Gt4 Engine Removal

[Fawbs]

Ok a few weeks ago started taking my engine apart, i did this as i have all the parts to recon the head on order and a day so to be delivered now so i decided to take the head off first even though usually you just drop the whole engine out the bottom. Also the car club on base has no bays available and they are changing locations in october. So i couldn't be ubikd waiting around and got right to it, i haven't spent too much time on it but all has gone quite well, I went home last week as my parents moved house so i thought i would visit. I de-coked the ports and got the head skimmed which revealed something interesting. As you will see on the pictures below you can see where my piston ring blew up on number 2 or 3 cant remember now. The head was off my old block which i unfortunately took out in a crash in 2007. This made my eyebrows as the guys who did most the work on reassembling the new engine never told me about this damage and leads me to believe whether they actually got the head skimmed at all when they did it:S. My own fault really as i was no where near as gen'd up on the car as i am now. Luckily the damage is all inside the gasket bracelet as shown on one of the pictures and i spoke to the engineering guys who skimmed they head and said it should be fine so i have been very lucky there. Another annoying thing i noticed is that 2 of the valve spring seats were missing, there is no damage just a bit more scratching on one of the valve recesses. If anyone has any of these spare please let me know.

I have noticed 2 and 3 pistons and the ports on the head leading to them are much dirtier than the others, i am guessing cause this is a centre feed inlet manifold and not the designed side feed which i think you find on the st165.

Next thing to do is disconnect the harness which im not too sure about so hopefully dawsey or someone is about who can give me a bit of a guide if not i will attempt it anyway and see how far i get.

[dawesy]

if you look at the main fuse box in the engine bay you will see that the front separates (3 clips) lift this up and disconect the two plugs. then inside the passenger foot well pull back the carpet in the tunnel. unplug the 3 plugs from the ecu then follow the wiring up behind the cntr console and disconectthe plugs up there (3 or 4 cant remember) and then theres one under the heater fan (under the glovebox). back insider the engine bay there will be 2 nuts holung the engine main wireharness boot to the bulk head pull and remove harness. thats about it. there are a couple more conections but these will become aparents as you try to fold the loom up.

BTW those are detonation marks on the head. be a good idea to get it on the rollers and get it checked when its up and running again.

[Fawbs]

This won't affect anything will it? the detonation marks? they are all inside the bracelet, the bloke said the ring had gone on it. I'd imagine this is from my old block as when i crashed it i drove it back to base over about a mile or so and it seriously over heated. Stupid thing i know but there was other things to consider at the time. I would have thought there would be marks on the piston if this block had caused these marks but all the pistons look in perfect condition from what i can see. I thought the knock sensor would have picked up the detonation?

[Fawbs]

Just give you an idea of what i have got and what i am getting.

Already have the walbro upgraded fuel pump on it and fmic, straight air intake, a/c systems removed along with charge cooler system. Also got a bigger radiator in her along with full 3" exhaust systems and a dp with a racing cat welded into it. New power steering rad, gearbox rad and oil rad with thermostat adaptor plate to keep it at 80deg. cant think of what else

I have:

The water pump on it has literally done about 500miles

Oil pump

Adjustable cam gears

HKS fine tune timing belt

ferrea valves std size

supertech dual springs and titanium retainers

HKS 264 camshafts

F1 stage 4 clutch 6puck rated to 519bhp/490lbs torque

F1 flywheel (highly recommended off gt4oc.net half the weight of the std flywheel)

Head gasket set

Head is skimmed

800c injectors (just been ordered) www.flatoutrun.com Seems to be the cheapest place to get sard injectors for the 3sgte, 278 quid

ACL Racing shells, rod, thrust washer

Things on the list

Pistons and rods (yet to be decided, looking into getting some mahle pistons for a balance of performance and durability)

bottom gasket set

crank balancing and lightening

Cylinder re-bored either for piston expansion or if cylinders turn out to be a bit oval so may just bored out to 86.5

mappable ecu

Block to have chemical bath

Full servicing parts - Plug, leads, belt tensioner etc

Bigger turbo, looking into a gt3071r i think i was looking at

Lighter power steering pulley and new belt

Oil catch can

Thinking of adding a header tank and swirl pot to the coolant system but i dont full understand how it works yet so still need to research unless u can draw a diagram or explain it.

only going to take it to 450bhp

I may have missed things, if you can think of anything i should be looking into checking or upgrading please let me know. How is the crack in your block dawesy, have you replaced the block or is that coolant stuff dealing with it?

