Urgent Advice Please ! Help !

[Zincubus]

Hey guys , I'm in a mess .

Took our W reg Rav4 Sport in for MOT and minor service ( to keep the costs down ) this morning - quoted price £170 ish.

After a couple of hours they rang and said there were a few problems ..... To get through the MOT it needs a new back-box costing £240 BUT if the middle section is damaged could be a lot more . Also needs coolant fluid cost £50 and steering needs alignment £50 . So I've approved the work and it should cost £500 and be ready tomorrow . He wasn't sure what it coukd cost if it's more than just a back-box as they don't know what's involved until they strip it all down .......... I don't think I'll sleep tonight :(

They also mentioned that the gearbox had a leak but they couldn't see where from but they've painted something over the gearbox which has to be checked in a month or so to see where the leak is .

There more worrying part was kept till the end of the conversation ...... He said that the engine was burning oil which is a very bad sign and I have two options . Number one is to pay £1,440 for a complete engine overhaul ( 20 hours labour ) or have a new engine put in which is out of the question .

This Rav has been serviced by Toyota since I got it 6 years ago so it's not been neglected by any means.

I would say that I trust these guys 100% so I'm not doubting their knowledge or honesty .

I'm just not sure when way to jump . We paid about £1500 last year just keep it on the road .

My worry is that we buy another second hand Rav , a couple of years younger, and end up with a different Rav with a different set of problems . You know the saying " better the devil you know " etc.

God willing it gets through the MOT and it's just the back-box that needs replacing , can I just keep checking and topping up the engine oil or does burning engine oil always result in something terrible happening to the engine unless sorted out ??

[Zincubus]

Just to add that the Rav had only had two owners and never been off-road or anything like that . We only do 5000 miles per year and the mileage is around 78,000 .

[three5]

It would be a good idea to quantify the problem of oil consumption before doing anything expensive/rash! Keep a record of how much oil you add to the motor over the next year. I'm betting that with that engine it won't amount to very much. Just as an aside and not totally relevant, Toyota say that you need to burn more than a litre of oil / 1000 mile to be able to claim there is a problem with the 4.3 D4D engine. When you get the motor back, buy a new 5 litre can of your favourite oil or the recommended grade and use that to top up as required. You will soon get an idea about how much it is using. You say that you're only doing 5000 miles/year - is this done as short journeys where the engine never gets really warm? It is likely to use more oil in these circumstances. Might benefit from an "Italian de-coke" occasionally just to get rid of the cob-webs ;)

[Zincubus]

It would be a good idea to quantify the problem of oil consumption before doing anything expensive/rash! Keep a record of how much oil you add to the motor over the next year. I'm betting that with that engine it won't amount to very much. Just as an aside and not totally relevant, Toyota say that you need to burn more than a litre of oil / 1000 mile to be able to claim there is a problem with the 4.3 D4D engine. When you get the motor back, buy a new 5 litre can of your favourite oil or the recommended grade and use that to top up as required. You will soon get an idea about how much it is using. You say that you're only doing 5000 miles/year - is this done as short journeys where the engine never gets really warm? It is likely to use more oil in these circumstances. Might benefit from an "Italian de-coke" occasionally just to get rid of the cob-webs ;)

Yes just to work and back each day , about 6 miles each way , hardly getting into 4th gear .

Sorry what's a ""Italian de-coke" ??? I'm useless with engines . Is its product I add to the petrol or a "blast out" on the motorways or something ??

How will they know that the engine is burning oil by the way . I've never noticed any smoke of any kind from anywhere .

Thanks for taking the time !

[dwilson]

I do hope this works out well for you. I am taking my wife's RAV to be looked at tomorrow as the exhaust is blowing - I am also apprehensive as to the cost, I hope the catalytic converter isn't involved.

