12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Max_Headroom]

Spotted this on Facebook -  

Toyota admit there is a problem with the 12v Battery and offer an enhanced replacement if you agree not to tell anyone you have had one fitted, what a disgrace and i hope Toyota get taken to court over this. 

Toyota Yaris Owners

David Mynors  ·   · 

 

THIS IS A MUST READ FOR ANYONE THAT HAS HAD PROBLEMS WITH A SELF CHARGING YARIS CROSS 12 VOLT Battery

 

We have been in dispute with Jemca Bracknell and Toyota as regards a new Yaris Cross we purchased. We have had Battery problems and are of the opinion that the car is not fit for purpose and in addition we were mis-sold in view of our low mileage requirements.

We have received a buyback offer which we feel is too low. Below is an extract from an email received from Jemca and Toyota. We have been advised that Toyota have introduced an "ENHANCED" battery in an effort to resolve the problems that many are having. There is an offer on the table to fit the enhanced battery to our car, free of charge! You will note the conditions as set out in the email and in particular the replacement battery must be confidential and we must not tell any third parties. From our experience that is not how we would expect a major retailer and manufacturer to conduct business. This smells of sharp practice and clearly they don't want you to know!!!

 

EMAIL FROM JEMCA/TOYOTA

"We are satisfied that our buyback offer is more than reasonable in the circumstances, and we are therefore not prepared to increase it. However, we are still willing for our goodwill offer as per the terms set out in my email dated 26th March to remain available for acceptance until 4pm on 28th March.

Alternatively, we offer as a goodwill gesture to fit the enhanced battery at no cost to you on the basis that you keep the vehicle. This offer is on the basis of no admission of liability and in full and final settlement of the issues you have raised in respect of the vehicle.

Furthermore, this offer is subject to the terms of settlement and all discussions, negotiations and correspondence concerning the dispute being kept confidential and not referred to any third party whatsoever save as may be required by law."

We would recommend that anybody that has experienced battery issues insist on a replacement with the enhanced battery. Next winter will be the acid test for the new battery. Fingers crossed for you all.

[Parts-King]

A confidential offer put on BookFace, you couldn't make it up 🙄🙄

[Max_Headroom]

8 minutes ago, Parts-King said:

A confidential offer put on BookFace, you couldn't make it up 🙄🙄

Why should the customer  keep quiet?

I am glad the customer decided to expose Toyota for trying to keep the 12v Battery problem quiet instead of  admitting there is a problem and doing the decent thing by replacing all Hybrid batteries with the enhanced Battery.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Presumably as the 'confidential' offer has been posted on social media, and is no longer confidential, the offer was no longer valid. As always, the contract and negotiations/offer are between the customer and the dealer, so excludes the manufacturer. 

One side of the story only.

[Max_Headroom]

The main point for me  is the dealer has admitted they can fit an enhanced Battery if customers do not drive often to solve the now well documented flat Battery problem i wonder how many customers like the ones in this thread who have complained have been offered the same.

Quote

Alternatively, we offer as a goodwill gesture to fit the enhanced battery at no cost to you 

 

[hind]

Dealer doesn't want to pay for the manufacturer issue and that's understandable. They have to strictly follow service procedures to determine if the part should be replaced under warranty (and per manufacturer expense). If they don't, they won't get the refund for it.

[Cyker]

This all because they are trying to make it right without making themselves vulnerable to attack, hence all the disclaimers of guilt etc.

One of the reasons a lot of businesses tend to be so cagey is they are subject to the same "No good deed goes unpunished" effect many of us have no doubt experienced...!

[Max_Headroom]

On 4/3/2024 at 4:56 PM, hind said:

Dealer doesn't want to pay for the manufacturer issue and that's understandable.

Lets get back to the JEMCA/TOYOTA customers complaint - 

Dealers are selling cars to customers knowing full well if they dont drive the car regularly the 12v Battery is going to let them down this is a shoddy practice and it needs to be exposed i couldn't care less if it is the manufacturer of the battery  that is at fault Toyota  should have sorted this as soon as it became an issue instead of carrying on using these batteries in all hybrids,  why didn't they switch to the "enhanced" Battery as soon as it became obvious there was a problem?

