Air Conditioning Servicing on 2 year old vehicle

[Andrew56]

Do members of this forum get their car air conditioning serviced?

During my 2 year service on my Yaris Design, I was offered this service for an additional £90, plus another £20 for a "sanity system clean" (and another £20 for fuel treatment!).  I was told this was recommended every 2 years by Toyota - but I  can find nothing in writing to back up this asertion.  I politely declined - and pointed out I had asked prior to the service if any extras which could be forseen would be presented to me on day.  I was told no, Toyota carefully list in their schedule all that is needed.

I did not press the point and obtain further details, but it has made me wonder what this service could really entail.  What could gradually degrade and likely need attention on a 2 year old vehicle, unless it could be loss of gas, which I guess is unlikely to be significant at this stage.  To give context I am unaware of any problems.

Any comments....

[bathtub tom]

9 minutes ago, Andrew56 said:

 but it has made me wonder what this service could really entail.

Relieving you of your hard earned. I've had two A/C services, done at an independant for a fraction of the price of a main dealer.

1. On a nine-year-old Nissan. Gas was 30% depleted. Made no difference.

2. On my current gen 3 Yaris. Made no difference, A/C is carp.

[CPN]

22 minutes ago, bathtub tom said:

2. On my current gen 3 Yaris. Made no difference, A/C is carp.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement don't you think?

I have had two Mk3 Yarises and I am on my 2nd Mk4 (all top of the range with auto climate control). The climate control on all of them was/is excellent as long as it is adjusted correctly.

Set and forget to 21°C, a/c on permanently and make sure external air is on. Cools well in the Summer and heats well in the Winter. Never fogs up inside. Can't do better than that.

[Hadrian1]

Air-con shouldn't need servicing after only two years.

The sanitizing the system scam is used by a lot of dealers. The last time I took

my car in for a service, I told them not to bother calling me to ask if I wanted it done.

You need to use your air-con all the year round, to avoid seals drying out.

[forkingabout]

Had this upselling at the first year service & again at the second year service.

Before its third year service Ill get my mechanic mate to check / clean & top up the system as they have the necessary kit plus training for doing hybrids & EV air conditioning systems - then ill see if the dealer try's to upsell again. 

My air con is on all the time - learnt that years ago from the now retired A/C specialists in the town ( they used to get the vehicles with A/C & cooling problems the main dealers couldn't fix ) 

[Sharnie70]

1 hour ago, CPN said:

Set and forget to 21°C, a/c on permanently and make sure external air is on. Cools well in the Summer and heats well in the Winter. Never fogs up inside. Can't do better than that.

Does the a/c on permanently drain the Battery?

[FROSTYBALLS]

We've had air con in our cars since 1998 (14 new cars in that period) and needed a service/regas on one car at 4 years old when it seemed the air was not as cold as it should have been.

We have the air con on all the time - in winter the dehumidified air helps demist the car.

So air con service not needed unless there is something wrong. 

Fuel treatment not needed.

An aerosol can of air con sanitizer/freshener can be bought from Amazon, Halfords, etc, from around £5-12 if desired, and simple to use yourself.

[FROSTYBALLS]

4 minutes ago, Sharnie70 said:

Does the a/c on permanently drain the battery?

Not in normal use.

[Hadrian1]

29 minutes ago, Sharnie70 said:

Does the a/c on permanently drain the battery?

As Frosty says, not in normal use when the engine is running.

It used to be said that having air-con running made the car less fuel efficient.

I don't think it does, no more than driving with a window open.  Although saying that, some of the old Volvos had a device which increased the engine revs when the air-con was running and the car was stationary.

[TonyHSD]

Two years for AC regas it’s not necessary. Any sanitising on ac system is actually worse than if you don’t sanitised at all.

Very important is to change the cabin filter every 10k miles or 12 months and not as recommended longer intervals.