David

[CharlieFarlie]

It would be a good idea to quantify the problem of oil consumption before doing anything expensive/rash! Keep a record of how much oil you add to the motor over the next year. I'm betting that with that engine it won't amount to very much. Just as an aside and not totally relevant, Toyota say that you need to burn more than a litre of oil / 1000 mile to be able to claim there is a problem with the 4.3 D4D engine. When you get the motor back, buy a new 5 litre can of your favourite oil or the recommended grade and use that to top up as required. You will soon get an idea about how much it is using. You say that you're only doing 5000 miles/year - is this done as short journeys where the engine never gets really warm? It is likely to use more oil in these circumstances. Might benefit from an "Italian de-coke" occasionally just to get rid of the cob-webs ;)

Mate "W" Reg was way before the 4.3 Rav came about..... So oil burning should not be a concern for this car....

Am I the only one thinking the prices for the work are a bit steep ???

[three5]

Sorry Zincubus! - Italian de-coke is a good blast ( on the motorway? ) which is supposed to clean the engine out, often recommended by "MOT" Testers on vehicles which do a lot of short journeys if there is a difficulty passing the emissions test! Sometime they also include some fuel additive to aid the process. Funny thing is, it often works on older motors

Charlie - the reference to the 4.3 D4D was only intended to reassure Zincubus that 1000/litre is not desperate oil consumption. In his case, only a £15 can / year and you would have to run it for about 100 years to get your money back on a new engine compared with that.

I know you contemplated a RR Evoke at one time ( maybe still do and I can see why ). Don't know if you have any experience of older LR's but all the ones that I had seemed to use fuel to oil on about a 10:1 ratio. That is probably a slight exaggeration but you get the pint, sorry point! If I went down to see my family in Warwickshire I carried a 5 litre can with me and often used a fair bit of it, particularly towing a laden trailer.

[CharlieFarlie]

Sorry Zincubus! - Italian de-coke is a good blast ( on the motorway? ) which is supposed to clean the engine out, often recommended by "MOT" Testers on vehicles which do a lot of short journeys if there is a difficulty passing the emissions test! Sometime they also include some fuel additive to aid the process. Funny thing is, it often works on older motors

Charlie - the reference to the 4.3 D4D was only intended to reassure Zincubus that 1000/litre is not desperate oil consumption. In his case, only a £15 can / year and you would have to run it for about 100 years to get your money back on a new engine compared with that.

I know you contemplated a RR Evoke at one time ( maybe still do and I can see why ). Don't know if you have any experience of older LR's but all the ones that I had seemed to use fuel to oil on about a 10:1 ratio. That is probably a slight exaggeration but you get the pint, sorry point! If I went down to see my family in Warwickshire I carried a 5 litre can with me and often used a fair bit of it, particularly towing a laden trailer.

Didnt like the Evoque when it finally came out.. Just way to small in the back and the rear just looks daft to me... I was just about to go barmy and buy a Jaguar XKR RS when out of the blue we sold our house and ended up putting all our money into property.. Ah well its likely better that way if not so exiting....

[CharlieFarlie]

Sorry Zincubus! - Italian de-coke is a good blast ( on the motorway? ) which is supposed to clean the engine out, often recommended by "MOT" Testers on vehicles which do a lot of short journeys if there is a difficulty passing the emissions test! Sometime they also include some fuel additive to aid the process. Funny thing is, it often works on older motors

Charlie - the reference to the 4.3 D4D was only intended to reassure Zincubus that 1000/litre is not desperate oil consumption. In his case, only a £15 can / year and you would have to run it for about 100 years to get your money back on a new engine compared with that.

I know you contemplated a RR Evoke at one time ( maybe still do and I can see why ). Don't know if you have any experience of older LR's but all the ones that I had seemed to use fuel to oil on about a 10:1 ratio. That is probably a slight exaggeration but you get the pint, sorry point! If I went down to see my family in Warwickshire I carried a 5 litre can with me and often used a fair bit of it, particularly towing a laden trailer.

Didnt like the Evoque when it finally came out.. Just way to small in the back and the rear just looks daft to me... I was just about to go barmy and buy a Jaguar XKR RS when out of the blue we sold our house and ended up putting all our money into property.. Ah well its likely better that way if not so exiting....

[pmb]

I take it these are exhaust prices from Mr T? If you look on www.exhaustdirectfit.co.uk there are pattern parts for much cheaper.

[Zincubus]

I take it these are exhaust prices from Mr T? If you look on www.exhaustdirectfit.co.uk there are pattern parts for much cheaper.