[dawesy]

ok list looks good.

dont bother with lightening the crank but do get the whole bottom rotating assembly dynamicaly balanced (crank, crank pulley and flywheel+clutch cover).

i can reccomend THS rods, i have them in mine, about £350 a set. steer clear of Eagle rods as ive heard of failures.

pistons either CP or JE, not really had a lot of experiance of the mahle's in the 3S world but they are common with the ford boys so most likley be fine.

i would have it rebored to 86.5 as a matter of course, make sure that the engineer has experiance of the honing pattern that is needed in a high power output engine.

i dont run a header tank but do run evans NPG R. fennies run an open system and might be able to help with that (they also sell evans too)

power steering pulley isnt going to get any noticable gains but will look bling ;)

as for ECU choice, i dont know what you have bvudgeted but the HYDRA Nemissis (tractive solutions) is top rate and is slightly better value than a motec but has more features as standard.

my block has been fine. the hard block that is filling half the water jacket is doing a good job, that along with the evans.

[Fawbs]

I thought getting the crank lightened is a lot better for higher revving applications? Just had a look at the hydra ecu, it does actually look really good, is it hard to install or does it come with good instructions. See i have spoke to a few people including people who use eagle rods for rebuilds and they say they are good, obviously they accept maybe brands like crower rods are more highly rated but why use a more expensive rod when the cheaper one is doing the job, i guess it comes down to different people different experiences, i'll see if i can find anymore feedback on them. Pistons ive been told JE pistons take their time to expand on startup, everyone seems to have high opinions on mahle as im sure it says you can have clearance of 0.002 but on higher power machines that goes up to 0.004 but did not state where high power begins and ends for the pistons. I did try and look at the mahle site but it is quite vast and not quite user friendly either that or its me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...;category=33623

I saw these, tried to get more info on them like groove sizes etc but they said contact mahle which isnt the most encouraging sign. One thing i dont understand is the cut outs in the piston, are they to give the valves extra clearance, surely if this is the case it would have recesses for all 4 valves unless its not an accurate picture.

You got no plans to get a new block in there?

[dawesy]

nah shes running sweet ATM.

yeah JE's take a while to quieten down but i can live with that, think the pic on eBay is of diferent pistons.

dont like lightening cranks really, i know someone who has a 3S that revs to 9000rpm, it has a TTE crank but its not really any lighter than the stock one. theres always a risk of weakening the crank with lightening.

the THS ones are a similar design to eagle but are a bit beefier in the big ind area, still a lot lighter than stock rods as well.

[Fawbs]

I would have thought the tte crank would be made better and of better material? Obviously this would save money, i mean i would have thought with the 264's in there it would rev just over 8,000rpm? Also i'm not looking for massive massive power pretty much aiming for what your corolla is chucking out 450ish horse power, going over 500 hundred is where things get expensive i think with new drive shafts etc. If you think its safe and well within limits to keep the crank as normal i will go for it, you have done plenty of work on these cars from what you told me so i'll trust your judgement.

Still havent taken the harness off, doing parade training at the moment for the freedom of oakham parade tomorrow, 8 hours standing around all day practicing same thing over and over again, ur legs aching like hell, its a form of torture. Friday im going to jump all over it, i'll let u know where i get up to as im going to disconnect a few more things underneathe.

