Paranoid about used Yaris Hybrid

[allanmcfish]

12 hours ago, MikeSh said:

Most cars give best economy around there. Oversimplifying - it's the speed where you are making decent distance per litre of fuel but not so high speed that air resistance, etc, is creating a lot of drag.

Got it! Thanks

4 hours ago, hind said:

Got something like that in a different car, after harsh braking everything started to get vibrations from the engine. I expected it to be a failed engine mount (the rubber might be worn out or the oil filling might spill out) but miraculously a few hours later there was no sign of it 😐 skilled mechanic should be able to spot that easily or even change them just in case.

Actually the thing about the little damage at the font makes no sense.. I was tired when I wrote it.

I feel it vibrating in the inside of the car, something plastic.

Maybe it's all part of the same engine vibration problem.

Maybe all of this is simply an engine mount, some screw or some other kind of damper/rubber thing?

 

[allanmcfish]

Hi guys!

So, I might have fixed the second vibration:
the first time I got the car I noticed a little plastic cap on the floor. I kept it but wanted the garage to fix it wherever it was supposed to be.
During the weekend I closely examined the car and I found where the cap fell off, I put it back there and for the moment I didn't experienced that vibration.

I also checked the fluids and I think that I'm good until the service. Engine coolant is not full but still halfway.
I couldn't properly access the brake fluid without taking apart other things so the best I could manage was to open the cap and with a little stick I tried to check the level.
I eventually found out that there is another cap (if I'm not mistaken) so I probably just touched some of the residual that was on top of it. I guess.
I was already scared enough by "messing" with the brake liquid so I did not proceed further.
So basically I don't know. From the outside it seems like there is a slightly blue liquid inside but if I try to move the thing I can't see any movement.

Speaking of brakes I will have them checked because they are quite rusty. I think that the Toyota service will anyway include that.
Anyway the car was given to me right after it successfully passed the annual "legal" check/test (don't know how to call it, we call it "collaudo").
In this test they are mostly concerned by safety (and emission? probably) things so they don't check for you engine oil for example but if the brakes were not okay it wouldn't have passed.

Tomorrow I'll call again the dealership since they still haven't answered me about the service and a test drive.

I wanted to ask some more things:
I will attach two pictures of the trunk. What am I missing? The jack and the wrench? Should I buy the missing parts from Toyota or someone else?
And on the same subject: I'm also missing all of the car mats. Do you recommend buying them from Toyota or will they cost a fortune and I'm better off buying them from Amazon?

Finally, the tyres are for the summer so they are not ideal right now but since we are already in mid February I don't know if it makes sense to change them now and then change them again in like 2/3 months.

Thank you all for the patience

[hind]

14 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

I will attach two pictures of the trunk. What am I missing? The jack and the wrench? Should I buy the missing parts from Toyota or someone else?

I can see you have tyre repair kit, so jack and wrench are not required because you cannot change your damaged wheel to anything else 😉 that means that you will need to call roadside assistance so they can pull your car to the mechanic = you still won't make any use of the jack or the wrench. 

Check if the tyre repair kit is complete (for the reference see https://mag.toyota.co.uk/how-to-use-a-tyre-repair-kit/ ) 

14 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

Finally, the tyres are for the summer so they are not ideal right now but since we are already in mid February I don't know if it makes sense to change them now and then change them again in like 2/3 months.

It's really up to you as you are the one deciding if your tyre set is fit for the current conditions outside. Location matters a lot 🙂  and also the possibility to leave the car at home if the winter attacks suddenly 🙂  

If the winter is mild then the all season set might be good (you can consider selling the ones you have right now and buying complete set of all season ones). Because of my location (northern Poland) meaning we have a real winter (with temperatures dropping to -15 oC and moderate snowfall) and a real summer (with the temperatures reaching 30 oC), I decided to buy another set of wheels and a service jack (the bigger hydraulic one, not the screw type for the trunk) which makes it really easy to change the wheels (takes me around 30 minutes to do the complete set). Of course the cost is much bigger (4 complete wheels) but if you like doing something around your car and you have a place to store the wheels, this is fairly easy and saves you a trip to the mechanic + a price you have to pay for the change.

Of course this is really a personal preference.

