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TheTJW

Corolla 2.0 - questions from a prospective buyer

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Hi,

after reading many reviews and watching many YouTube reviews, I'm very tempted by the 2.0 Corolla hybrid.  I have a few questions though, that don't seem to be fully answered after the research I've done so far, so....

1. Does the 2.0 Corolla accelerate (in the low down register) like a regular electric car, so do you get the instant torque that most electric cars have?

2. Is there a speed where the the petrol engine kicks in, taking over from the electric motor, and if so, is this higher in the 2.0 compared to the 1.8?

3. Does the CVT gearbox rev excessively at high speed, or does it need to rev excessively to reach higher speeds?

4. Another acceleration question - I was also thinking of buying a Peugeot 308 GT (not hybrid or electric), do you think the acceleration of the Corolla (to 60mph) would be roughly comparable? (slightly slower would be fine though - 0.5 secs or so.)

Thanks in advance for any advice, it would be greatly appreciated, as I really want to make the right choice!

 

 

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1. No, it accelerates like a petrol car. For brisk acceleration use Sport mode.

2. Engine's in and out all the time, you don't always get a electric/petrol switch at the same point. This time of year the ICE starts first thing every day, to get the cabin warm. It'll always kick in for hard acceleration - the motor/battery alone aren't big enough for that.

3. Depends ho hard you want to accelerate. Floor it in sport and the revs will rise at sit at 6000 as long as your keep your foot in.

4. Check the figures but Corolla 2 id quicker on paper, probably down to the electric motor boost low down. But bear in mind all those figures are achieved using methods no sensible driver ever would!! In reality it's plenty quick enough.

Best is to get a test drive and see, especially if you're NOT going for the Excel. That grade has better soundproofing, so lesser grades will be noisier. 

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Thanks very much for your quick reply, that really helps.

I've heard that the Excel is quite a harsh ride on the 18" alloys, which is why I haven't been considering it - has this been the case in your experience?

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Hi Tim,

I could go on and on how good the 2.0 Corolla is but to be frank you really must test drive one for yourself to get a real feel how the power is delivered. I know this doesn't help you much but compared to the 1.8 Corolla it's mighty quick off the mark and very very nice ride. Enjoy.

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Some reports of harsh noisey  rides was put down to incorrectly tyre pressures eg some + 5 psi over

I previously had the 1.2turbo Auris which out performed the 1.6 powered Auris . The 1.8 Corolla in Sport mode appears to give similar performance without flooring the throttle.

common opinion seems to be 2.0 for performance and 1.8 for economy that said it is no slouch.

Any decent dealer should give you a couple of hours solo test drive. I think you will be impressed

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Thanks all very much for the advice.

I'm hoping that as I do a half an hour drive to work most days, on a very stop start route, with a few sections where I'm doing 40-55mph or so, that I'll manage to save on the petrol usage quite a lot with the Corolla also, with the hope that the electric engine will be used a lot over that kind of journey, so it's quite an attractive proposition.  I've currently got a SEAT Leon 1.4 TSi (the 138bhp) version, so am quite keen that the Corolla can match that kind of acceleration (or be faster!) than that.

Thanks again.

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Glad you haven’t concerned yourself with mpg figures, because it’s logical to say if you put your right foot down as if driving a GT you not going to get high mpg cause the petrol engine is being used more when the hoof is down hard and fast.  
On the other hand a Hybrid Toyota can deliver good mpg figures driven under the right conditions. 

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1 hour ago, TheTJW said:

Hi,

after reading many reviews and watching many YouTube reviews, I'm very tempted by the 2.0 Corolla hybrid.  I have a few questions though, that don't seem to be fully answered after the research I've done so far, so....

...

3. Does the CVT gearbox rev excessively at high speed, or does it need to rev excessively to reach higher speeds?

The CVT box (actually the engine) never revs 'excessively'. It is at all times operating within the design limits set by Toyota. Whatever RPMs the engine runs at will be the most suitable for the actions that the driver initiates. If you don't like to see engines operating at high RPMs(*) don't floor the accelerator.