Sorry I'm useless with cars and can't do anything myself , that's why I use and trust Toyota . I occasionally use the local garage as its sometimes more convenient but they have cocked up a couple of times and they are only about 10% cheaper than the Toyota anyways .

Is there anyone out there that has experience of exhausts on a 13 year old Rav4 Mk1 ...... are we likely to get away with it just being the back box or is it more LIKELY to be the middle section as well and is that gonna cost an awful lot more ???

I'm panicking , we can't really afford to pay £500 but it's gonna be an extra £300 for the middle bit of exhaust we are really screwed .

[flyboyprowler]

My thoughts are that if you want to keep the car, then the Toyota parts could be the best investment. If your car has failed the MOT then somehow it will have to be fixed, and is worth a lot more with an MOT than without.

As to oil consumption, they say it is a problem, but have you checked it yourself, or noticed clouds of black smoke behind the car when accelerating hard!

As to prices, yes main dealers are higher, but then you are paying for the plush surroundings, the salaries, the the privilege of sitting in their posh showroom!!! My 4.3 petrol came back today from the 6 year/60000 service, with no problems and all for £365, gulp!

My 4.2 has the same mileage as yours, and the exhaust is fine, I personally would stick to Toyota parts, as pattern ones can be less long lasting than the manufacturer.

Finally, as they have the car already, don't be afraid to ask for a discount!

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

[Zincubus]

My thoughts are that if you want to keep the car, then the Toyota parts could be the best investment. If your car has failed the MOT then somehow it will have to be fixed, and is worth a lot more with an MOT than without.

As to oil consumption, they say it is a problem, but have you checked it yourself, or noticed clouds of black smoke behind the car when accelerating hard!

As to prices, yes main dealers are higher, but then you are paying for the plush surroundings, the salaries, the the privilege of sitting in their posh showroom!!! My 4.3 petrol came back today from the 6 year/60000 service, with no problems and all for £365, gulp!

My 4.2 has the same mileage as yours, and the exhaust is fine, I personally would stick to Toyota parts, as pattern ones can be less long lasting than the manufacturer.

Finally, as they have the car already, don't be afraid to ask for a discount!

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

Thanks . I will probably have to let them fix everything , I'm just concerned that the middle section of exhaust is also beggered and they ask for an extra £300 or something .... I haven't eaten since they rang , I managed to get a smoothie down somehow.

[DjRav]

I know you said you trust these people, but they're offering up everything they possibly can to make some money.

Leaking this and dodgy that are expected on an older car, doesn't mean EVERYTHING had to be done.

Stick with what NEEDS doing for now for the MOT and nothing else is my advice.

Sceptical Dave

[Zincubus]

I know you said you trust these people, but they're offering up everything they possibly can to make some money.

Leaking this and dodgy that are expected on an older car, doesn't mean EVERYTHING had to be done.

Stick with what NEEDS doing for now for the MOT and nothing else is my advice.

Sceptical Dave

I know you said you trust these people, but they're offering up everything they possibly can to make some money.

Leaking this and dodgy that are expected on an older car, doesn't mean EVERYTHING had to be done.

Stick with what NEEDS doing for now for the MOT and nothing else is my advice.

Sceptical Dave

Yeah , thanks .

I will just get it through the MOT and then I'll have time to reconsider things.

[anchorman]

I think Toyota are supposed to be getting a grip of prices for things like exhausts so the dealers can at last start to be competitive but not yet maybe. As the others have eluded, the engine hasn't started using oil over night and maybe their comments were based on the fact it was low when they serviced it. They will often run for years while using some oil so don't do anything rash. If you want to pm me your details and the number for the dealer I will phone them to find out exactly what is going on (but it might not be until weekend as I am rushed off my feet these days).

[three5]

Hi Zincubus,

You don't say anywhere if you have to top up the oil on a regular basis. If you don't, that is a good indication that there isn't a lot wrong. Mine is dealer serviced once a year ( I do about 8k/year ) but the first thing that I do when I get the car home is check the oil. I don't know what Toyota's policy is on the amount of oil used to fill the engine, but mine is usually not much above half way between the marks on the dipstick when it comes out of the dealers. If yours comes out of the dealers with the oil halfway down the dipstick and you don't top it up, you definitely don't have anything to worry about on that score.