[jimaros]

16 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

Hi guys!

So, I might have fixed the second vibration:
the first time I got the car I noticed a little plastic cap on the floor. I kept it but wanted the garage to fix it wherever it was supposed to be.
During the weekend I closely examined the car and I found where the cap fell off, I put it back there and for the moment I didn't experienced that vibration.

I also checked the fluids and I think that I'm good until the service. Engine coolant is not full but still halfway.
I couldn't properly access the brake fluid without taking apart other things so the best I could manage was to open the cap and with a little stick I tried to check the level.
I eventually found out that there is another cap (if I'm not mistaken) so I probably just touched some of the residual that was on top of it. I guess.
I was already scared enough by "messing" with the brake liquid so I did not proceed further.
So basically I don't know. From the outside it seems like there is a slightly blue liquid inside but if I try to move the thing I can't see any movement.

Speaking of brakes I will have them checked because they are quite rusty. I think that the Toyota service will anyway include that.
Anyway the car was given to me right after it successfully passed the annual "legal" check/test (don't know how to call it, we call it "collaudo").
In this test they are mostly concerned by safety (and emission? probably) things so they don't check for you engine oil for example but if the brakes were not okay it wouldn't have passed.

Tomorrow I'll call again the dealership since they still haven't answered me about the service and a test drive.

I wanted to ask some more things:
I will attach two pictures of the trunk. What am I missing? The jack and the wrench? Should I buy the missing parts from Toyota or someone else?
And on the same subject: I'm also missing all of the car mats. Do you recommend buying them from Toyota or will they cost a fortune and I'm better off buying them from Amazon?

Finally, the tyres are for the summer so they are not ideal right now but since we are already in mid February I don't know if it makes sense to change them now and then change them again in like 2/3 months.

Thank you all for the patience

You are NOT missing anything. This is a repair set where you put a 🤮 white fluid inside the deflating tyre and then you take it up to pressure with the provided electric pump. 

If you think you are missing ONLY jack and wrench 🔧 then you probably MISSED the spare tyre that you DON'T have.

[allanmcfish]

8 hours ago, hind said:

I can see you have tyre repair kit, so jack and wrench are not required because you cannot change your damaged wheel to anything else 😉 that means that you will need to call roadside assistance so they can pull your car to the mechanic = you still won't make any use of the jack or the wrench. 

Check if the tyre repair kit is complete (for the reference see https://mag.toyota.co.uk/how-to-use-a-tyre-repair-kit/ ) 

It's really up to you as you are the one deciding if your tyre set is fit for the current conditions outside. Location matters a lot 🙂  and also the possibility to leave the car at home if the winter attacks suddenly 🙂  

If the winter is mild then the all season set might be good (you can consider selling the ones you have right now and buying complete set of all season ones). Because of my location (northern Poland) meaning we have a real winter (with temperatures dropping to -15 oC and moderate snowfall) and a real summer (with the temperatures reaching 30 oC), I decided to buy another set of wheels and a service jack (the bigger hydraulic one, not the screw type for the trunk) which makes it really easy to change the wheels (takes me around 30 minutes to do the complete set). Of course the cost is much bigger (4 complete wheels) but if you like doing something around your car and you have a place to store the wheels, this is fairly easy and saves you a trip to the mechanic + a price you have to pay for the change.

Of course this is really a personal preference.

Thank you! In the next days I will check if I have everything in the kit!

As for the tyres I decided that for the time being I will not change them. I'll wait until next winter.
Most people here in my climate use all season tyres because we surely do not have conditions like yours.
On the other hand I never thought about selling them so I might look into that!
 

7 hours ago, jimaros said:

You are NOT missing anything. This is a repair set where you put a 🤮 white fluid inside the deflating tyre and then you take it up to pressure with the provided electric pump. 

If you think you are missing ONLY jack and wrench 🔧 then you probably MISSED the spare tyre that you DON'T have.

There's no need to be rude. I am not stupid enough not to have noticed that I'm missing the spare tyre.
I never used the kit, I don't know how to use it.
With that said how could I naturally assume that you don't need to remove the deflated tyre to work on it?
I see empty spaces in the trunk. I ask.
 

