Paranoid about used Yaris Hybrid

[allanmcfish]

Hi everyone,

this is my first post. I should clarify straight away that I live in Italy (and speak like so).

I just bought an used 2016 Yaris Hybrid with 170000 km (105633 miles) on the clock and since I know that the previous owner did not follow the services as strictly as I would like, I'm going paranoid about every little thing that might be wrong with the car. The car has been serviced by Toyota just two times. In the car I also found two stickers from two non Toyota services. Don't know about anything else.

The thing that I'm most worried about is that I'm feeling that the ICE is a little bit "rough" sometimes, especially when starting and on low/mild accelerations. It's like a slight vibration/stutter that I can feel mostly through the seat and the foot area (don't know how to call it). I don't feel it in the wheel.
My dad says that he doesn't notice anything, that it is just the ICE being a 3 cylinders and to not worry.. But I can't help but feel that it isn't quite right..
When accelerating harder (e.g. near or above the 'eco' zone upper limit) I do not feel it, the engine seems much smoother.

I do not feel this with our 2010-ish Auris, for example.

I don't know if I'm fixating over nothing.. what do you all think?

Going on with the questions..
I have yet to empty a full tank and do the calculation myself so I'm also worried about fuel consumption. Is it normal that whenever I'm accelerating or starting the car the fuel consumption goes to the roof?
When accelerating I see values above 10lt/100km (28 UK mpg). This morning when I started the car I even saw 40lt/100km for a moment (7 UK mpg). I will attach a picture of the dashboard.
I feel like the only way to keep it under 5lt/100km (56 UK mpg) is to keep my foot as steady as possible at around 70/80 km/h (43/49 mph) and wait for the CVT to lengthen the 'gears'.
Also, the dashboard is reporting 675 km for a full tank.. does it do this based on the data about the mean consumption? Will it slowly converge to my mean consumption (and not the previous owner's) or should I ask the technicians to reset it?

Anyway I already booked for a full service at Toyota, the big one, with the spark plugs change etc and I'm also awaiting an answer if they could also check if the car is okay (maybe they could drive it a bit) but since they are fully booked it's gonna be in one month and a half!
Last service that I know of was done at a generic mechanic a year (and 20000km/12430miles !!) ago! Should I be worried about waiting this much before getting it serviced?
I also noticed that the grid for the Battery air intake definitely needs some cleaning... it's dust everywhere.

What are your opinions? Am I over worrying? Is there anything in particular that I should/shouldn't do?

I'm sorry if some of this questions are stupid.. I'm just very worried because it is the first time for me buying a car. I'm 100% committed on making things last, to maintain them properly and to save money and I'm just being paranoid since I do not know how this car was treated (and how it behaved) before me.

Thank you sincerely

[MikeSh]

14 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

it is just the ICE being a 3 cylinders

It's a 4 pot in the Mk3.

 

14 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

Anyway I already booked for a full service at Toyota, ... but since they are fully booked it's gonna be in one month and a half!

If you aren't doing high mileages it'll probably be OK - it's got this far without dying. Just keep a close eye on the oil and water levels.

[allanmcfish]

12 minutes ago, MikeSh said:

It's a 4 pot in the Mk3.

Oh man.. You're right. Don't know where I read that. That makes that vibrations that I feel even less justified.

12 minutes ago, MikeSh said:

If you aren't doing high mileages it'll probably be OK - it's got this far without dying. Just keep a close eye on the oil and water levels.

As a rough estimate I might be doing 3000km / 1865 miles before the service.. how does that figure look?

I'm not much of a car guy so apologize for the stupid question: do you mean that I need to "physically" check the levels under the bonnet? I'm asking because I don't know if this car can/will tell you when you run low on oil/water. Also, is there just two levels that I need to check? I'm constantly assuming that these cars have tons of hyper technological stuff and that nothing from a regular car applies 🤔.

(I'm actually glossing over the fact that I couldn't even check the levels on my old '00 Lancia Y 🤕)
 

[allanmcfish]

20 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

As a rough estimate I might be doing 3000km / 1865 miles before the service.. how does that figure look?

Sorry, I made a mistake. Make it about 1750 km / 1087 miles.

