Rav Vs. X3? Ding! Ding!

[abraxas]

Ok, ok, nothing controversial...

I just wanted to ask for some opinions from guys (and gals) who had both of these (for longer than a 20 min test drive)...

After various problems with our RAV (which have hopefully been resolved now... long story, I may write it all up at some point) I have been kicking myself for not going for a BMW X3 instead. (I know this is going to be controversial here... but I am just rebuilding my confidence in RAVs). Hey, the good news is that at least I have never beem tempted by NedFlanders or "the ugly one" :)

Anyhow, In the last couple of days I noticed a couple of people that went from RAV to X3 (Manxrav) and the other way X3 to RAV (Fujisan, I think). So, any chance you would do us a favour and write a short comparison/opinions?

Thanks!

Of course, I'd miss the ToC/RAV4 banter if I went for the X3... :)

[anchorman]

You won't be banned for getting an X3 In any case we would need to be kept informed of progress and made to feel better about maintenance costs ;)

[abraxas]

How does that song go again "...Hangman, hold it a little while..." :)

Not crossed the line yet. Just lost a spare tyre (unfortunately not the one around my waist :) )... but still a RAV-er*.

* - After many problems with the first car (XT4) we now have an XTR. (Hopefully a problem free one... as a Toyota should be).

[bothwell_buyer]

haha

spent this afternoon chatting to a bmw owner - his was in the garage for suspension problems - my number 1 was in for the rolling road !! :lol: :lol:

[Tom 2009]

An X3 is a fine vehicle and handles great for a vehicle in this segment, but if I were to get a BMW, I would rather get a traditional 3-series or a 5-series and enjoy it.

Also, compared to my V6, the X3 would have a smaller engine and 44 less horsepower (assuming a 3.0L model with 225 HP)

[local hero]

The Beamer is probably an excellent vehicle + having the BMW Badge is prob worth a few extra £/$ But IMO it can't make up its mind what it is, It doesn't look like an SUV it just looks like a pumped up 3 series estate, it totally lacks any character of its own..Even dare i say the Honka might be ugly but at least it is individual + probably better built..

[St Thicket]

The main problem with BMW is that they are part hand made, and the quality control is not as good as Toyota. Also, the Germans love to put all sorts of electronics into their cars, and thus creating lots of problems when things fail.

Toyota on the other hand is mainly made by robots, and were in their time pioneers on quality control, and are still one of the best. No wonder why Toyota is considered the largest car manufacturer on earth. There are of course some issues with the DMF, but the engines seem to go forever.

The secondary problem with BMW is the design. If I were the owner of the company, I would fire Dame Edna, because she (he) is clearly the chief designer... the cars are awful! I would rather have a Fiat Multipla than a BMW of any model. If I had to chose between a X3 and a Lada Niva... the choice would have been easy :)

[Plutus]

i considered an X3 before I bought the Rav. Drove it for a day (i.e. more than 20 mins). with the 16" wheels it was OK (19" were terrible). Was offered an awful trade-in against the vehicle I wanted to swap. So, bought RAv instead and kept the other. The main attraction of the X3 was the engine range on offer along with an auto diesel.

I can't understand why Toyota, having invented the SUV with the RAV, have allowed others to catch up and overtake them in this respect. The RAV is a cracking vehicle but you have a choice of one petrol engine and one diesel (except T180 where you HAVE to have run-flats). Over a 5 year period financially RAV will beat X3 easily both in running costs and depreciation.

The Tiguan is more serious competition these days and that is available with auto diesel and petrol.

[dave.m]

Apologies in advance to Clare (Manxrav) but when it came to falling out the ugly tree, the X3 was'nt that far behind the CRV (IMHO).

[sywy]

Has Clare got a X3 now? I thought she had a 1 series?

Anyway, I agree with Dave. I'm not very keen on it's looks.

[Manxrav]

Yep Clare now runs an X3 2ltr SE. As I said in a previous post it is the next best thing to a T180. The version I got was with Effective Dynamics and the 177bhp diesel engine, but the main difference overthe T180 was the MPG ( an xtra 10 mpg over the Rav). The biggest complaint I have with the BMW is like all german cars is that you get a fairly decent spec but to bring it up to T180 levels it costs a fortune ( try doing a build on BMW,s website and just see how much more it would cost you). The X3 as it is at the moment and I think for at least another year, is begining to look a little bit dated as it is based on a previous model 3 series. Also did you know that it is not built by BMW, it is built by a sub-contractor in Austria, the first ones were very heavely critised for poor interiors as well.

You ask about the 1 series which we changed to after the T180 well we still have that one in the family my Dad runs that . I bought the X3 for myself as I was not over keen on the ! series space wise it was too small after the T180!!!!.

One thought I do have is that if we had got a XT5 or XT4 with the less BHP engine we still would have had it because of the better MPG of that engine.

Regards Clare

[Fujisan]

Anyhow, In the last couple of days I noticed a couple of people that went from RAV to X3 (Manxrav) and the other way X3 to RAV (Fujisan, I think). So, any chance you would do us a favour and write a short comparison/opinions?