[MikeSh]

8 hours ago, hind said:

that means that you will need to call roadside assistance so they can pull your car to the mechanic

If the repair kit works then he won't need to call assistance. What would be the point of these kits if they never worked?

 

7 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

Thank you! In the next days I will check if I have everything in the kit!

The can with the sealant will probably have an expiry date, so check that. You may need to replace it if you would use it (rather than calling assistance as your first action).

 

8 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

I see empty spaces in the trunk. I ask.

Quite right. If you don't know why it's natural to wonder.

There are no stupid questions.

[allanmcfish]

27 minutes ago, MikeSh said:

If the repair kit works then he won't need to call assistance. What would be the point of these kits if they never worked?

 

The can with the sealant will probably have an expiry date, so check that. You may need to replace it if you would use it (rather than calling assistance as your first action).

 

Quite right. If you don't know why it's natural to wonder.

There are no stupid questions.

Thank you.

I will keep an eye on the expiry date, thanks!

 

Regarding the service: today I called them and they were more helpful than last time.
Generally speaking they are available testing the car and taking a closer look but it is the workshop foreman (is it the right word?) that does it.
Unfortunately I had already booked the service for a Saturday and the foreman it's there only during the week.
If I had to reschedule the service it would have been even later in the month.

So as of now I'm going to take it to the regular service, explain to the mechanic and see what comes out.
If needed I will then have it checked by the foreman.

At this point I just need to wait I guess.

Actually, inspired by some older post that I have been checking: would it be helpful to you if I recorded a cold start with the bonnet open?
Would it tell you something helpful about the operation of my engine and eventual problems or, since it is a cold start, it would be difficult to distinguish it from a "typical" cold start?
I'm referring to a post where someone (TonyHSD if I'm remembering correctly) pointed out a misfire but also said that it somewhat normal in that situation.

Thank you all, as always!

[hind]

7 hours ago, MikeSh said:

he won't need to call assistance

Unless it's a side wall damage or deep cut? These kits are good for a nail damage

[Roy124]

If your sealant can is the same as mine was, you attach the can hose to the tyre valve and the pump to the can.  Plug the pump lead into the 12v socket and switch on the Ready mode.

Switch on the pump which should then pump the foam into the tyre.  Once inflated follow the instructions which will typically require you to drive the car, not exceeding a given speed, for a given distance.

It would then be advisable to recheck the pressure as there may have been further leakage of air.

Also, besides checking the date, check if the foam might have been used before.  I don't know if it is sufficient to inflate one tyre or more.

In UK we can buy a small size (or large size) pressurised repair can where you don't need to use the pump.  These are much less expensive than the Toyota can which requires the pump. I used my can to correct a slow leak about 20 years ago.  I used the last of the foam on a tyre last year.

NB - this all applies to the kit I was given, yours may be different.

[MikeSh]

5 hours ago, hind said:

Unless it's a side wall damage or deep cut? These kits are good for a nail damage

Which is why I said "if it works". These days I'd think it's more likely it will since the products have probably improved and tpms means running flat, which is often why the sidewalls would be damaged, shouldn't happen so often.

[allanmcfish]

Hi everyone, sorry for the delay.

I had the car serviced and I also went back a week later and got one of the mechanics to drive it.
At the service the guy at the front desk said the shaking is because the engine is constantly transitioning between combustion and electric and that is why I feel it more when I'm at the end of the 'ECO' zone.
The mechanic said it is the EGR that does it. He also drove it like a madman so I don't know what he could've caught during the drive.

So basically for the both of them this is normal.

I think that I could accept the fact that it is normal for this car and that overall the car is not as smooth as I would expect but it baffles me that, if this is indeed normal, there is basically no one reporting it on forums etc.. so I'm still a little bit unsure.

Generally speaking my perception now is that this model, not mine specifically, is not that great.
There is the shaking, the kick whenever the engine starts, random 'plastic' vibrations inside the cockpit.
Not to speak of the !Removed! stability control that kicks in over minor bumps and extends the braking zone by a lot. This is probably the worst thing of all. It is not pleasant at all.

I'm still on the 'convinced' side about Toyota and hybrids but I would not buy this car again.

[Paul john]

14 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

Hi everyone, sorry for the delay.