(*)You should learn not to care. The ECU won't allow the engine or gearbox to be damaged and once you ease off the RPMs will drop back to an appropriate lower level. Being able to hold the engine RPMs at a high level for extended periods of time is a desirable feature of all CVT boxes. Learn to appreciate it :)

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56 minutes ago, TheTJW said:

Thanks very much for your quick reply, that really helps.

I've heard that the Excel is quite a harsh ride on the 18" alloys, which is why I haven't been considering it - has this been the case in your experience?

It's a softer ride than my old Jazz although they do have a bit of a reputation for a harsh ride (getting better every iteration). It seems to handle lumps and bumps just fine. I'd suggest a test drive to see what you think.

As has been said, though, the difference between 1.8 and 2.0 is economy v. power. A sensibly driven 1.8 (as by me, lol) has never done worse than 50 mpg in the twelve months I've owned it. It's dropped over winter from low 60s to low 50s but as the weather improves appears to be bouncing back. That's on an 11 mile commute which is 2 miles of busy urban and 9 miles of free flowing 50 mph open road.

As regards the power, there is plenty. Frankly anyone who claims to need more than 100 bhp needs some driving instruction and the ~130 bhp that the 1.8 can provide is more than adequate for any kind of sensible driving in my opinion. I rarely even push the car to the point where it has to combine battery and petrol. 99% of my driving is either low power on Battery only or medium power with just the ICE.

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1 hour ago, TheTJW said:

Thanks very much for your quick reply, that really helps.

I've heard that the Excel is quite a harsh ride on the 18" alloys, which is why I haven't been considering it - has this been the case in your experience?

Not since I dropped the tyre pressure from the 50+PSI the dealer left them at on delivery 🙄 but I like a firmer ride. The handling is nice and precise.

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Here is my 2 pence about the 2.0:

 

1. Not at all. With kickdown (or gas pedal pressed let's say more than half of its travel), ICE will always start and you have a normal petrol acceleration with CVT gearbox + a tiny help of the electric motor.

2. If you accelerate slowly, car will travel on Battery until you reach around 20-25mph then ICE will start. If you are extra cautious with the gas, in theory you can drive silently up to more than 70mph. I seriously doubt someone will be able to achieve this and keep his mental health for long...

3. Yes it does rev unnaturally high (compared to cars with manual/regular automatic/DSG) and it sounds like you are a teen racer with fresh driving license trying to impress a girl...

4. If you haven't tried a CVT car before, prepare to be disappointed by the false feeling of slow acceleration. What our bodies experience and relate to fast acceleration is the shaking (body movement forward and back) while changing gears. Move these out and you feel like going slower. In reality, with Battery not too low, acceleration will be quite similar to the stated 8 seconds to 100km/h.

 

Don't get me wrong. I like my 2.0 Corolla and I do not regret my purchase.

But your questions seem like what I was wondering and experiencing in the beginning.

My previous car was 2017 Seat Leon FR 1.8 TSI  180hp. On paper it is 7.7 0-100 and the Corolla is 8...not a big difference...but in reality it's huge...both what you feel and what you see in a drag race between the two cars...
So if you care much about acceleration, overtaking capabilities, merging really fast into a motorway, etc., you might be slightly disappointed if you previous car was similar or faster than my Leon...

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Red wheel/tyre size.    
Generally speaking, the lower the profile of the tyre, the harder the ride will be.       
Standard tyres on my Prius Excel are 17”, same on wife’s Auris (which used to be mine), and I found the 17” gave a hard ride (uk pot holed roads). So when buying my used Prius I looked for one with the optional 15” wheels and the ride is a lot softer.

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Every time the RPMs drop while changing gear in a conventional box costs performance - that's why your head nods forward, it's a temporary drop in acceleration. Also with conventional boxes during acceleration the engine will only be operating at optimum RPM for a short period of time. With a CVT the power is being applied continuously without a break and will be either the most efficient or the most powerful RPMs at all times.