[MikeSh]

2 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

I'm not much of a car guy so apologize for the stupid question: do you mean that I need to "physically" check the levels under the bonnet?

Not a stupid question. Yes, dipstick for the oil, look at the translucent tank for the coolant.

2 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

I'm asking because I don't know if this car can/will tell you when you run low on oil/water.

It will but only when things are really bad. You do not want to wait for those lights to be shining.

2 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

Also, is there just two levels that I need to check?

In terms of the engine, yes. Brake fluid is (obviously) important too, so while doing the others check that. Refer to handbook for where they are. (Hint. When looking at coolant or brake fluid I use one hand to push one side of the car to rock it a bit so the liquid moves in the tank. Makes it easier to see where the level is.

2 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

I'm constantly assuming that these cars have tons of hyper technological stuff and that nothing from a regular car applies

Nope. There's a lot of tech but the petrol engine is not much different from a regular car from your perspective.

2 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

Sorry, I made a mistake. Make it about 1750 km / 1087 miles.

That's not mad. As above keep an eye on the liquids, and maybe don't push it hard until it's had a proper service. If it hasn't been looked after things like brakes may not be 100% if pushed hard.

It's probably fine, but assume it's only 80% for now.

[nielshm]

Fuel consumption will be very high during acceleration. My own Corolla drops to 3 km/l. when hitting the throttle. 

The hybrid system it self does'nt require any special service. The Battery gets a check to see if capacity is OK, charge/discharge function is working properly. 

The 3 cylinder engine is a bit rough. It can make the car vibrate a bit, like it's out of balance. The newer models has improved a bit, but it's normal, and not a fault. 

[CPN]

9 hours ago, nielshm said:

The 3 cylinder engine is a bit rough. It can make the car vibrate a bit, like it's out of balance. The newer models has improved a bit, but it's normal, and not a fault. 

(as has already been pointed out, the OP has a Mk3 which is a 4 cylinder ICE not 3...)

@allanmcfish Driving a Toyota Hybrid is a whole new way of driving to get the best out of them. Gentle acceleration & braking are the key. Just relax and let the car's "brain" do the work. You'll find it a very relaxing drive.

As for the CVT, Toyota's implementation is rather unique and clever and does not behave like you would think that a conventional CVT would (ie. it doesn't use belts and variable pulleys) in the sense of "gears" or the like. It really only has 1 gear with a kind of "overdrive" (where it locks the planar ring in the power transfer device) above a certain speed.

[Roy124]

@allanmcfish the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Besides the other advice given I wouid suggest you clean it.

You already mentioned the Battery filter. No need to wait for the garage, clean as much as you can. 

With the poor maintenance I can guess neglect under the bonnet  and under the car.

A clean engine is easier to work on.  A clean engine will show up any corrosion or fluid leaks.

Try and clean under the wheel arches.  Examine the tyres for wear and damage.   If you need to get them replaced do it before the service it gives you time to chose.  If you leave to the garage you get what they offer at their price.

 

[allanmcfish]

Sorry everyone for the late response.

 

22 hours ago, MikeSh said:

Not a stupid question. Yes, dipstick for the oil, look at the translucent tank for the coolant.

It will but only when things are really bad. You do not want to wait for those lights to be shining.

In terms of the engine, yes. Brake fluid is (obviously) important too, so while doing the others check that. Refer to handbook for where they are. (Hint. When looking at coolant or brake fluid I use one hand to push one side of the car to rock it a bit so the liquid moves in the tank. Makes it easier to see where the level is.

Nope. There's a lot of tech but the petrol engine is not much different from a regular car from your perspective.

That's not mad. As above keep an eye on the liquids, and maybe don't push it hard until it's had a proper service. If it hasn't been looked after things like brakes may not be 100% if pushed hard.

It's probably fine, but assume it's only 80% for now.

Thank you for this advice! In the next days I will definitely check all of the levels. I'm going to take this as an opportunity to finally learn more about engines and what's under the hood of cars.
I'm surely not pushing it hard and most probably never will. Even though I'm a big motorsport fan I don't treat the public road like a racetrack 😝.
Anyway I will be even more careful until the service!