I had the car serviced and I also went back a week later and got one of the mechanics to drive it.
At the service the guy at the front desk said the shaking is because the engine is constantly transitioning between combustion and electric and that is why I feel it more when I'm at the end of the 'ECO' zone.
The mechanic said it is the EGR that does it. He also drove it like a madman so I don't know what he could've caught during the drive.

So basically for the both of them this is normal.

I think that I could accept the fact that it is normal for this car and that overall the car is not as smooth as I would expect but it baffles me that, if this is indeed normal, there is basically no one reporting it on forums etc.. so I'm still a little bit unsure.

Generally speaking my perception now is that this model, not mine specifically, is not that great.
There is the shaking, the kick whenever the engine starts, random 'plastic' vibrations inside the cockpit.
Not to speak of the !Removed! stability control that kicks in over minor bumps and extends the braking zone by a lot. This is probably the worst thing of all. It is not pleasant at all.

I'm still on the 'convinced' side about Toyota and hybrids but I would not buy this car again.

The stability control “slippyness” can be fixed with stickier tyres

[Stevie J]

Mine is not a hybrid, but has a similar issue in that about 10 minutes after a cold start when driving at a constant speed with just enough throttle to maintain that steady speed, the car appears to be jerky and does not drive smoothly, almost as if the engine is having intermittant misfiring - but this is only at steady throttle, once the accelerator is pressed down more the engine picks up and there is no jerking, nor on slowing down. As far as I am concerned, if there was an issue with the engine to be causing the jerkiness, the EML would illuminate and the ECU would set a fault code, but this has never happened.

I have had similar on cars in the past that have operated by "drive by wire" throttle control (where there is no direct cable link from the accelerator pedal to the throttle body). I have put it down to either the electronic throttle body not quite keeping the throttle open exactly evenly when maintaining steady speed and light throttle, or it may be the result of the EGR valve pulsing exhaust gas through to the inlet manifold causing uneven running, or it could be the EVAP solenoid pumping fuel tank excess vapour through to the engine. It is not really very ideal, and I would have expected better, but I have read other posts on here in the past that have highlighted slightly rough running at part throttle. I guess it is the price you pay for the car constantly trying to reduce fuel consumption wherever it can.

[allanmcfish]

Yes I guess that this is just the way that it is.

[Hadrian1]

I haven't read all of the posts so someone might have already suggested this.

If you haven't already done so, get the car checked over by a Toyota dealer or specialist.

[MikeSh]

28 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

, if this is indeed normal, there is basically no one reporting it on forums etc.. so I'm still a little bit unsure.

Generally speaking my perception now is that this model, not mine specifically, is not that great

I don't know how you got from the first bit to the conclusion. As you say, there aren't other reports or complaints about this, so it seems likely it is your car specifically, not the model. (Or perhaps it's you 🙂 ). Mine, albeit a bit newer and much less km, is fine - except when stopped the only way I know if the engine is running is from the EV light.

That the garage aren't interesting in chasing it down is no surprise for a few reasons.

[allanmcfish]

1 hour ago, MikeSh said:

I don't know how you got from the first bit to the conclusion. As you say, there aren't other reports or complaints about this, so it seems likely it is your car specifically, not the model. (Or perhaps it's you 🙂 ). Mine, albeit a bit newer and much less km, is fine - except when stopped the only way I know if the engine is running is from the EV light.

That the garage aren't interesting in chasing it down is no surprise for a few reasons.

Yes, my bad, you are right.

I'm just disappointed and exhausted about this.

[MikeSh]

20 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

I'm just disappointed and exhausted about this.

I'm sure I'd feel the same. It's frustrating.

[Cyker]

I wonder if it's a similar thing that I noticed in my first Yaris D4D - At certain loads and RPM there would be a very noticeable juddering if I held it there - Usually I'd just accelerate through it and it would go away.

The operating theory was it was some sort of resonance with the friction plate damper at those specific loads and rpm, and indeed after I had a clutch change, it went away, although before I sold it to my brother years later it had started to come back, albeit at a slightly different load and rpm.

The hybrids have a damper plate which is constructed very similarly to a clutch's friction plate damper, and I wonder if it's a similar thing? I've not noticed it in my Mk4 hybrid, but it's only 3 years old, but the damper springs are probably getting on a bit in yours which may be why it's more noticeable...?