Also for those who doesn’t like ac in car its not necessary to run it just to keep everything working. This is simply a myth. 

Best practices is to keep the hvac system in auto mode with ac ON all the time if you are ok with in car air conditioning. Set and forget works great. 

For Toyota hybrids it is crucial to use heating in winter and ac cooling in summer to maintain properly hybrid Battery temperature. 
Fuel additives also no need on two years old car, unless you drove crazy high miles and do use supermarket fuels which aren’t a good thing.

To sum up the dealer in question simply tried to up sell extras. 

[SDR]

You don't get something for nothing (unless you're a thief), and that applies to energy as much as anything else.

Aircon compressors consume energy in order to run.   Period.   It doesn't matter whether the compressor is belt-driven, as is usual on non-hybrids (which creates drag on the engine thereby using fuel), or electrically driven as on hybrids.   The electricity is either generated by the ICE or comes from regeneration (which is 'free' but, if used by the a/c compressor, it is not available for the electric motor).   However the system works, it uses energy and ultimately impacts fuel consumption. 

Modern car aircon systems are more efficient than they used to be but they still use energy.

One way to reduce the energy consumption is to use the recirculation feature on the HVAC system.   Particularly if the ambient temperature is high.   This because the system doesn't need to work as hard to keep already cooled air cool compared with cooling air from outside the car which is much warmer (so it needs less energy).  This advice is actually in the manual (for my Corolla, but same logic applies generally).

It is certainly true that the system needs to be used regularly to keep the seals lubricated;   I've heard of compressors actually seizing on cars where the system hasn't been used for months over winter.   Whether it needs to be on all the time is a matter of opinion.    I run mine for a while every week but not all the time when I don't actually need it.   Been doing this for years, never had a problem, never had an aircon service or even a gas top up. 

A tip that is often given, and which I follow, is to turn the aircon off a few minutes before the end of a journey (with recirculation off).   The purpose is to allow the condenser and pipework to return to ambient temperature before you switch off (and the fan stops).   If you switch off when the system is still cold you typically get condensation inside the condenser and pipework (which is why you sometimes get a puddle of water under the car).   This has two potential unwanted consequences.   The first is corrosion in the condenser (they aren't cheap).   The second is build up of bacteria which is not only unhealthy but also smells.    I believe that some cars now have a 'smart' HVAC system that keeps the fan running for a while but I don't remember seeing anything in my manual to suggest that it is fitted to my car.   I've been following this tip for years.  Never needed sanitiser because it doesn't smell. 

[anchorman]

I agree that older systems needed to be run to avoid seal leakage and sticking but not so much these days.  However, that said I am an advocate of leaving it permanently switched on.  I never ever get steamed up windows and the effect on fuel consumption is negligible.  

[TonyHSD]

Yes AC in hybrids does drain the hybrid Battery and make engine kick in more often, however as mentioned the overall mpg it’s not significantly reduced,  2-3mpg on average . 

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Two years for AC regas it’s not necessary.

Assuming the system is not leaking. If it needs a regas at 2 years then it probably has a problem.

1 hour ago, SDR said:

However the system works, it uses energy and ultimately impacts fuel consumption.

Absolutely. But opening windows with it off will still consume more energy.

(There were a few tests done by 'people' (eg. Mythbusters?) to test this a few years back, but I honestly can't remember any of the take-aways. I suspect it was all a bit inconclusive.)

1 hour ago, SDR said:

The second is build up of bacteria which is not only unhealthy but also smells.

Which happens all the time the system is cooling, not just when left damp. Hence garages trying to sell expensive 'services' involving an aerosol.

13 minutes ago, anchorman said:

However, that said I am an advocate of leaving it permanently switched on.

Yes and no. I turn mine off before leaving it for a long time (like parked overnight). This is to prevent it from starting the engine for heat as soon as I turn it on next time, which may be just to get it out the garage. I Turn it on as soon as I actually drive off somewhere.

