R4P... Front washer nozzles not working?

[Cyker]

That's a little creepy - It looks like my car is starting to turn the same colour as yours and yours is starting to turn the same colour as mine!!  

 

[Nick72]

On 12/14/2022 at 10:12 AM, nlee said:

Would have thought these would have frozen. Mine have been frozen for days. With the nozzles being so fine, the tiniest amount of liquid is contained within the nozzle and does freeze despite the washer fluid being rated to well below zero (the rating is probably for a given volume of fluid). My last car had heated nozzles but they still froze occasionally using neat fluid, probably fluid freezes on the outside of the nozzle, or it is frozen atmospheric moisture on the outside. It never froze in the reservoir or pipes.

Perhaps apply a little bit of warmth to the nozzles and see if it works after?

If the pool of liquid is washer fluid, maybe it's because of the pressure created in the lines by activating the pump against a closed head and forcing it out of the joints instead.

Could be. Checking out on Saturday. Pretending it is 1984 again. 🤣

[Nick72]

On 12/14/2022 at 10:20 AM, NASY said:

Nick, thanks for the gen on heat, makes it more depressingly poor performance. Yes it was diluted as it said on the tin to do, mistake I think.

I've just ordered some different low temp fluid. Concentrated rather than ready mixed. Once I suss out what has gone wrong I'll drain it and put in the concentrated fluid without diluting. Ethanol doesn't freeze until minus 100C or so from memory so I may just put vodka in it. 

[Rhymes with Paris]

I can't remember which car it was, but in the 80s, didn't someone have the bright idea to position the washer bottle above the exhaust manifold, and route the tubes where there was heat from the engine ?

It's so cold here, I had to hit the wheelie bin lid with a lump hammer the other day in order to open it, and drop this week's champagne bottles and empty caviar tins in.

I did say before,old people are obsessed with bins, it's all we talk about at the therapy group for grumpy old men with bin focused dementia.

[NASY]

Paul if your caviar is coming in tins then change your supplier.

[DerekHa]

I remember before the eigthies, well in the 70's, my 850 Mini had the washer bottle sited on the bulkhead behind the engine and closish to the exhaust manifold. Don't recall the bottle freezing up, apart from overnight,  although the nozzles would. I was a skinflint back then and made my own screen wash using meths, and fairy liquid. Worked alright for a time but then found there was globs of gel starting to form in the bottom of the bottle which helped clog the washer nozzles. ☹️ So stopped using that concoction!

Oh and the washer bottle was tiny, about a litre in there I think.

[Rhymes with Paris]

30 minutes ago, DerekHa said:

I remember before the eigthies, well in the 70's, my 850 Mini had the washer bottle sited on the bulkhead behind the engine and closish to the exhaust manifold. Don't recall the bottle freezing up, apart from overnight,  although the nozzles would. I was a skinflint back then and made my own screen wash using meths, and fairy liquid. Worked alright for a time but then found there was globs of gel starting to form in the bottom of the bottle which helped clog the washer nozzles. ☹️ So stopped using that concoction!

Oh and the washer bottle was tiny, about a litre in there I think.

Yep fairy liquid sure did gel and clog the nozzles.

I don't think I  stumbled upon proper screenwash until I moved down south, and got educated about the wider world, and all of it's wonders.

[ernieb]

11 hours ago, Nick72 said:

I've just ordered some different low temp fluid. Concentrated rather than ready mixed. Once I suss out what has gone wrong I'll drain it and put in the concentrated fluid without diluting. Ethanol doesn't freeze until minus 100C or so from memory so I may just put vodka in it. 

Nah, just drink the Vodka and you'll not worry about it! 😇

[Rav Rob]

Looks like a trip to the dealer for a repair, God know when I will get a booking, the one headlight washer has completely broke. It was stuck out (frozen fluid inside the cylinder) and I had to leave the car in a public car park. I suspect some 'helpful' person tried to push it back in and killed it.

Tried to look at it but the frame of the unit is broken. (tiny plastic retaining tabs).

Interesting how they work, a spring keeps it pulled in, its basically a little cylinder with the washer head on a piston. The hydraulic pressure from the washer pump pushes the piston out and at the end of its travel a port in the cylinder lets the wash fluid vent out the jet onto the light. Once the pump stops the pressure, the spring pulls it back.

