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waxoyl or hammerite


RHYSF00
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so i am unsure if im posting in the right topic. but this is a question i just thought about when it comes to protecting metal parts that is starting to look it age. what would be better to use hammerite paint or waxoyl?

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Can I ask why not to put waxoyl on rusty parts ?

Does it react with the rust to make it worse?

I ask this as I have mild surface rust under body, and have been asking round if anyone could wire brush the loose off and then waxoyl.

I have had a quote from one of the rust proof places that "fogs" the underside and looks like they do a proper job, but at £600.

Another local garage said that they can Shultz the underside, but I reckon that unless the rust was properly removed entirely,then this would just seal it in to carry on rusting under the coating.

I was thinking it would be better to remove the worst of it, and then the oil would stop it getting worse.

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Rust will always contain small amounts of water absorbed from the humidity in the air and Waxoyl has no rust converter agent in it. It is also not 100% water tight and 'breathes' slightly. So, if you put on Waxoyl it will allow the rust to continue to oxidise underneath.  Hence you need to make sure you remove as much as possible, ideally down to metal. Then you paint it. This will seal in the metal and prevent it from rusting. Then you can put underseal on top of the paint to protect it from chipping.

I have a prime example of the underseal / waxoyl issue in my garage in the form of the mk1 MR2. Previous owner did an incredibly dedicated attempt at stopping the rust and covered (slobbered on) absolutely everything before he put the car in storage. After 17 years being stood in storage, you can see rust creeping through the underseal creating small brown spots everywhere there was rust underneath.

I don't know what the garage you've had quotes from will do, but £600 sounds perfectly reasonable, even cheap, assuming they do a proper job. You are right though, you need to remove the rust. If you can't remove it completely, you need to use some kind of converter that stops it from rusting.

Regarding oil, my dad used to protect our old mini, by pouring used engine oil in all cavities during the winter. Not pretty, practical, or environmentally sound, but it worked. 

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5 minutes ago, APS said:

Rust will always contain small amounts of water absorbed from the humidity in the air and Waxoyl has no rust converter agent in it. It is also not 100% water tight and 'breathes' slightly. So, if you put on Waxoyl it will allow the rust to continue to oxidise underneath.  Hence you need to make sure you remove as much as possible, ideally down to metal. Then you paint it. This will seal in the metal and prevent it from rusting. Then you can put underseal on top of the paint to protect it from chipping.

I have a prime example of the underseal / waxoyl issue in my garage in the form of the mk1 MR2. Previous owner did an incredibly dedicated attempt at stopping the rust and covered (slobbered on) absolutely everything before he put the car in storage. After 17 years being stood in storage, you can see rust creeping through the underseal creating small brown spots everywhere there was rust underneath.

I don't know what the garage you've had quotes from will do, but £600 sounds perfectly reasonable, even cheap, assuming they do a proper job. You are right though, you need to remove the rust. If you can't remove it completely, you need to use some kind of converter that stops it from rusting.

Regarding oil, my dad used to protect our old mini, by pouring used engine oil in all cavities during the winter. Not pretty, practical, or environmentally sound, but it worked. 

just read this perfectly worded and explained i shall say. not everyone explaisn things. 
to my point. so it best to use hammerite paint frist. would you spray or brush paint it??
and with Waxoyl. i noticed they different sorts from hammerite

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1 minute ago, Bper said:

This intrigues me, many car detailing videos show them power washing the underside of the car. Now that seems a good idea but whilst the water will drip off what effect does that have on starting or encouraging rust?

 

 

that is a good point. i wash my underside once a month to remove dirt and salt as i travel around a bit and have a main river nearby. i am actually wanting to restore my corolla at some point. but nothing remvoing the strachs so it needs a respary

 

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The £600 quote (Inc vat) was from rust busters at Spalding, here in Lincolnshire.

Sorry I don't know how to put links on through this phone, but if you Google the above it brings it up.

Flash 22 linked it for me on a previous thread when I was asking about this.

So thank you APS for such a clear description of the problem and cure.🙂

If you have time, maybe you could look at the process from rust busters and give me your opinion on it.