I'm not sure if the damper plate can be changed easily - It's right in the heart of the hybrid system and looks like it'd be a huge amount of work...

[allanmcfish]

8 hours ago, Cyker said:

I wonder if it's a similar thing that I noticed in my first Yaris D4D - At certain loads and RPM there would be a very noticeable juddering if I held it there - Usually I'd just accelerate through it and it would go away.

The operating theory was it was some sort of resonance with the friction plate damper at those specific loads and rpm, and indeed after I had a clutch change, it went away, although before I sold it to my brother years later it had started to come back, albeit at a slightly different load and rpm.

The hybrids have a damper plate which is constructed very similarly to a clutch's friction plate damper, and I wonder if it's a similar thing? I've not noticed it in my Mk4 hybrid, but it's only 3 years old, but the damper springs are probably getting on a bit in yours which may be why it's more noticeable...?

I'm not sure if the damper plate can be changed easily - It's right in the heart of the hybrid system and looks like it'd be a huge amount of work...

Interesting! Thank you for sharing this.

Are there maybe other symptoms that might be caused by this dumper plate? I'm thinking for example about the 'kick' that I feel most of the times the ICU turns on.

[MikeSh]

53 minutes ago, allanmcfish said:

I'm thinking for example about the 'kick' that I feel most of the times the ICU turns on.

As said before, when the car is stationary, and especially if you haven't got the footbrake applied, then it does kick a bit as the engine is started. Shouldn't be noticeable when travelling.

You need to be specific about exactly what the conditions are when any given symptom occurs. The ICE goes on or off in many different scenarios.

[TonyHSD]

15 hours ago, allanmcfish said:

Interesting! Thank you for sharing this.

Are there maybe other symptoms that might be caused by this dumper plate? I'm thinking for example about the 'kick' that I feel most of the times the ICU turns on.

The kick is normal, sometimes accompanied by a thud, however the vibrations or knocking are not. 
Usually hybrids although the damper clutch looks like a manual transmission clutch, it is so slightly different in operation, it is constantly engaged and the clutch plates can only slip when the torque exceed the normal values the system is designed to withstand so the clutch prevents breaking of the crankshaft or planetary gear set. In any other cases the springs are there to dampen the torque transmission or difference between engine and electric motors. The thud that comes in sometimes especially on a fast acceleration from standstill is the result of fully loaded springs of the damper clutch., this is also normal. 
 

[RickyC]

On 4/27/2024 at 7:37 PM, allanmcfish said:

Hi everyone, sorry for the delay.

I had the car serviced and I also went back a week later and got one of the mechanics to drive it.
 

What did the change during the service? 

Oil + Filter ( which oil grade did they put ? ) surely

Air filter?

Check tyre pressure because I've noted they've the habit to over inflate them.  It reduces a bit power consumption but car looses a bit of stability.

Have you succesfully passed the Hybrid Check ?

[nasamorpheus]

On 4/27/2024 at 7:37 PM, allanmcfish said:

Hi everyone, sorry for the delay.

I had the car serviced and I also went back a week later and got one of the mechanics to drive it.
At the service the guy at the front desk said the shaking is because the engine is constantly transitioning between combustion and electric and that is why I feel it more when I'm at the end of the 'ECO' zone.
The mechanic said it is the EGR that does it. He also drove it like a madman so I don't know what he could've caught during the drive.

So basically for the both of them this is normal.

I think that I could accept the fact that it is normal for this car and that overall the car is not as smooth as I would expect but it baffles me that, if this is indeed normal, there is basically no one reporting it on forums etc.. so I'm still a little bit unsure.

Generally speaking my perception now is that this model, not mine specifically, is not that great.
There is the shaking, the kick whenever the engine starts, random 'plastic' vibrations inside the cockpit.
Not to speak of the !Removed! stability control that kicks in over minor bumps and extends the braking zone by a lot. This is probably the worst thing of all. It is not pleasant at all.

I'm still on the 'convinced' side about Toyota and hybrids but I would not buy this car again.