It sounds 'orrible but note that it broke the lap record in the wet. Another sports advantage of CVT is that it can match the engine RPMs perfectly during deceleration and so you don't get have the problems of downshift on entry to a corner. It also makes for a better traction control system - if the driven wheels are losing their grip you just wind the ratio out slightly.

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Ok, so slightly confused about the acceleration thing - obviously, 0-60mph speed tests are all probably done at maximum (safe) revs, so the 0-60 times are all recorded when the engine is revving pretty hard, so in that respect I suppose the CVT will be reacting exactly the same as a petrol when trying to reach 60mph in the quickest time.  To be honest, I'd be more interested in 0-30mph or 0-40mph times, as pulling away from standing still is when most of us want some decent acceleration - I'm not talking boy racer or anything, but that nice shove in the back you get from diesel torque of the turbo of a petrol, is something I quite like, basically not sluggish - do you get anything like that with the 2.0 Corolla?

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1 hour ago, TheTJW said:

Ok, so slightly confused about the acceleration thing - obviously, 0-60mph speed tests are all probably done at maximum (safe) revs, so the 0-60 times are all recorded when the engine is revving pretty hard, so in that respect I suppose the CVT will be reacting exactly the same as a petrol when trying to reach 60mph in the quickest time.  To be honest, I'd be more interested in 0-30mph or 0-40mph times, as pulling away from standing still is when most of us want some decent acceleration - I'm not talking boy racer or anything, but that nice shove in the back you get from diesel torque of the turbo of a petrol, is something I quite like, basically not sluggish - do you get anything like that with the 2.0 Corolla?

Hi, you don’t get anything even closer to that, even exactly opposite feeling. The car is super smooth, it’s not slow but there is no sense of acceleration as already other guys mentioned, there is no low end torque and no shift shock from gears change or clutch engagement, it is kind of linear acceleration, very similar to the passenger air planes on take off. If you in sport mode for example the car gets extra juice from the Battery and does accelerate faster and add this extra push in the seat., but you need to have half or more Battery charge available. I can strongly recommend to you extended test drive in different road situations before you placing an order, maybe this type of car it’s not your cup of tea. For the wheels, yes horrible ride with 18 , acceptable with 17” , you can order with 17 on excel trim. I am changing from 17 to 16” on my Auris Hybrid, roads are simply horrible these days, I managed to damage two of my wheels on motorway, something that didn’t happen even I have that car driven to the end of Europe and back. 
 

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In my opinion 0-something is not so important as for example 40-80km/h or 80-120km/h.

In an acceleration from 0 with a front wheel drive you will have some wheelspin and traction control limiting the throttle which will anyway reduce the performance.

But the other accelerations are where an engine really shows up what it’s capable.

And there I am mostly disappointed from the Corolla. Maybe I am not yet fully used to the linear acceleration, but I am more often deciding not to overtake someone than with the Leon. With it there were multiple occasions where I have performed overtaking of 3-4 cars at once with absolute confidence that there is enough time before the upcoming car approaches.

No way to do this with the Corolla.

 

In other words: The Corolla is not a hot hatch/sporty car/a car that makes you wanna smash the gas...

For me the 2.0 is the bare minimum for “normal” driving. Anything slower than it is worse than my wife’s 1.0 TSI 95hp...(Apologies to 1.8 owners, this is just my opinion)

But that car makes you change your driving style and start enjoying the EV driving and low mpg. Add the Safety Sense aids and a 8+ hours/800+ km trip is not exhausting at all.

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40 minutes ago, OXYGEN said:

In other words: The Corolla is not a hot hatch/sporty car/a car that makes you wanna smash the gas...