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6 minutes ago, flash22 said:

It depends on the brand most are acid/alkyl, it takes away the oxygen breaking the rust reaction cycle, have a look on youtube

so which would be better the acid or alkyl one? thinking of getting hammertie to stop rust then use a black paint then clear waxoyl on top. got some heavy ruse on back wheel areas

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3 minutes ago, flash22 said:

Hammerite will just trap the rust tbh

i understand that with the paint. but the rust remover gel really?
https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/rust-removal-and-treatment/hammerite-rust-remover-gel-100ml-728550.html

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I used to use a product called Kur rust.  It was a thick product, painted on and then removed.  Cured rust was then black.  If rust spots remained visible reapply. 

I then applied a zinc paint.  Once that was cured I would undercoat, top coat and then underseal. 

Waxoyl was one product I would apply but another not mentioned is Supertrol.  This is ideal for its creeping action.  It is ideal for getting into seams and box sections. 

It is much lighter than Waxoyl and a little heavier that WD40. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

I used to use a product called Kur rust.  It was a thick product, painted on and then removed.  Cured rust was then black.  If rust spots remained visible reapply. 

I then applied a zinc paint.  Once that was cured I would undercoat, top coat and then underseal. 

Waxoyl was one product I would apply but another not mentioned is Supertrol.  This is ideal for its creeping action.  It is ideal for getting into seams and box sections. 

It is much lighter than Waxoyl and a little heavier that WD40. 

 

like this? https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/rust-removal-and-treatment/hammerite-kurust-90ml-412478.html
 

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RHYS, that's it.  It says no undercoat.  It is many years since I used anything so no doubt different today. 

I also used to  use a Bill Gunson catholitic cure which was ideal on stone chips.  You connected a cable to the Battery positive, dipped the brush on the end of the cable in an acid, and applied the acid tip to the rust. 

The electrolytic action would restore the metal - magic. 

Supertrol is still around too:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Supertrol-ACT1947-Anti-Rust-Fluid/dp/B0043ZWCN6/ref=asc_df_B0043ZWCN6/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310513207083&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=111880165420931278&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046221&hvtargid=pla-697303136605&psc=1

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Corroless is industrial paint that includes a converter and inhibitor. It is used on things like bridges and large constructions. They have now started selling and adapted it for the automotive market. Bee's knees in a tin! https://www.arc-rite.co.uk/paints/specialist-paints/corroless-rust-control

 

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I've also used POR15. Like Corroless, it is also a two layer product. It's also expensive and it is really important that you prepare the surface properly. Once that's done it is really good. You can buy it from Frosts.

One problem is that the paint is so strong that if you get it around the edge of the lid on the tin you can never open it again. I've had a tin that I had to open using a tin opener. When the top got stuck I had to turn it upside down and open with a tin opener. Later, even the bottom got stuck. Then I had to hack a hole in the bottom. Don't buy too big a tin. You can't store it for long.

For the record - I am in no way affiliated with or promoting these products. I'm just a punter sharing my experiences.

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2 hours ago, Bper said:

This intrigues me, many car detailing videos show them power washing the underside of the car. Now that seems a good idea but whilst the water will drip off what effect does that have on starting or encouraging rust?

 

 

Well, yes, washing the car will get it wet and encourage corrosion. However, a clean car dries quickly again. Dirt under the car will sit attached to components and in nooks and cavities and hold moisture and therefore prolong and exacerbate any corrosion whenever it gets whet. That's why you want to clean it off. 

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2 hours ago, RHYSF00 said:

just read this perfectly worded and explained i shall say. not everyone explaisn things. 
to my point. so it best to use hammerite paint frist. would you spray or brush paint it??
and with Waxoyl. i noticed they different sorts from hammerite

Brush it on. It is less messy and you can make sure you get to all areas, and you can better control how thick a layer you put on each area.

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On 9/22/2022 at 6:12 PM, APS said:

Brush it on. It is less messy and you can make sure you get to all areas, and you can better control how thick a layer you put on each area.

sorry for the ping. so just seen a video on waxoyl being used. but i seen two different types of products, standard waxoyl and underbody seal with added waxoyl.

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