[dawesy]

TTE crank is forged steel so it is stronger but the stock one is plenty strong enough.

im getting my power with stock inlet,exhaust manifolds and cams. the head has had a tidy up but all thats reall needed is remove the casting lines in the ports and smooth everything out really. i can rev mine to 8000-8500 if needed but all my power is there at about 6500 so no need.

the turbo is the key. if you can find one the Apexi RHX6 is awesome, bit laggy as real boost dosnt comein till about 4500 but its a real animal when it does.

itll push 2.5bar if needed although im getting by with just 1.8bar and flow aroung the 550-600bhp mark.

like i say they are rare and tend to go for around the £1000-£1200 mark second hand but they are pretty much bulletproof.

[Fawbs]

Ah i didn't realise apexi did turbo's i'll have a gander at their range this weekend. Still haven;t done the harness as all the gear for the head turned up but because of the new titanium retainers im getting new buckets which have a recess in which will fit an 8mm shim. I havent smoothed out the inlet and outlet just de-coked the outlet but im going to be using bigger cams with reduced weight to the valve train. Looking at my cams and the new hks ones, i swear mine are in better condition ha. I'm just lapping the valves at the moment, i did the exhaust ones last night i got bored after doing 2 of them and needed a break ha. Hopefully i can shift my cams and valve components on gt4oc as its a good upgrade for a 185 cause i think they run shim over bucket. Once i have done this im going to get on with the harness just i told supertech i would email them today with the measurements between the lobe and the stem. Thats pretty impress on standard cams. I tried to wash out the inlet manifold but i could only get so much oil stains out, wire brushed it and painted it aluminium colour. You know there is a plastic valve with a 3/4mm vacuum hose running off just to the left of the throttle body, do you know what its called?

[Fawbs]

I forgot to ask which head gasket are you using? I want to use a 1.4mm but i can only find 1.4's for the 185.

[dawesy]

HKS 1.2mm stopper gasket on mine.

not sure which valve you mean, a pic might help if it sits under the throttle body and has a 3 pin plug then its the Idle Speed Control valve.

cams sound good. doont worry about cleaning the inlet up too much as long as most of the oils gone alls good.

yeah lapping valves is a PITA

[Fawbs]

Ok heres a picture of what i mean there is usually a vacuum hose running off it but the end of it has snapped off, just a black valve that screws into the inlet.

Last night put the valves in using my old collets just waiting on new ones. I needed to measure the clearance between the tip of the stem and cam lobe so supertech can work out which shims to send me with new buckets. The new buckets will have a recess in them where a 8mm shim will go. they were nearly all 5.334mm except a couple where one was 5.065mm. So i had to expose the lobe to the follower because i had no 10/40 oil i just used some grease for the lobes and for bearings as a temporary lubricant. Harness is all off now, haven't pulled it out yet as dont need it out just yet but everything is disconnected, cheers for that mate.

How much should i sell my old valves for cause i really don't have the foggiest. They will include springs, collets, retainers, buckets and shims.

[dawesy]

ahh its just the take off for the map sensor. not realy needed TBH but if you want to replace it then try TCB for a used one.

cams and retainers look cool. dont know how much they are worth TBH, valves are about £40 each new.

[Fawbs]

I'll give them a try i'd rather replace it to be honest. Right until my new collets, valve spring seats, buckets and shims turn up thats the head at a work stop for now. Going to go and disconnect some more stuff and probably pull the harness out aswell.

[Fawbs]

Ok just some pictures of where the engine is up to, still need to do some simple stuff like disconnect the oil hoses etc. Still undecided whether to rent a hoist over the weekend or wait till the garage on base has moved locations but i really dont want to wait around.

Mike

[dawesy]

depending on where you are in relation to nottingham i have a hoist you can borrow for the job. let me know. you will need a van etc to pick it up though.

[Fawbs]

depending on where you are in relation to nottingham i have a hoist you can borrow for the job. let me know. you will need a van etc to pick it up though.

I'm not too far only about an hour if that, i'm in peterborough. I think i can get a van i wonder if i can borrow one off the squadron, borrow my mates landrover defender if u think it will go in there or my mate just had a small ford van that he just gave back to his mate. I will get on this tomorrow and let you know, is it a fold up job? Cheers for the offer, brings prices down and also i got some dye penetrant test stuff from work today along with developer and clearner/remover. We have the UV light at work so that is saving me buying that kit to check for cracks.