[Mike2222]

I too have had frozen washers this week. I had been using Aldi's offering, which was supposedly good to either - 5 or - 8°C, but froze early in the week around - 1 or - 2.

 

In years past I've gone with prestone extreme concentrate and from memory was reliably good for cleaning and deicing, but fairly pricey and the concentrate version doesn't seem to be all that well stocked. 'ready mix' can be had from screwfix/toolstation etc (yellow colour; -10°C), but the concentrate (also yellow, but - 18°C) seems to be an online only job. There's also a blue version which is even lower temp-rated, but I haven't found it in a few years. 

 

Last week I got a few bottles of "Demon Chill" from wickes, says down to - 20°C, and appears OK so far. Still on the pricey end when you have to use it neat tho! 

[ernieb]

Costco: Preston’s (blue diluted version) is what I’ve used for many years without issues,

[Mike2222]

Yes, on reflection that's what I'm thinking of, but it's been a few years since I've been a Costco shopper. Does it say "all seasons" or something similar, but if used neat will be good to some silly minus number? 

[Rosgoe]

On 12/15/2022 at 5:59 PM, Cyker said:

Add me to the count of people with frozen washer jets today!

My poor car has so much salt on it it looks like it's white on one side!  

 

 

And me I think that the front washer jets are subject to more wind chill than the rear ones. I have in the past on previous cars put a load of meths in the washer bottle along with the washer fluid that seemed to help.

shame Toyota don’t put heated washer jets in like ford a friend has got a top of the range fiesta and that has got heated washer jets and heated steering wheel cmon Toyota!! We pay enough.

[Cyker]

I feel it's just an oversight as I've never had this problem in a Toyota before, but they've all been ICE cars so the engine would have thawed the lines, but the hybrids run much cooler! When the engine's up to temp and had a chance to warm the lines they'd probably work, but the problem, esp. if asking for heat, is the HVAC sucks all the heat out of the engine quite quickly so the lines can freeze.

[ernieb]

1 hour ago, Mike2222 said:

Yes, on reflection that's what I'm thinking of, but it's been a few years since I've been a Costco shopper. Does it say "all seasons" or something similar, but if used neat will be good to some silly minus number? 

It does, but it’s still cold enough for me not to want to venture into the garage to 👀 

[Hayzee]

3 hours ago, Rosgoe said:

And me I think that the front washer jets are subject to more wind chill

My front washers have continued to work but not the rear 🙁

[Nick72]

Been under the car this weekend. No problems with any pipework. All connectors in place. However, there is a small pool of screen wash under the car but no obvious source. Suspect there was some loss from somewhere in the chain from my repeated attempts to run the motor to get it to squirt out. All working now so clearly an issue with freezing and just not warming up from the engine which is probably too thermally efficient for its own good.

Going to drain it all this week and put some concentrated even lower temperature suitable wash fluid in it. Can't rely on the engine and routing of the wash fluid to defrost during driving. As I say it was +1C. Wind chill not a factor as that is a factor for humans (a warmer body than the outside static air temperature subject to forced convection). Design error I think. Wonder how our Canadian friends or upstate NY etc get on since folks are driving their Prime's around and it is -20C. 

 

 

[ernieb]

31 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

…… Wonder how our Canadian friends or upstate NY etc get on since folks are driving their Prime's around and it is -20C. 

 

 

I think they must have undiluted screen wash products that are good for well below -30oC. It maybe they also get, or have modified, the washer nozzles to be heated?

[philip42h]

36 minutes ago, ernieb said:

1 hour ago, Nick72 said:

…… Wonder how our Canadian friends or upstate NY etc get on since folks are driving their Prime's around and it is -20C. 

I think they must have undiluted screen wash products that are good for well below -30oC. It maybe they also get, or have modified, the washer nozzles to be heated?

They sent me to Canada on business one January - I'd probably upset someone - and I distinctly remember that man on the radio saying "the temperature is currently -16 with and expected high today of -13" (degrees C) and that was one of the warmer days.

Anyhow, I never had any problems with ice on the hire car - no liquid water to freeze at those temperatures. The air was totally dry. Occasionally needed to brush the snow off but otherwise no water, no salt, no problem ...