 

19 hours ago, nielshm said:

Fuel consumption will be very high during acceleration. My own Corolla drops to 3 km/l. when hitting the throttle. 

The hybrid system it self does'nt require any special service. The battery gets a check to see if capacity is OK, charge/discharge function is working properly. 

The 3 cylinder engine is a bit rough. It can make the car vibrate a bit, like it's out of balance. The newer models has improved a bit, but it's normal, and not a fault. 

When going for the Toyota service I will also do the Hybrid Health check in order to restore the warranty for a year on the battery/hybrid system and that will also give me a report about the Battery status. Since it hasn't been regularly serviced I will have to pay for this but anyway I can only do this for 2 years, then the car will have 10+ years and I will be on my own so it's not gonna be an enormous expense.

Like others have mentioned the Mk3 is a 4 cylinder so as it's my understanding that it should be smoother than a 3 cylinder.
Below I'm gonna expand on the vibrations.
 

10 hours ago, CPN said:

(as has already been pointed out, the OP has a Mk3 which is a 4 cylinder ICE not 3...)

@allanmcfish Driving a Toyota Hybrid is a whole new way of driving to get the best out of them. Gentle acceleration & braking are the key. Just relax and let the car's "brain" do the work. You'll find it a very relaxing drive.

As for the CVT, Toyota's implementation is rather unique and clever and does not behave like you would think that a conventional CVT would (ie. it doesn't use belts and variable pulleys) in the sense of "gears" or the like. It really only has 1 gear with a kind of "overdrive" (where it locks the planar ring in the power transfer device) above a certain speed.

I agree that is a very relaxing drive. I had already experienced the Toyota hybrid with our family Auris so I went with this car almost with my eyes closed because I already knew how it would be. As an example I can experience all of the strange "electronic" sounds (when opening the door, when braking, after locking the doors etc) without any thoughts because the Auris does exactly the same since day 1.

I'm now also reading about the various techniques for getting the best out of this cars and I'm already putting them into practice.

The two main things that bother me are:
- the fact that it is really difficult to accelerate without letting the ICE to kick in even if it will eventually shut down 4 seconds later (which feels a huge waste)
- that when cruising it won't switch to EV, even if all the conditions are met (under 70 kph, enough battery) unless you explicitly lift off and then press again

Maybe in the newer gen cars they improved this things?

Staying on the "cruising" topic: if I'm reading the dashboard correctly (the one that shows you Battery levels, energy fluxes etc) when cruising at 70/80 kph it shows that only the ICE is on but at the same time it seems that this situation is where the average fuel consumption drops (and I think that the online reviews also validate this).
How does this happen? Is it because the electric engine is used in the e-CVT "process" (but not being a direct "traction" engine) or is it actually just the plain ICE that gives this good fuel economy?
 

7 hours ago, Roy124 said:

@allanmcfish the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Besides the other advice given I wouid suggest you clean it.

You already mentioned the battery filter. No need to wait for the garage, clean as much as you can. 

With the poor maintenance I can guess neglect under the bonnet  and under the car.

A clean engine is easier to work on.  A clean engine will show up any corrosion or fluid leaks.

Try and clean under the wheel arches.  Examine the tyres for wear and damage.   If you need to get them replaced do it before the service it gives you time to chose.  If you leave to the garage you get what they offer at their price.

 

I already thought about cleaning the Battery filter myself. I'm assuming that I will need to access the filter from the inside, probably by removing the seat or something like that. Is it something that I can do fairly easily without risk of procuring damage?

I never thought about cleaning the engine or under the car. Should I simply just follow some regular tutorial on how to do it?

I think that the tyres are looking good. One very important thing that I haven't done yet is figure out if they are winter/summer/four seasons. I must do this also because here in Italy (probably also the rest of the world) there are restrictions on the usage of summer tyres on the highway (and probably in the mountains) during the winter.

For what it's worth I should also clarify that the car generally looks very good and not worn out so its not like it has been severely neglected from this point of view.