Because of the number of short journeys that I do and because it is a diesel engine, mine also gets an inter-service oil and filter change, which I do myself.

[Zincubus]

I think Toyota are supposed to be getting a grip of prices for things like exhausts so the dealers can at last start to be competitive but not yet maybe. As the others have eluded, the engine hasn't started using oil over night and maybe their comments were based on the fact it was low when they serviced it. They will often run for years while using some oil so don't do anything rash. If you want to pm me your details and the number for the dealer I will phone them to find out exactly what is going on (but it might not be until weekend as I am rushed off my feet these days).

Thank you for that offer , I may take you up on that , I will know more tonight .... hopefully >

[Zincubus]

Hi Zincubus,

You don't say anywhere if you have to top up the oil on a regular basis. If you don't, that is a good indication that there isn't a lot wrong. Mine is dealer serviced once a year ( I do about 8k/year ) but the first thing that I do when I get the car home is check the oil. I don't know what Toyota's policy is on the amount of oil used to fill the engine, but mine is usually not much above half way between the marks on the dipstick when it comes out of the dealers. If yours comes out of the dealers with the oil halfway down the dipstick and you don't top it up, you definitely don't have anything to worry about on that score.

Because of the number of short journeys that I do and because it is a diesel engine, mine also gets an inter-service oil and filter change, which I do myself.

I have NEVER added any oil at all. I simply do nothing apart from adding petrol and wiper fluid.

Toyota service it once a year with the MOT and that's it.

Also , we do 5,000 miles a year , all short 6 mile journeys and the occasional 50 mile day out .

[three5]

Hi Zincubus,

You don't say anywhere if you have to top up the oil on a regular basis. If you don't, that is a good indication that there isn't a lot wrong. Mine is dealer serviced once a year ( I do about 8k/year ) but the first thing that I do when I get the car home is check the oil. I don't know what Toyota's policy is on the amount of oil used to fill the engine, but mine is usually not much above half way between the marks on the dipstick when it comes out of the dealers. If yours comes out of the dealers with the oil halfway down the dipstick and you don't top it up, you definitely don't have anything to worry about on that score.

Because of the number of short journeys that I do and because it is a diesel engine, mine also gets an inter-service oil and filter change, which I do myself.

I have NEVER added any oil at all. I simply do nothing apart from adding petrol and wiper fluid.

Toyota service it once a year with the MOT and that's it.

Also , we do 5,000 miles a year , all short 6 mile journeys and the occasional 50 mile day out .

Hi Zincubus,

even if Toyota filled the engine to the top mark on the dipstick at service and it was at/near the bottom mark a year later ( - i.e. worst case scenario ) that means that you have used about one litre of oil over 5-6000 miles. I really don't believe that you have anything to worry about with this engine.

Rather rude question, so don't be offended: you do check the oil on a regular basis don't you? I had an Isuzu that never used ANY oil and often felt that checking it was a waste of time - but I did do it every week! The thought of the oil light coming on 4-500 miles from home was a great motivator! Once the oil ( pressure ) warning light comes on, it's often too late to save the engine. Can I start a campaign to bring back the oil pressure gauge?

[firemac]

Hi Zincubus,

You don't say anywhere if you have to top up the oil on a regular basis. If you don't, that is a good indication that there isn't a lot wrong. Mine is dealer serviced once a year ( I do about 8k/year ) but the first thing that I do when I get the car home is check the oil. I don't know what Toyota's policy is on the amount of oil used to fill the engine, but mine is usually not much above half way between the marks on the dipstick when it comes out of the dealers. If yours comes out of the dealers with the oil halfway down the dipstick and you don't top it up, you definitely don't have anything to worry about on that score.

Because of the number of short journeys that I do and because it is a diesel engine, mine also gets an inter-service oil and filter change, which I do myself.

I have NEVER added any oil at all. I simply do nothing apart from adding petrol and wiper fluid.

Toyota service it once a year with the MOT and that's it.

Also , we do 5,000 miles a year , all short 6 mile journeys and the occasional 50 mile day out .