Thanks!

Spot on! That's me, from the X3 to the RAV.

First things first, I loved the X3 or should I say, I loved the 6 cylinder 3.0 litre petrol engine!

It had the power (and the four wheel drive traction) to send kids in their hot hatches crying back home to mother!

The Auto box was dream and when you slipped it in manual, you really could had a lot of fun

Handling was great, at the time I lived in the country and it was a blast down the country lanes, for such a big car.

Ride quality was no problem (to me any), even on 18" wheels.

I bought it six months old when it had already taken a big depression hit, fully loaded with every toy imaginable - TV, SAT NAV, panaramic sunroof, heated steering wheel - missed that during the recent cold weather , the list goes on.

Size, roughly about the same has the RAV. Interior quality, no problems, no squeaks. In fact no faults with the car - full stop.

Arr, you ask why did he change?

It had a drink problem :D It really could not bare to pass a petrol station without dropping in and saying hello.

21 mpg was a good day. :( And has you might have gathered I did like to had fun with all that power!

Full bore acceleration was (usually :P ) brought to a halt with a quick glace over to the on board computer reading something in single mpg figures!

I did consider riding out the costs, the ever increasing road tax, etc., and hanging on to it but at the time it just no long made financial sense and had to go.

Did I consider a X3 2.0d? No. It would have brought back to many memories. If your going to make a change, make it a clean break, I say.

Do I miss it. Yes, or should I say I miss that power!

[Manxrav]

Funny thing Fuji, I too was offered a 2.5 petrol at stupidly low money with all the toys but it only did at best 25 mpg!!! That is why I obviously went for the 2ltr diesel. Even the 3ltr diesel version does more than the 2.5 petrol. They also do a twin-turbo 3ltr diesel version as well. One thing that I didn,t reseach when buying was that you can buy an M/sport version and have the sports suspension deleted at no xtra cost, I personally think the M version is a better looker than the SE version

regards Clare

[Fujisan]

Funny thing Fuji, I too was offered a 2.5 petrol at stupidly low money with all the toys but it only did at best 25 mpg!!! That is why I obviously went for the 2ltr diesel. Even the 3ltr diesel version does more than the 2.5 petrol. They also do a twin-turbo 3ltr diesel version as well. One thing that I didn,t reseach when buying was that you can buy an M/sport version and have the sports suspension deleted at no xtra cost, I personally think the M version is a better looker than the SE version

regards Clare

I test drove a 2.5 petrol auto when they first came out and though that engine lacked a bit of grunt. The auto box seemed to hunt up and down to make up for it.

Now, the 3.0 litre diesel twin turbo! Now your talking.

[chatman]

I test drove a 2.5 petrol auto when they first came out and though that engine lacked a bit of grunt. The auto box seemed to hunt up and down to make up for it.

Now, the 3.0 litre diesel twin turbo! Now your talking.

Fuji my neighbour still has his X5 4.4 54 plate for sale....Cant seem to sell it..... ;) ;) ;) ;) It also has all the toys and electronic gizmo's.... He's got a Jeep Patriot diesel now...uses a months diesel that the X5 would use in a week of petrol equivalent driving.....

So if you feel the urge...I can pass on the details..... :lol: :lol:

See in the paper 800 acres of HONDA cars and most where Civis and the Ugly C:sick: versions.... Not even the birds fly over that place now for fear of dropping dead mid flight because of the sight..........

Bet the dealer would still quote a 4 week wait.... At least it would give you time to get to SpecSavers

[Dippy]

I had one on 4hr loan. I talked for 2 yrs about getting an X3 2.0d before changing at the last minute to the RAV4 (T180 minus RFTs).

I changed for very simple reasons - cost. As Clare says, when you add the extras to bring it up to spec, the BMW costs a fortune. Though personally I benefit from various discounts from different manufacturers, which skews the comparison. The Toyota cost me about 7000 euros less than the equivalent BMW.

Things I wanted from the BMW that I couldn't get in the Toyota:

Memory seats (spitting mad at this STUPID decision to put electric seat without memory - WHY???)

xenon headlights (I'm following the HID thread with great interest)

Vertical tailgate with no spare wheel (my 4.2 almost decapitated me a few times when parked on slopes)

Decent interior switchgear lighting (Toyota are truely mean with this) and various other creature comforts.

An amazingly car-like drive / driving position.

I was loaned the M-sport, it almost took my fillings out over a bumpy road.

Friend of mine has a BMW (3 series from 2000), it has various electrical gremlins, but a random BBS survey suggested this was an exception.

At the same time, I love just how quiet the Toyota is at speed, I love the manual passenger seat (useful for dealing with babies), and I love the fact that I had a 4.2 for 5 years with pretty much no mechanical complaint whatsoever - oh, except a knocking noise which never got sorted and became unbearable ;)

Hope this helps.