[dawesy]

yeah will fit in an estate car TBH but it is a bit heavy. yeah it folds up also got a load leveler as well (allows you to tilt the engine downwards, comes in quite handy)

dye kit sounds good although if its cracked you should see it.

mine looked like this...

mine was in number 3 cyl but they seem to go in either on the wall that joins 2&3

[Fawbs]

I take it that was before the dye was applied? From just viewing the cylinders myself they look fine, the block on mine has only done 30k so hopefully this will work in my favour.

Ok my mate has a VW Transporter van, dont know why i forgot that cause we did the gearbox on it a month or so ago and he said i can lend it so we will have to arrange a date to come get it. I'm going to jack the car up this weekend and see what needs to come off however with the load leveller it will be possible to take it out the top as someone told me if u angle the engine right u can get it out that way. I will take plenty of pictures in case im not sure of what needs to be removed from underneathe.

Also made some more progress for the future as my mate knows the top guy in the structures bay who will make u anything out of carbon fibre, apparently for a pack of bicuits. Ideally i want a cold air box and an undertray but carbon fibre for an undertray isnt ideal would rather have titanium and i can get hold of sheets of it as my mate told me they dump a lot of titanium, it is just finding someone to shape it correctly, I'll see what i can get hold of anyway.

Briggsy also said he would do my dye test as he used to do it everyday and is big into cars himself, he used to have a toyota soarer. For anyone who doesnt know what they are this included myself it is basically a supra with a different body, same engine except i think you can get it in a V8 aswell but very hard to find aftermarket parts for.

[dawesy]

yeah let us know when u want to fetch it (a weekend is best) dont want to sound rude but could you leave me a deposit on it? you can of course have it back when youve finnished with it and bring it back. sorry if this sounds cheeky.

soarers are cool. a lot of bits (suspension etc) will swap over from the supra. v8's are loads of sideways fun and good spec inside too. the TT ones are more sports oriantated though

[Fawbs]

Yeh i bet its like that vauxhall monaro, but a jap V8 must be unbelievable id be happy with a jap straight six out the supra. Yeh no worries mate how much do you want? I don't blame you like i could be a dirty thieving chav, i will probably look like one when i turn up in my car working clothes (tracky bottoms and hooded top). Will you be ok for next weekend obviously have to clear this with my mate but thats when i am going to aim for.

[dawesy]

next saturday would be fine, let us know if its still ok and what time your aiming to be here for (no prob just if i nip out ill know what time to be back for)

dunno about deposit is £40 ok, like i say youll get it back, i dont want any hire money. good to help someone out :)

yeah the good thing about the TT soarers is the later 2JZ bolts straight in (earlier ones had the 1JZ i believe) a nice reliable 500BHP on stock internals sounds good :)

[Fawbs]

Yeh big car though, I've seen that video of the celica against a 1000bhp supra, supra couldn't get the power down.

Ok i'll make sure he is free at the weekend and i will borrow someones sat nav.

Went underneathe the car today to see what needs disconnecting, got some pictures but then the batteries ran out.

Gearbox oil connections need disconnecting.

Engine oil needs dumping and disconnecting

Front pipe needs to come out.

Prop shaft needs disconnecting, does anything else in or around this picture need disconnecting apart from the rear mount

Suspension and wheels, what needs to happen here if anything. I know the driveshafts need to come out the gearbox.

Obviously all the mounts will need disconnecting when the weight is taken by the hoist. I was thinking of taking it out the top since the head is off along with the turbo, apparently if you angle it right it is possible to do so.

[dawesy]

prop will need removing and the worm drive from the transfer ( i can show you which bit when you come up)

you will need to undo the strut from the fig 8 and then remove the 2 bolts and a nut from each lower arm to hub, you can then pull the drive shafts from thhe gearbox.

front and rear mounts and cross member need removing (bit of a pig to do the back one as you have totilt the engine forward to get it out.

dont for get the banjo bolt on the power steering pump as well.

always taken them out the top TBH, its harder without the head on as there are no lifting points but its still possible