[anchorman]

15 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

 

Lets get back to the JEMCA/TOYOTA customers complaint - 

Dealers are selling cars to customers knowing full well if they dont drive the car regularly the 12v battery is going to let them down this is a shoddy practice and it needs to be exposed i couldn't care less if it is the manufacturer of the battery  that is at fault Toyota  should have sorted this as soon as it became an issue instead of carrying on using these batteries in all hybrids,  why didn't they switch to the "enhanced" battery as soon as it became obvious there was a problem?

It’s not as easy as that.  You can’t just switch when you are in a contractual agreement with a manufacturer and you can’t just switch on an alternative supplier, it needs to be planned.  Furthermore, it isn’t a Jemca Toyota issue, it’s a Jemca issue, the dealer that sold the car.  Typical FB nonsense where s disgruntled owner can’t get his own way and reacts by making it an official announcement when as always the case, the dealer cannot nor will not comment and remain professional.  What we don’t know is what has gone on between them or the condition of the vehicle.  A lot of people treat a vehicle as a tool and rub them up the curb, smoke, vape, trash, never clean them and they’ll expect to get what they’ve paid.  We can’t see any of that and neither can the FB warriors.  The dealer will offer what the car is worth after it’s been repaired.  We know the procedure for changing a Battery, they need it day 1 for charging and day 2 for testing and that’s why I say, for £70-80, just change it and save yourself some hassle.  Personally, I completely ignore that so called FB announcement, if it’s a legitimate case, it’ll turn up on a more reliable platform and I applaud Jemca for their professionalism.  

[Countryside]

17 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

 

Lets get back to the JEMCA/TOYOTA customers complaint - 

Dealers are selling cars to customers knowing full well if they dont drive the car regularly the 12v battery is going to let them down this is a shoddy practice and it needs to be exposed i couldn't care less if it is the manufacturer of the battery  that is at fault Toyota  should have sorted this as soon as it became an issue instead of carrying on using these batteries in all hybrids,  why didn't they switch to the "enhanced" battery as soon as it became obvious there was a problem?

well said Don 

[FROSTYBALLS]

At the end of the day, Facebook posts are for the members of that particular forum, and aren't relevant to this Club.

[Max_Headroom]

5 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

At the end of the day, Facebook posts are for the members of that particular forum, and aren't relevant to this Club.

I think that's  very short sighted its Toyota discussion what does it matter where its posted? 

Just to clarify if someone reads something negative about Toyota cars on the internet they cannot post it here?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Just now, Max_Headroom said:

Just to clarify if someone reads something negative about Toyota cars on the internet they cannot post it here?

Obviously that isn't the case.

Copying posts verbatim from other forums, however, isn't relevant to this Club.

Please move on !

[hind]

21 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

they have an enhanced battery that will sort this problem

They had it for a long time already, manufactured by Yuasa, and they are very aware about the issue. The thing is, they have contracted delivery from Mutlu and for financial reasons they don't want to change it as they probably saved a lot by using cheaper batteries. That's one thing.

The second thing is that dealership is also aware about this but they don't want to change the Battery for free because that's their cost, despite the producer fault. That's why dealerships in Poland wrote to Toyota Europe to change the 12V Battery testing procedure so they can replace the faulty batteries under car warranty. Of course they still have to use official OEM parts which is once again, Mutlu. That is the only thing they can change apart from pressing on the Toyota Europe to change the Battery supplier, but as we can see with MY24 models rolling out, they are still using Mutlus.

So for extra annoyed customers the dealership offers a good will replacement action, for which they pay from their own pocket, assuming that happy customer would return once more. That is why they don't want this to be published. This can cost the dealership a lot of money despite the fact that they didn't do anything wrong (apart from lying to the customers who initially told them about short mileages etc but that's a different story).

If anything has to change (global recall or whatever), dealerships has to stop selling these cars - because customers would pick the different brand, model or just skip 4.th generation of Yaris or YC. 

But this doesn't happen. 

Toyota last year has sold in Poland more than 26000 Yaris and Yaris Cross cars, making this #1 popular model (if you group them, when separated, Yaris is on 3rd place with 13459 sales and Yaris Cross is on 4th place with 13402 sales). You know what that means? Yes, people still buy these cars. And they still would buy them. As long as they would buy them, Toyota would do absolutely nothing about the battery because apparently nobody really cares.

[Max_Headroom]

20 hours ago, hind said:

You know what that means? Yes, people still buy these cars. And they still would buy them. As long as they would buy them, Toyota would do absolutely nothing about the battery because apparently nobody really cares.