[bathtub tom]

7 hours ago, CPN said:

That's a bit of a sweeping statement don't you think?

It's what I find. It's the poorest A/C on any of the cars I've owned. It works, but takes ages to cool the car on a hot day. It's why I had an A/C service, but that didn't improve matters. The most improvement I found was fitting a new cabin filter, the one I replaced was upside down according to the arrows. It had only been serviced by main dealer from new! Yes I know there's a discrepancy between indicating air flow and UP.

[SDR]

48 minutes ago, MikeSh said:

 

Absolutely. But opening windows with it off will still consume more energy.

(There were a few tests done by 'people' (eg. Mythbusters?) to test this a few years back, but I honestly can't remember any of the take-aways. I suspect it was all a bit inconclusive.)

Which happens all the time the system is cooling, not just when left damp. Hence garages trying to sell expensive 'services' involving an aerosol.

 

The accepted wisdom, based on the expert opinions of motoring journalists and the like (so it must be true), is that it is better to have windows open below about 50mph and use aircon above that speed (in terms of minimising fuel use).   Personally, being a cold blooded sort, I don’t usually feel the need for aircon until it's so hot that I wouldn't want windows open anyway!   I may use the aircon in the Corolla more for the sake of the hybrid Battery. 

You may well be right about the system creating bacteria all the time it is running but, again, the accepted wisdom from 'experts' seems to be that leaving it wet with condensation is best avoided.   All I can be certain about is that I try to avoid doing that and have never felt the need to use any kind of sanitiser.    I think I remember reading,  perhaps on the HJ website, that leaving the heating running at max temp, high fan speed, for 15 minutes is as effective as a sanitiser spray.   Never tried it so don't know. 

[SDR]

30 minutes ago, bathtub tom said:

It's what I find. It's the poorest A/C on any of the cars I've owned. It works, but takes ages to cool the car on a hot day. It's why I had an A/C service, but that didn't improve matters. The most improvement I found was fitting a new cabin filter, the one I replaced was upside down according to the arrows. It had only been serviced by main dealer from new! Yes I know there's a discrepancy between indicating air flow and UP.

Have you tried using the recirculating air function?   There are pros and cons but it certainly helps the system because it is cooling already cooled air rather than hot air from outside.    It also reduces pollution from outside.   Some people don't like it though.    The dehumidifying function of aircon makes the air inside the car very dry when recirculating. 

[Stevie J]

The A/C in mine is pretty poor, on days such as today, when it was sunny all day and got up to 22C it gives only mildly cooled air from the vents when switched on, but eventually it will cool down the car sufficiently, just seems to take time to get going. I usually set the recirc once the car has cooled down enough.

It is going to have the system checked and re-gassed when it goes for a full service next week as its nearly 10 years old and has never been re-gassed. I am sure the a/c should be much cooler than it currently gets, and it is probably low on refrigerant.

I used to switch the a/c off a few minutes before the end of a journey, but in winter, when I needed the a/c on to demist the windows, that just caused the windows to immediately fog up again and the air from the vents to feel damp. Mine does smell when I start the car the next day but if the a/c is switched back on the smell stops quite quickly. I presume it probably needs a new pollen filter, despite the last one being fitted less than 10K miles ago, although that was 4 years ago as my car only covers low mileage.

But the fact the a/c still works is something of a novelty to me really as the 2 yaris's I had before (a 1999 1.0 CDX and a 2006 1.3 T3)  neither of them the a/c worked on, they both lost all their gas through leaks in the system.

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, SDR said:

The accepted wisdom, based on the expert opinions of motoring journalists and the like (so it must be true), is that it is better to have windows open below about 50mph and use aircon above that speed (in terms of minimising fuel use). 

But the differences are, AFAICR, marginal.

If you spend most of the time in traffic then you may save a few pence leaving it off and opening the windows, but then you lose life expectancy breathing the city atmosphere.

