Addons to fixed price servicing

[TonyHSD]

Another example when you are going continuously downhill in B mode and you have definitely engine braking at this moment the car actually charges the Battery faster as in B mode the regenerative braking it’s heavier, adds more energy  to the Battery then if the car is in D mode and left  free rolling.
The Battery gets fully charged faster and then you can feel the engine changes it’s voice, rpm’s jump up and you have no engine braking anymore , the car feel like surges forward, you only have actual brakes to hold it while you are still descending and if you come to a complete stop the engine will continue to spin at high rpm until the battery drops a bar from its full icon and then the engine will switch off itself. This has been discussed in Corolla forum last year., noted by other members who own Corolla gen4 hybrids. 👍

[IT Troll]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

They stop charging and the brakes take over.

But electricity is still being generated and they obviously don't have the option to turn over a traditional engine.

It is perhaps a hypothetical questions as you would have to charge the EV at the top of the mountain to get into that state anyway.

Edit: Just checked out a couple of EV forums. It seems this scenario will often result in overheat, Battery maintenance and repair warnings. The advice seem to be don't fully charge if you live on top of a hill.

[IT Troll]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

This is how actually ev’s are catching fire, been towed with wheels on the ground, the system gets overcharged, then overheated and 💥. 

The Yaris Cross carries a similar tow warning in the manual.

[Cyker]

I'm fairly sure the hybrid system will just disconnect MG2 so it doesn't supply power any more if there is nowhere for it to go. I assume that's what it does in e.g. N mode.

These things aren't magic, the basic rules of electronics still apply!

i.e. if there is no circuit, no electricity will flow. It's like if you spin a little toy electric motor like you'd get on Scalextric cars - If it isn't connected to anything, nothing happens, it doesn't suddenly heat up and explode. Maybe if you spun it fast enough you could get the voltage high enough to arc but I suspect the motor would melt from friction before that happened  

Without a closed circuit, MG2 will just freewheel without the resistance of the regen as there isn't any electron flow to push against it.

I would think EVs would be similar unless they are poorly designed; There's certainly no reason they should be forced to overcharge the Battery unless it's some sort of misguided fail-safe in case the friction brakes stop working.

 

[IT Troll]

On 4/21/2023 at 7:42 PM, Cyker said:

I'm fairly sure the hybrid system will just disconnect MG2 so it doesn't supply power any more if there is nowhere for it to go.

As we saw in the manual page Anchorman posted, it doesn’t disconnect MG2, but instead the power being generated gets diverted to MG1 which then spins up the engine. From posts in other forums, this creates a vacuum effect within the engine which provides a background level of resistance and means you don’t get a true freewheel. The resistance is similar to that when MG2 is in downhill regen mode and the goal is to normalise the driving experience regardless of what the hybrid system is doing.

[anchorman]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:07 PM, TonyHSD said:

And when they stop charging where the energy goes ?

Even without resistance from the motor-generator (regen braking) there is still energy flow as a result of rotor turned, it’s a permanent magnet set up. 
For example If you drive 40mph downhill and select N then apply brakes you can still hear regen whining but less pronounced., quieter but still there. 
This is how actually ev’s are catching fire, been towed with wheels on the ground, the system gets overcharged, then overheated and 💥. 

 

You’re making things up again Tony.  If you take the field off a generator, it stops charging. Pull the field wire off an alternator it does the same thing.  How’s your Walter doing?

[TonyHSD]

When all this is happening the hybrid Battery gets discharged too all seen on the app and the dashboard. Plus this can happen after you had come to a complete stop, and in this case the car is stationary why the mg1 starts the engine and spin it high? And continue to do so until the Battery goes one bar down? 
 

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, IT Troll said:

As we saw in the manual page Anchorman posted, it doesn’t disconnect MG2, but instead the power being generated gets diverted to MG1 which then spins up the engine. From posts in other forums, this creates a vacuum effect within the engine which provides a background level of resistance and means you don’t get a true freewheel. The resistance is similar to that when MG2 is in downhill regen mode and the goal is to normalise the driving experience regardless of what the hybrid system is doing.

Hmm, could be; When I read that I didn't take it to mean electrical energy necessarily but kinetic energy too, as the ICE can turn MG2 and therefore the wheels via MG1, so the reverse must be true, but in that case that that might be what Tony is seeing, as that would allow MG1 to pull regen energy from MG2 AND the traction Battery to spin the ICE to free up capacity in the traction Battery while providing engine braking at the same time.

I must admit my direct experience is limited as I've only played with B-mode but never used it for realsies, as the D-mode regen has been more than enough, and I haven't been down any hills long or steep enough that I've generated more than a couple bars of power from them!

 

[anchorman]

2 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

When all this is happening the hybrid battery gets discharged too all seen on the app and the dashboard. Plus this can happen after you had come to a complete stop, and in this case the car is stationary why the mg1 starts the engine and spin it high? And continue to do so until the battery goes one bar down? 
 

I’ll take an ounce of whatever you’re on 😉👍

[Cyker]

To be fair that is a known thing on the older hybrids, but I'm not sure about the newer ones; I've never gotten mine to all 8 bars because as soon as I get to 7 it starts using MG2 much more, even at speeds it wouldn't normally use it, which drops the charge level down very quickly.

The new systems are much more obsessed with keeping the charge as close to 50% as possible compared to the older ones!!

 

[Nakamotoyo]

9 minutes ago, Cyker said:

To be fair that is a known thing on the older hybrids, but I'm not sure about the newer ones; I've never gotten mine to all 8 bars because as soon as I get to 7 it starts using MG2 much more, even at speeds it wouldn't normally use it, which drops the charge level down very quickly.

The new systems are much more obsessed with keeping the charge as close to 50% as possible compared to the older ones!!

 

Yes the optimum level longevity is around 50% (i.e. neither fully charged or discharged) 

[Andrew56]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, with some interesting diversions...

As previously explained my local dealer wanted to charge an extra £30 for fuel additive and antibacterial clean, so I found another dealer dealer, who would service the vehicle for the fixed price. So far so good.  

However in the middle of the service I was asked to authorise fuel additive and sanity system clean - but this time for an additional £50!!  Naturally I declined, but I felt this was pressure sellling, since it was presented as if it was due to something discovered during the service (clearly it wasn't), and I had to decide quickly.  The paperwork collected at the end stated these were issues I had declined, but needed to address in the near future.

Arguably one has to go to a francised dealer to minimise warranty issues, but this experience is so different from my local independent garage, who give good honest advice and go out of their way to avoid unnecessary work.  They don't need extra work as  local reputation means they are extremely busy.  Of course these addons are very lucrative for little effort. 

They also tried to sell me a 3 year service plan, which is fair enough and may have value.  But the problem is the plans cover maintenance stated by Toyota, but not the maintenance as "recommended" by the dealer.  So if one accepts the dealers suggestions one is not signing up to cover future (none wear and tear) costs.

 

[Cyker]

It is quite annoying how much difference there is between levels of service between dealers.