Hi Zincubus,

even if Toyota filled the engine to the top mark on the dipstick at service and it was at/near the bottom mark a year later ( - i.e. worst case scenario ) that means that you have used about one litre of oil over 5-6000 miles. I really don't believe that you have anything to worry about with this engine.

Rather rude question, so don't be offended: you do check the oil on a regular basis don't you? I had an Isuzu that never used ANY oil and often felt that checking it was a waste of time - but I did do it every week! The thought of the oil light coming on 4-500 miles from home was a great motivator! Once the oil ( pressure ) warning light comes on, it's often too late to save the engine. Can I start a campaign to bring back the oil pressure gauge?

Oh yes, I'd sign that petition. And the ammeter & vac gauge as well!!

[flyboyprowler]

Hi Zincubus,

You don't say anywhere if you have to top up the oil on a regular basis. If you don't, that is a good indication that there isn't a lot wrong. Mine is dealer serviced once a year ( I do about 8k/year ) but the first thing that I do when I get the car home is check the oil. I don't know what Toyota's policy is on the amount of oil used to fill the engine, but mine is usually not much above half way between the marks on the dipstick when it comes out of the dealers. If yours comes out of the dealers with the oil halfway down the dipstick and you don't top it up, you definitely don't have anything to worry about on that score.

Because of the number of short journeys that I do and because it is a diesel engine, mine also gets an inter-service oil and filter change, which I do myself.

Mine is just back from service, and oil is on the top mark!

Yes yes yes to the extra gauges. I remember my old mini cooper "s", fully tuned and all the extra gauges added.

[three5]

Mine is just back from service, and oil is on the top mark!

Yes yes yes to the extra gauges. I remember my old mini cooper "s", fully tuned and all the extra gauges added.

Suspect that we "of an age" Ainsley. I never had a Cooper but I did have a Riley Elf which was a great motor and came with the extra gauges.

[flyboyprowler]

Spot on Chris, and wouldn't we want those cars back now!!

sorry, a bit off topic!

[Zincubus]

Hi Zincubus,

You don't say anywhere if you have to top up the oil on a regular basis. If you don't, that is a good indication that there isn't a lot wrong. Mine is dealer serviced once a year ( I do about 8k/year ) but the first thing that I do when I get the car home is check the oil. I don't know what Toyota's policy is on the amount of oil used to fill the engine, but mine is usually not much above half way between the marks on the dipstick when it comes out of the dealers. If yours comes out of the dealers with the oil halfway down the dipstick and you don't top it up, you definitely don't have anything to worry about on that score.

Because of the number of short journeys that I do and because it is a diesel engine, mine also gets an inter-service oil and filter change, which I do myself.

I have NEVER added any oil at all. I simply do nothing apart from adding petrol and wiper fluid.

Toyota service it once a year with the MOT and that's it.

Also , we do 5,000 miles a year , all short 6 mile journeys and the occasional 50 mile day out .

Hi Zincubus,

even if Toyota filled the engine to the top mark on the dipstick at service and it was at/near the bottom mark a year later ( - i.e. worst case scenario ) that means that you have used about one litre of oil over 5-6000 miles. I really don't believe that you have anything to worry about with this engine.

Rather rude question, so don't be offended: you do check the oil on a regular basis don't you? I had an Isuzu that never used ANY oil and often felt that checking it was a waste of time - but I did do it every week! The thought of the oil light coming on 4-500 miles from home was a great motivator! Once the oil ( pressure ) warning light comes on, it's often too late to save the engine. Can I start a campaign to bring back the oil pressure gauge?

Not rude at all :)

I have never EVER checked the oil level , it's serviced and then it runs like a dream for 12 months and then it's serviced again ...

From now on I will check it religiously every weekend because I'm going to be paranoid about it . I think it has to be done on a cold engine and flat/level surface and the reading should be between the min and max levels.....

I asked him why they thought it was burning oil and he said that their was some smoke to be seen coming out of the exhaust when e car was started and that's a tell- tale sign that's something's wrong inside the engine and if we don't get it sorted whatever it is will obviously get worse with time .... I talked him into letting me have a couple of litres of engine oil .....

The end result was that it was just the back-box that needed replacing so the total bill paid was £500 .