And if you want to hack down the motorway with the windows open ... yeah, you are special.

Unlike buildings cars are a difficult space. They pollute massively and are a mini glasshouse. Leaving the aircon off to save the planet is like hypermiling - the only thing that will see a difference is the brain of the initiator. 

(Don't get me wrong, we have a global problem, but it is way, way bigger than using the aircon in our cars.)

3 hours ago, SDR said:

the accepted wisdom from 'experts' seems to be that leaving it wet with condensation is best avoided.

The thing is that you need to turn it off long enough before turning off to a) let it get back to ambient temperature and b) evaporate the moisture on the matrix before stopping the fan. The latter takes a long time and I doubt many/any people turn it off soon enough. So the bugs will multiply.

[Stevie J]

Most people wouldnt even think to turn the a/c off long before they reach their destination in order to dry out the evaporator coil - as Mike says, it would take some time to dry off, so normally it would be left to drip dry into the collector tray once the car is stopped and parked, hence the puddle under the engine that develops under many parked cars in warmer weather.

If the pollen filter is dirty or compromised, or its gasket does not seal well round the edges, dirt, dust, dead flies etc will end up passing into the evaporator and it is likely that when this gets wet, it causes mould and bacteria to thrive, with the evaporator not getting cold enough to kill them off, and this is what causes the smells. If the a/c is not used for some time afterwards, the coil will dry up and the smells usually die off - until the next time the a/c is used. 

The problem is the evaporator coil is not accessible to be able to clean it off, as it is buried behind the dashboard, so those "bombs" you put in the footwell and then close the car up, and run the a/c in recirculate mode, are supposed to kill off the bacteria in the coil and drip tray.

Those who have the a/c on all the time are less likely to smell the bad odours as they seem to be inhibited whilst the coil is cold and chilling the air - it is only once the damp coil warms up again after switching off the a/c that you notice the smell.

So the answer would seem to be, either run the a/c all the time the car is running, or dont run it at all, and that way you wont notice any bad smells. No matter what I do, whenever I run my a/c, for a few days afterwards, I always get the bad smell, but then it fades away.

[HughA]

The last time I had my Mk3 Yaris serviced by a Toyota dealer they recommended an air con clean for £125.  Needless to say I turned down their offer.  Their response was to tell me I was endangering my family's health because of the high level of bacteria they had measured in the system!

Last week I noticed the aircon was hardly working.  I took the car to an F! Autocentre near me and they leak tested, refilled and cleaned the system all for £69.  Working fine now.

I do leave the A/C permanently on, never thought of turning it off when nearing destination.

[bathtub tom]

41 minutes ago, HughA said:

 I was endangering my family's health because of the high level of bacteria they had measured in the system!

I'd like to see their evidence for that!

[SDR]

7 hours ago, MikeSh said:

But the differences are, AFAICR, marginal.

If you spend most of the time in traffic then you may save a few pence leaving it off and opening the windows, but then you lose life expectancy breathing the city atmosphere.

Completely agree.   I rarely drive with the windows open.    Strictly speaking, it may be more efficient than using the aircon below a certain speed, but that doesn't mean that it is either worth it or pleasant. 

[SDR]

7 hours ago, MikeSh said:

 

The thing is that you need to turn it off long enough before turning off to a) let it get back to ambient temperature and b) evaporate the moisture on the matrix before stopping the fan. The latter takes a long time and I doubt many/any people turn it off soon enough. So the bugs will multiply.

I'm sure that you are right and, whilst I do turn the aircon off in time to get the system back to ambient temperature (when I remember), I don't expect that I do it in time to get the entire system completely dry.

On the other hand, I have never had a bad smell from the hvac in any car that I have owned (and never used any cleaning products).    So either what I do is enough or I'm just lucky 😀.

 

[PCM]

Air Con servicing - No.

DIY a/c bomb at £6 - fine.

Regular use - all seasons - yes.