Its not that nobody really cares its that they are unaware of this problem when they buy the car, if the sales man/woman pointed out to potential buyers that leaving the car on the drive for days on end would most likely end in a breakdown how many sales do you think they would have lost?

[hind]

10 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

for days

As you already saw among answers in your topic 

leaving a car for a week does no harm. And as you also probably noticed, most of the drivers use the car daily or almost daily. In this scenario even Mutlu (in working condition, I'm not talking about half-dead ones) is enough to keep the car running.  

[Parts-King]

The trouble with forums is that you would think this affects every car, I can tell you it doesn't, it mainly affects people doing very low mileage. I have a lady who comes in every single day to see us, then she goes to a garden centre locally and then home, probably does 10 mile a day at most. She has never had an issue, we have very many more customers like that. The issue is being addressed by Toyota, it maybe addressed by a service campaign, it won't be by recall as it is not a safety issue. I don't have any other specific information on the current situation

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, hind said:

leaving a car for a week does no harm. And as you also probably noticed, most of the drivers use the car daily or almost daily. In this scenario even Mutlu (in working condition, I'm not talking about half-dead ones) is enough to keep the car running.  

If there was no problem for customers who rarely drive leaving the car for a few days at a time there wouldn't be a 95 page thread about it here!

Halfords also wouldn't have sold so many  booster packs, smart trickle chargers and solar charging panels.

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, Parts-King said:

The trouble with forums is that you would think this affects every car,

Only if you dont actually read the threads!

 

Quote

it mainly affects people doing very low mileage.

The guy in the FB post was one of the ones who like many in this 95 page thread doesn't drive often enough to keep the 12v Battery topped up obviously if you drive regularly the Battery will be charged so you will have no issue.

[Graham47]

1 minute ago, Max_Headroom said:

The guy in the FB post was one of the ones who like many in this 95 page thread doesn't drive often enough to keep the 12v battery topped up obviously if you drive regularly the battery will be charged so you will have no issue.

That’s an assumption on your part.  Nowhere in his post does he mention his driving….only that he’s had problems with the Battery and wants to reject the car.

[Max_Headroom]

18 hours ago, Graham47 said:

That’s an assumption on your part.  Nowhere in his post does he mention his driving….only that he’s had problems with the battery and wants to reject the car.

He says -  we have had Battery problems and the dealer has offered to fit an "Enhanced battery" which should sort the problem, the title is also a bit of a giveaway "This is a must read for anyone that has had problems with a self charging Yaris Cross 12 volt battery"   now i might be putting 2 + 2 together and coming up with 6 but i think most of us will assume its the same problem all the members who have posted here are also having why else would they offer an "enhanced battery" option along  with a gagging order? 

[Cyker]

I do agree it could have been handled better, but it definitely doesn't affect every owner, and I think more of us haven't had 12v problems than have; Mine's been fine and it's nearly 3 years old. I've never trickle-charged it, and it has been left for weeks during a lot of the school holidays when work is light, and one time was left all day with the side lights on!

Hopefully it's water under the bridge now as, if my theory about it being due to pallets of them being left untended over covid, holds any truth, then the problem should be almost gone with the newer vehicles as fresh batteries are going straight into new cars instead of half-dead ones.

[Graham47]

11 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

now i might be putting 2 + 2 together and coming up with 6 but i think we all know its the same problem

Do WE ? Or do you mean “I DO” !

You certainly cannot say with any certainty.

[Max_Headroom]

11 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I do agree it could have been handled better, but it definitely doesn't affect every owner, and I think more of us haven't had 12v problems than have; Mine's been fine and it's nearly 3 years old. I've never trickle-charged it, and it has been left for weeks during a lot of the school holidays when work is light, and one time was left all day with the side lights on!

I agree Cyker it definitely could have been handled better i also agree with you about the amount of Yaris X owners not having issues being more than those who are,  Covid was the reason this whole issue surfaced as all most of us obeyed the rules and stayed at home i bet thousands of rarely used ICE cars failed to start weeks after being stood but obviously the small 12v didn't cope well with the long periods of no charge and here we are years later, it will not put me off buying an X though i definitely will keep a fully charged booster in the glove box "just in case" belt and braces and all that  😉

[Cyker]

Oh that reminds me I better check the charge on the Noco in mine...