-------

Going back to my main concern:

I'm now 100% sure that the vibrations that I feel are from the ICE alone and, from a car noob as myself, I feel that they are even less justified on a 4 cylinders.
I'm trying to pinpoint this vibration and I can say that I definitely feel them when the ICE starts and many times when I'm mild-accelerating (as explained in my original post) or cruising (when the engine is at his lowest). I could probably say that in this order they are from most obvious to less obvious. Of course I know that every engine in this world will produce vibrations and this is not the first car I drive.
The reason that I'm concerned is that I can very much feel this on my legs/feet, on my seat etc. They are not extremely obvious, but they are definitely there.
Like I said, I do not feel this on the Auris (despite having a louder engine perhaps?).

Does this resonate in some way to other Yaris Hybrid Mk3 owners?

If not, what could be some of the reasons for this? Does this car have an EGR? I couldn't find information about it but I read that in other models a partially blocked EGR could cause vibrations.

The only reason I'm fixating over this is because I'm assuming that a "simple" service, even if it is the most complete, will not fix this. Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe this car behaves like this straight out of the factory.. but I think it's unlikely.

Anyway thank you all for you time and patience! Truly!

[MikeSh]

59 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

cruising at 70/80 kph it shows that only the ICE is on

In MK3 the ICE will always run above about 70kph regardless. It's how it is. (MK4 has a higher speed before ICE is obligated.)

59 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

and I can say that I definitely feel them when the ICE starts and many times when I'm mild-accelerating

That seems wrong. Except when stationary ice start and stop should be virtually undetectable by feel. I think there is something not right.

59 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

The only reason I'm fixating over this is because I'm assuming that a "simple" service, even if it is the most complete, will not fix this.

You need to tell the garage that it seems wrong - describe the symptoms - so they will actually check it. They should test drive after doing the service but better to give them a pointer before. If it's just a duff plug the service may fix it.

59 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

I never thought about cleaning the engine or under the car. Should I simply just follow some regular tutorial on how to do it?

If you aren't going to service it yourself I wouldn't bother. If the garage can't see the engine for dirt they'll blast it with whatever so they can.

[Mojo1010]

As mentioned above, the MK3 can only go upto 40MPH on EV - 64KPH. On the MK4 it can go higher 96+Kph.

Any problems get the garage to look into them. 

[Roy124]

@allanmcfish cleaning:

The air filter for the Battery draws in air from the outside so a powerful vacuum from the outside will get most of the crud off.  If caked/baked in you made need to loosen it with a stiff brush. 

Engine wise stripes of cloth to clean pipes (use a push pull sawing motion) to clean and ensure joins are clean.   A lightly oiled rag will be good to remove dust and water stains from all the surfaces. 

When you present a clean engine to a mechanic he will see that it has been cared for.

There are products for removing dirty oil spills.  Old spills will have attracted dirt like a magnetic.  It would be best for a professional engine clean to start with.   See the next post.

[Roy124]

@allanmcfish here are some clips from the web:

Steam cleaning a car engine is generally considered safe and effective as long as it is done properly. Steam cleaning can help remove dirt, grease, and other contaminants that may have accumulated on the engine over time. It can also help to identify any potential issues that may be hiding beneath the buildup.28 May 2020

Then:

 

Engine valeting is a specialised service and should be only done by experienced professionals.

We do engine valeting in the safest possible way. We spray the whole engine with special degreaser which is left to work for a few minutes.

Once degreaser has broken down most of the grease and dirt we then use a soft bristle brush and agitate all parts of the engine.

Engine bay and hood are then rinsed with low pressure and dried with soft towels.

All plastic covers are dressed with non-silicone dressing.

[hind]

27 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

The air filter for the battery draws in air from the outside

IIRC the Battery cooling intake in Yaris is from the inside of a car so much cleaner environment (pre-filtered with the cabin filter already).

[Roy124]

8 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

One very important thing that I haven't done yet is figure out if they are winter/summer/four seasons. I must do this also because here in Italy (probably also the rest of the world) there are restrictions on the usage of summer tyres on the highway (and probably in the mountains) during the winter.

All the detail you need is on the side of the tyre, make, model, ratings, size etc.  Make a note of all these, check each wheel as you may have different tyres on each wheel.  Google or ask here.

Check the tyre pressures when they are cold. My pressures change by about 4% with only a few miles driving at moderate speeds.  In your climate you will  have a large temperature difference summer and winter so regular check will be very important. 

You will find the required settings in the hand book or on the label on the drivers door post.

