difference the AWD makes). After all that comes creature comforts and extras like leather or whatever.

Seems like I have convinced myself to up my budget to £5k, although I'd still happily settle for a nice £3k motor if I found one. What kind of GT4 would I get for that money? I mean, what age, what extra stuff etc.

And finally... h45san, I have no idea who you are, your first post was to me about the celica you say your brother has for sale - well, no offence, but I can't trust you. Depending on where you are I may take a look - after all, I'm shopping - but don't expect anything. I'm a lot more likely to be uninterested. It's not even like you're a regular, trusted forum member. (Of course, neither am I, but I'm not selling anything!)

[krycek]

All things considered - if I was you I would buy THIS

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wow - just checked that out - that's mighty impressive! But I get the impression that it's a very recent import, or maybe not even here yet? (text on the left, but I will certainly investigate further).

my question with that car would mainly be whether I could buy with confidence. it looks very nice and adds up well on paper. but how would it compare to an M-reg FTO GPX (manual)? Would it be faster? Would the ride be better? Very, very tempting tho... you've got me thinking now! :D

[Tom.B]

The triprtonic thing is quite good on the FTO..but not amazing. my mate had the 2l v6/24v triptronic in a manual version. When I got my gen5 we tested them against each other on a old resevoir road. From a rolling start he only managed to keep up with me till we were both in 5th doing around 120mph. He said the FTO kept up but didnt gain on the Celica. Top end though the FTO would win. Also I must admit to loving the looks of an FTO..but not from the back theyre not very nice from that view!! (please note the cars were run on "private land" not public roads)

Hope that helps in some way :)

[sotal]

To answer your questions from before a 94/95 M reg would be a Gen 6 with the 4 lights like mine. The J reg you were looking at is a Gen 5 (popup lights)

For £3500 you would get a decent gen5 GT4 or a decent gen6 GT/ST

For £5000 you should be able to get a gen6 GT4 (may have to be an import) Have a look on autotrader. I went past a garage near us the other day and it had a UK N reg GT4 immaculate for £7995 in silver which I thought was far too expensive - I was going to have a look the next time I went past to see why it was worth so much but the garage had gone bust! There's a 4x4 place there now

[GTForbes]

i've had my gen5 GT4 for a year now turning 23 in 2 days i wouldn't give it up for the world, ask my dad , he's trying to convince me to sell up and invest in a flat. a few of my mates have FTO's and i love the sound of the V6 engine but they are just too lazy low down in the rev range,

on the 1/4 mile they always got beaten off the line and were just too slow to catch up with 4 cylinder 2.0litres. altho the FTO's look nice and sound lovely they also have the nick name FTSlow's for a reason. buy yourself a GT4, even on import they are still cheaper to insure than an FTO :P

[sotal]

^ Sounds Like good advice :D