[Fujisan]

Fuji my neighbour still has his X5 4.4 54 plate for sale....Cant seem to sell it..... ;) ;) ;) ;) It also has all the toys and electronic gizmo's.... He's got a Jeep Patriot diesel now...uses a months diesel that the X5 would use in a week of petrol equivalent driving.....

So if you feel the urge...I can pass on the details..... :lol: :lol:

Ummm......power, power

Very tempting

[taffie999]

Dippy

How did you manage to get a T180 without runflats? these are preventing me from purchasing one. I thought the rfs were mandatory because of the tpms

[local hero]

Dippy

How did you manage to get a T180 without runflats? these are preventing me from purchasing one. I thought the rfs were mandatory because of the tpms

I have asked this question before + got no replies, If some very lucky person marched into a Toyota dealer and said I have £23000+ burning a hole in my pocket, i wish to buy a SR180, however I do not want run flat tyres would Mr T or the dealer be able to accomodate them? and if a lot of us did it maybe Mr T just might get the message..

[abraxas]

Thanks for all the opinions. I must say I expected a bit more of a pro-RAV response to this topic. :)

I only had a quick test drive of (a totally underpowered [and rather rare]) 2.0 petrol X3. I didn’t like the engine much on such a heavy car...but I did like all the rest. I found the seats really comfy, cabin well put together and well laid out, gearbox as smooth precise as you like, ride/cornering firm and responsive (for such a big car)...

I agree on the looks ... I like the look of the RAV a lot better. I thought the pre-facelift X3 front end looked like they got bored designing round about half way down the headlights and left the anti-paparazzi duck-tape instead of doing the bumper. Then the lad on the yoof training programme picked up the pencil and finished off with a pair of beady foglights. :) However, I think about it this way: I’ll be looking at the interior a lot more than the exterior... so I was not too bothered about the X3’s front end... And if I imagine if the one I drove had a more fitting powerful engine...mmmm

Anyways, long story short - ended up buying a RAV instead. Looked like a better value at the time. And it was a good choice considering that the petrol powered SUVs are a bit of an endangered species (Oh , and we absolutely hated the dealer that was selling that X3 (not a BMW garage), but that is a story in itself)

Maybe that’s just human nature and it is all about “grass being greener”, just as Claire is wondering if she’d be better off with a d-4d 140, I am wondering if I also made a mistake. So if you fancy a swap for a 2.2 XTR, Claire.. no? Didn’t think so... :) Enjoy your X3.

Coincidentally, I used to own a wee 3 series BMW before and found that (at least for the older cars) BMW was totally reasonable on servicing. (Main dealers quoted “inspection 1” – 125, “inspection 2”- 250 quid) (compared to Toyota’s 170/270) Parts were surprisingly cheap too. Labour charges for repairs at main dealers were a joke though...

And, briefly, as for the “ugly one”... as a kid I read a book on Soichiro Honda-san and that stuck with me and I developed some respect for the man, his vision and all that. I just couldn’t bare the blandness and lack of character of the boxy old version... :P Now if they sold the "Element" over here... I'd give that a good chance. If nothing else, because of brave and innovative design.

Phew... that was a bit long... sorry. Felt a bit obliged to give something back. I am always asking questions...

[bothwell_buyer]

Thanks for all the opinions. I must say I expected a bit more of a pro-RAV response to this topic. :)

.............................

Phew... that was a bit long... sorry. Felt a bit obliged to give something back. I am always asking questions...

I've seen and been in a BMW X3 - and my daughter almost lost an eye to the passenger door corner - and I drove a 3 series recently........ nope - no way am I a friendly supporter of the BMW - just nothing going for it other than scrap value cos its so heavy.

My 4.1 3 door is nice and light, wide wheels sticking to the road; performance better than most anything else on the road; brakes better than anything else I've ever driven; comfy and does just what I want. Then again I've had it for almost 15 years.

[Dippy]

Dippy

How did you manage to get a T180 without runflats? these are preventing me from purchasing one. I thought the rfs were mandatory because of the tpms

Sorry, the answer is in my location and my contribution to Anch's "Model Range" pinned thread. I've got a LHD equivalent. Some countries in Europe force you to take the 177bhp engine with RFTs, others don't. I don't know how this contributes to the "Bridgestone monopoly" argument, but it should be seen from wider than just the UK point of view. I was going to add to your thread that you could try Ireland or Cyprus, two EU countries with RHD, but I think you'd pay a lot more. (No idea if you can order a RHD version from a mainland Europe supplier??)

If it's any consolation, I couldn't get my car from Portugal as they refused to sell me a car with... a sunroof! So had to go to Spain for it. And now the dealer has stiffed me on the reverse sensors, and it will cost me 200 euro to travel back to fix it (not a warranty job).

Each country's importer has, it seems, some rather odd policies. But it shows that any issue is purely political, nothing to do with the mechanics. Otherwise I'd have a funny TPMS warning sensor on all the time - and to my knowledge (never tried reading the Spanish manual) I don't have TPMS.