 

[Roy124]

@hind true but we don't know where Allan is, or how the car has been used.  If in the south the conditions may have been dusty; in the North, he mentioned winter tyres, more similar to Northern Europe. 

If the previous owners drove with windows open a lot then could be a lot more dust.

[hind]

He mentioned Italy 🙂

[flash22]

if OP is in Italy, fuel quality is a major issue, try running the car on some premium fuel, the hybrids do not run like a standard petrol, they do idle high on first start and when charging (basically a petrol generator)

3.8 L/100l is decent, that's around 74MPG even at 5.0 l/100km that's still 56 mpg

drive the car and stop worrying !!

 

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, Roy124 said:

When you present a clean engine to a mechanic he will see that it has been cared for.

That seems to me like cleaning your hotel room for the maid. I'm paying the mechanic to care for the engine.

(Though to be fair I usually tip hotel staff but not the garage. (Never meet the actual mechanic in fact.))

[inteli7]

On 2/7/2024 at 8:49 AM, Roy124 said:

@allanmcfish here are some clips from the web:

Steam cleaning a car engine is generally considered safe and effective as long as it is done properly. Steam cleaning can help remove dirt, grease, and other contaminants that may have accumulated on the engine over time. It can also help to identify any potential issues that may be hiding beneath the buildup.28 May 2020

Then:

 

Engine valeting is a specialised service and should be only done by experienced professionals.

We do engine valeting in the safest possible way. We spray the whole engine with special degreaser which is left to work for a few minutes.

Once degreaser has broken down most of the grease and dirt we then use a soft bristle brush and agitate all parts of the engine.

Engine bay and hood are then rinsed with low pressure and dried with soft towels.

All plastic covers are dressed with non-silicone dressing.

With the steam cleaner, you have to be careful with plastics. Too much of it can cause some staining, but it is still safer than pressure washing your whole engine bay.

Another method that I saw recently which seems to be really good is this: 

 

You will have have to use 2 tornadors and a compressor. Pretty expensive setup if you ask me but looks like you can get amazing results!

[Roy124]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:58 AM, MikeSh said:

That seems to me like cleaning your hotel room for the maid. I'm paying the mechanic to care for the engine.

I disagree.   You are paying your mechanic to do a very specific series of jobs, no more, no less. 

In Cyprus our filling station offered oil change, servicing, and valeting.   In UK, you want the engine really cleaned use a valeter, expensive but not as expensive as a garage oil monkey.

We do tidy our room being respectful of the maid's time.  It also shows you expect a properly cleaned room or cabin. 

[RickyC]

On 2/7/2024 at 12:46 PM, flash22 said:

if OP is in Italy, fuel quality is a major issue, try running the car on some premium fuel, the hybrids do not run like a standard petrol, they do idle high on first start and when charging (basically a petrol generator)

3.8 L/100l is decent, that's around 74MPG even at 5.0 l/100km that's still 56 mpg

drive the car and stop worrying !!

 

In Italy standard fuel is 95 RON E5.   I've seen E10 only on a Premium fuel. 

Even if some issue that involved EGR cooler could have been caused by bad fuel ( but nobody was able to show a proof of that ) premium fuels usually don't add any plus on HSD engines like can do on a sport car one.

[allanmcfish]

Hello everyone, sorry again for the late response..
 

On 2/7/2024 at 3:07 AM, MikeSh said:

In MK3 the ICE will always run above about 70kph regardless. It's how it is. (MK4 has a higher speed before ICE is obligated.)

That seems wrong. Except when stationary ice start and stop should be virtually undetectable by feel. I think there is something not right.

You need to tell the garage that it seems wrong - describe the symptoms - so they will actually check it. They should test drive after doing the service but better to give them a pointer before. If it's just a duff plug the service may fix it.

If you aren't going to service it yourself I wouldn't bother. If the garage can't see the engine for dirt they'll blast it with whatever so they can.

Just to clarify I wasn't implying that something is wrong because it stops at 70kph.
I'm just curious on why a big portion of the fuel economy comes in this situation.

Yes, I can say that it is pretty much detectable when it switches.
Got to drive the Auris yesterday and even with it having 350000+ km, blocked EGR once, hybrid Battery changed and not being taken extra care in the last years the engine switch is still undetectable as you describe.