I have same experience as you, 2020 , mk3 , 85.000 km.  Sometimes there is shaking when engine kicks in but not always. Also when Battery is almost empty, engine is much more strange, let's say noisy. Random plastic vibration is also present, when I open door it squeeke like there is no tomorrow 🙂 very bad interior quality. Also stability control kicks in over minor bumps and extends the braking zone by a lot. 🙂 What can we do, it's **** car but I still like it. Most of the time it's good to drive across town. Avoid hills, it's terrible to drive there. Also brakes can be very loud, very noisy when they get warm downhill. Also B mode is terrible downhill, engine is roaring like crazy. It's love and hate, I hate this car but on the other side I like it if this make sense.

[allanmcfish]

22 hours ago, MikeSh said:

As said before, when the car is stationary, and especially if you haven't got the footbrake applied, then it does kick a bit as the engine is started. Shouldn't be noticeable when travelling.

You need to be specific about exactly what the conditions are when any given symptom occurs. The ICE goes on or off in many different scenarios.

 

7 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

The kick is normal, sometimes accompanied by a thud, however the vibrations or knocking are not. 
Usually hybrids although the damper clutch looks like a manual transmission clutch, it is so slightly different in operation, it is constantly engaged and the clutch plates can only slip when the torque exceed the normal values the system is designed to withstand so the clutch prevents breaking of the crankshaft or planetary gear set. In any other cases the springs are there to dampen the torque transmission or difference between engine and electric motors. The thud that comes in sometimes especially on a fast acceleration from standstill is the result of fully loaded springs of the damper clutch., this is also normal. 
 

Oh I can definitely notice it even when driving. I feel it most of the times the ICU kicks in. Especially when it is a none to mild acceleration, meaning that I'm driving in EV and I slowly reach the non EV zone I feel the engine turn on and usually also a slight acceleration, something like a slight 'pull'. Sorry if I'm not expressing it better.

This is for the 'kick', not the vibrations.

Like I said the vibrations are usually when driving steady speeds or, like I recently noticed, during slow deceleration (when I'm in non EV and suddenly lift the gas and let it decelerate).

This are some examples and not entirely 100% reproducible.

But I don't know, especially for the kick and the slight pull, I might be over fixating right now by giving it so much attention.

5 hours ago, RickyC said:

What did the change during the service? 

Oil + Filter ( which oil grade did they put ? ) surely

Air filter?

Check tyre pressure because I've noted they've the habit to over inflate them.  It reduces a bit power consumption but car looses a bit of stability.

Have you succesfully passed the Hybrid Check ?

Hybrid check has passed OK.

They changed spark plugs, oil and air filter, brake liquid, engine cleaner, carbon filter (?), fuel 'protector' (?), an unspecified seal and all the other minor things (wipers things etc).

Descriptions don't say the oil grade, I have the part numbers if you want.

I'm translating from the Italian so I don't know the right words.

Tyres they didnt do anything besides warning me that the rear axle was 8 (!!) years old. I had them changed by my tyres guy.

3 minutes ago, nasamorpheus said:

I have same experience as you, 2020 , mk3 , 85.000 km.  Sometimes there is shaking when engine kicks in but not always. Also when battery is almost empty, engine is much more strange, let's say noisy. Random plastic vibration is also present, when I open door it squeeke like there is no tomorrow 🙂 very bad interior quality. Also stability control kicks in over minor bumps and extends the braking zone by a lot. 🙂 What can we do, it's **** car but I still like it. Most of the time it's good to drive across town. Avoid hills, it's terrible to drive there. Also brakes can be very loud, very noisy when they get warm downhill. Also B mode is terrible downhill, engine is roaring like crazy. It's love and hate, I hate this car but on the other side I like it if this make sense.

As for door I think every hybrid Toyota does it, at least our Auris does the same. I think it is something on the brakes because it does the exact same noise when you use the regular brakes for a mild to heavy deceleration.

About the stabilty control I think that it extends the braking zone because it completely disable regen brake so you have to press further. But I might be wrong.

I also noticed the engine struggling more when Battery is low. The worst has happened a couple of times in heavy traffic where I completely drain the Battery without any regen. The ICU turns on like crazy but doesn't recharge much and turns off again. So it stays in this loop until traffic flows and you can go back to normal.