In other words it's a hybrid car that uses a variety of techniques to minimise fuel consumption 😋

I know we've disagreed on this subject before but drivers who feel the need to 'smash the gas' or attempt unwise overtakes should look elsewhere (possibly a safer driving course). The Corolla is for sensible drivers who wish to reduce the amount of petrol they buy whilst not wanting to struggle to keep up with other vehicles. This is inevitably going to put it at odds with drivers who just like to drive around everywhere as if they were on a race track.

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Yes, we’ve disagreed before, but this time I am on your side.

The car has already changed my driving.

What I was trying to explain is what I was experiencing in the beginning. Because from the questions of TheTJW it seems to me that he is having the same expectations as me. 
Yes, acceleration in a hybrid is not so relevant, but still good to know. The same as what I was told years ago to my question about mpg of Impreza WRX STI - “If you are asking what is the fuel consumption, it’s probably not your car”... 

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The 2.0 is VERY fast of the line. The engine output is 152 hp without Battery, the 1.8 is 99 hp. Thats is huge difference for me, and on the motorway, I would'nt be happy with the 1.8. 

For my ears, the 2.0 has a more bas-like engine sound than the 1.8. They probably make the same noise in decibel, but the experience is a more quiet sound during acceleration. 

With the 2.0 it's much easier for me to find a perfect mix between the desired acceleration and revs (noise). My revs usually goes to to 3000 rpms during every acceleration. The enough to keep up with traffic. It's very often usefull to pull away quickly to catch the next green light, to slow, and the light goes red.

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Those who like putting the throttle to the floor when pulling away from every set of traffic lights then do this....   treat yourself, or better still get someone to treat you, to a track day driving at a proper race track. You probably get the chance to be driven round by a pro or semi pro and you will then feel what the proper meaning of “putting your foot to the floor” means.  Then you realise that 0-60 in 8 seconds is beyond the achievement of “normal” driver, and those figures tend to lose their significance.

You will also enjoy the fun of driving being able to use all the road and get the thrill of real speed.

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Accelerationen with GPS powered app. Of course the car starts moving before GPS detects signal changes, but still impressive. 

Battery charge was with only 3 bars, so Battery condition don't need to be perfect. 

Screenshot_20200225-185005.jpg

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In addition to other fantastic answers here, my experience is that the 2 ltr is very quick away from the lights, if you want it to be. Much to the shock or some owners of well known German makes who believe the outside lane is only for them!

My 2.0 will accelerate away with good torque, initially provided by the Battery motors only, with the petrol engine firing up soon after to continue the rapid progress with the CVT.

Because it is a CVT, I had to get used to high engine revs (I am used to a manual turbo, and was always quite kind to the engine re revs, using the turbo to provide the acceleration, rather than reving in lower gears). So 5K revs with smooth acceleration if you are pulling away on a duel carriage way. Once up to speed, the revs will drop, and on the motorway, on the flat, I often see 2K revs at over 70 mph, and for periods on EV only if driving smoothly. 

The CVT is a very different sensation.  No jerky gear changes, instant power, and you are surprised to see the speed pick up quickly, without the sensation of acceleration. The nearest likeness is taking off in a plane. Some hot headed drivers don't like it, because after the initial start off, you can only really sense the speed through the speedo rising.

I have grown to love it, but a test drive is recommended to get an idea.

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Speaking of quick accelerations, does your cars smoke a lot of white smoke (condensation?) during kickdown? I have noticed it several times in the rearview mirror during overtaking.

Is it something specific for the Atkinson cycle engine? Or I should I check it with the dealer?

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18 minutes ago, OXYGEN said:

Speaking of quick accelerations, does your cars smoke a lot of white smoke (condensation?) during kickdown? I have noticed it several times in the rearview mirror during overtaking.

Is it something specific for the Atkinson cycle engine? Or I should I check it with the dealer?

It does. Quite a lot. But Oil level is fine, no water is missing, so it can't be anything serious - I hope... 

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Hi,
 steam and water from exhaust in cold weather is a sign of perfectly working petrol engine and catalytic converter., you don’t need to worry about anything. All petrol cars does it, more steam - cleaner engine. 👍

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