I surely want to explain everything to the garage and I would very much like for them to drive it.
If only they would answer my email... I'll call them again next week. Service is in mid march anyway.
 

On 2/7/2024 at 10:20 AM, Roy124 said:

@hind true but we don't know where Allan is, or how the car has been used.  If in the south the conditions may have been dusty; in the North, he mentioned winter tyres, more similar to Northern Europe. 

If the previous owners drove with windows open a lot then could be a lot more dust.

 

On 2/7/2024 at 10:50 AM, hind said:

He mentioned Italy 🙂

I think that is referring to where in Italy I'm located 😝.

I'm in north Italy so the weather gets cold and we also have a lot of humidity here.
 

7 hours ago, inteli7 said:

With the steam cleaner, you have to be careful with plastics. Too much of it can cause some staining, but it is still safer than pressure washing your whole engine bay.

Another method that I saw recently which seems to be really good is this: 

 

You will have have to use 2 tornadors and a compressor. Pretty expensive setup if you ask me but looks like you can get amazing results!

 

4 hours ago, Roy124 said:

I disagree.   You are paying your mechanic to do a very specific series of jobs, no more, no less. 

In Cyprus our filling station offered oil change, servicing, and valeting.   In UK, you want the engine really cleaned use a valeter, expensive but not as expensive as a garage oil monkey.

We do tidy our room being respectful of the maid's time.  It also shows you expect a properly cleaned room or cabin. 

I can agree with you on this but I don't feel comfortable "messing" with the engine at the moment since, like I said, I never even changed the oil on a car before.
For sure in the near future I would like to become more familiar with these things and be able to do proper maintenance myself.
 

4 hours ago, RickyC said:

In Italy standard fuel is 95 RON E5.   I've seen E10 only on a Premium fuel. 

Even if some issue that involved EGR cooler could have been caused by bad fuel ( but nobody was able to show a proof of that ) premium fuels usually don't add any plus on HSD engines like can do on a sport car one.

That's the reason why I can't figure out if I have an EGR or not 🤣 on search results they only pop up articles about the supposed Italian fuel problem on the new models.


Anyway I would like to thank again everyone.


As far as the vibrations go: obviously they are still there but I'm starting to calm a little, knowing that in one way or the other I will make the garage to look at them.
Also I think that the fuel consumption is good from this initial observations so I'm a little less worried that it is something major.

But of course something else had to happen, right?
Since yesterday the car has started to make another noise/vibration.... 🙈

Fortunately/unfortunately it is not regular and I cannot find a way to reproduce it. When it starts it starts, and when it stop it stops.
I experienced it two times and after a couple of minutes max it stopped.
It is not regular, seems to be dependent on speed, direction, road etc.
You can hear it pretty well so this time my dad can't say nothing about it 😝
I heard it came from the front left. It doesn't feel like an engine vibration at all.
I cannot say for sure but it seems that it is some kind of bodywork that is vibrating.

Now that I think about it, at the front left bodywork / bumper there is a minor "hit" damage (don't know how to say it).
Maybe that's it. Maybe not.
Don't know what to do about it until I can reproduce it

I'm sorry if I'm being a PITA. I very much know that I'm an anxious person but a little help from the universe wouldn't hurt once in a while. 🙂

Thank you again everyone
 

[MikeSh]

2 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

I'm just curious on why a big portion of the fuel economy comes in this situation.

Most cars give best economy around there. Oversimplifying - it's the speed where you are making decent distance per litre of fuel but not so high speed that air resistance, etc, is creating a lot of drag.

[hind]

11 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

Since yesterday the car has started to make another noise/vibration.... 🙈

Fortunately/unfortunately it is not regular and I cannot find a way to reproduce it. When it starts it starts, and when it stop it stops.
I experienced it two times and after a couple of minutes max it stopped.

Got something like that in a different car, after harsh braking everything started to get vibrations from the engine. I expected it to be a failed engine mount (the rubber might be worn out or the oil filling might spill out) but miraculously a few hours later there was no sign of it 😐 skilled mechanic should be able to spot that easily or even change them just in case.