[DerekHa]

On 12/14/2022 at 2:40 PM, DerekHa said:

Hi Rob,

Read your post and your comment about the old Lidl washer fluid. I have been using their main competitors, Aldi, screen wash for quite a few years now. Never had that freeze up on me though confess to not having checked what temperature it's rated down to. Currently have this concentrated in my own Citigo and my partners C1 and haven't had any problems with it freezing during this cold snap. It's not that expensive from what I recall around £2 or £3 I think and it's ready to use so no diluting. Only problem is they only have it in a couple of times a year.

 

Well I have to admit that my suggestion on Aldi's screen wash didn't hold up over the last few really cold nights!!

Found myself among the throngs of drivers with frozen nozzles, lines and the bottle itself, couldn't hear the little motor humming away even. Some hot water on the washer nozzles and lines etc helped resume normal service for a while.

Then on Friday the nozzles were spluttering and that tiny motor noiser, so running out of screen wash! Hunted around and the best I could find readily available at a reasonable price was Halfords own ready to use screen wash "Berry Scented" good down to -10C for £6.49.

Of course its "sods law", bought it yesterday and about to put it in today but now the weather has broken and the temperture is rising rapidly. Ah well, at least I should be ready if the mercury plummets again in the next  few months.

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/motoring-products/halfords--10-ready-mixed-screenwash-5l---berry-611727.html

If you need something down to a much lower -20c then Halfords also have this but seems they are now running out of stock!

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/screenwash/halfords--20-ready-mixed-screenwash-5l---citrus-611784.html

Stopped using Halfords some years ago as thought they had become more expensive but perhaps they've dropped prices somewhat.

Edited December 18, 2022 by DerekHa

[Hayzee]

Does anyone know the capacity of the screen wash reservoir?

[Rav Rob]

6 hours ago, DerekHa said:

Well I have to admit that my suggestion on Aldi's screen wash didn't hold up over the last few really cold nights!!

Found myself among the throngs of drivers with frozen nozzles, lines and the bottle itself, couldn't hear the little motor humming away even. Some hot water on the washer nozzles and lines etc helped resume normal service for a while.

Then on Friday the nozzles were spluttering and that tiny motor noiser, so running out of screen wash! Hunted around and the best I could find readily available at a reasonable price was Halfords own ready to use screen wash "Berry Scented" good down to -10C for £6.49.

Of course its "sods law", bought it yesterday and about to put it in today but now the weather has broken and the temperture is rising rapidly. Ah well, at least I should be ready if the mercury plummets again in the next  few months.

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/motoring-products/halfords--10-ready-mixed-screenwash-5l---berry-611727.html

If you need something down to a much lower -20c then Halfords also have this but seems they are now running out of stock!

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/screenwash/halfords--20-ready-mixed-screenwash-5l---citrus-611784.html

Stopped using Halfords some years ago as thought they had become more expensive but perhaps they've dropped prices somewhat.

Same here!!! I drained mine and filled with £6.49 Prestone Max from Toolstation and now its warmed up!  will be using short minimal bursts!!

[Rav Rob]

4 hours ago, Hayzee said:

Does anyone know the capacity of the screen wash reservoir?

I deliberately ran mine dry to refill with better fluid, too the best part of a 5L bottle, a little left over.

[Nick72]

9 hours ago, ernieb said:

I think they must have undiluted screen wash products that are good for well below -30oC. It maybe they also get, or have modified, the washer nozzles to be heated?

I'd pay for that for sure. Temperature extremes the new norm. Wasn't it 16C on NY day this year? I recall -15C about 12 or 15 years ago up north because the house we lived in the water mains froze. It was part of the pipe in the cavity wall. I had to get a hair dryer on it followed by a 200W water proof heater pipe I put in there for the week to keep it above freezing.

[Nick72]

8 hours ago, philip42h said:

They sent me to Canada on business one January - I'd probably upset someone - and I distinctly remember that man on the radio saying "the temperature is currently -16 with and expected high today of -13" (degrees C) and that was one of the warmer days.

Anyhow, I never had any problems with ice on the hire car - no liquid water to freeze at those temperatures. The air was totally dry. Occasionally needed to brush the snow off but otherwise no water, no salt, no problem ...

Can relate. Was in Newfoundland one winter on business. St John's. That was cold. Don't recall temperature. Hiked up signal hill where Marconi received or transmitted his radio signal. They had no problems with the snow and ice. 

Fortunately St John's has one of the highest density of bars anywhere in the world. So I don't recall much. 🤣