Driverless Cars.

[Bper]

The UK government recently announced plans to have driverless cars on the roads by 2025, backed by new legislation and significant funding. The rollout will start with self-driving features on motorways, expanding to full autonomous operation by 2026. This initiative aims to boost the economy, create jobs, and improve road safety by reducing human error.Is the 2025 timeline realistic and does this address the safety concerns many have.How will driverless cars impact daily commutes and transportation.?

 

[Cyker]

Ahaha, ahahahaha, hahahahahahaha!  

[Ex Tiff]

Probably produce the same road safety improvements as 'smart' motorways methinks.

[Bper]

35 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Ahaha, ahahahaha, hahahahahahaha!  

Cyker I totally agree with the sentiment but I was amazed at the amount of people who support the implementation of driverless cars. It's pretty obvious that whatever Government is in power they are going to push for  this irrespective of public opposition..

But irrespective it raises questions as to potential problems it could cause.As an example lorry drivers, taxi drivers, and others in the transportation sector could be impacted. There might be a need for retraining programs to help these individuals who will have to transition to new roles.

Self driving cars will have to make split second decisions in unavoidable accidents. Who or what gets prioritised? These situations raise complex ethical questions.These vehicles collect a lot of data, including location and sensor information. Data security and privacy regulations will be crucial to protecting consumer information.These are  just a few.

[Cyker]

I'm waiting for when people Wile E Coyote them into walls and off bridges and stuff  

Only today I traversed a 3-lane wide road with no road markings (They'd all been rubbed off), one where the traffic light had been twisted round by some vandals, and one where the speed signs had also been turned around - I'd love to see how an AI-driven car could deal with those situations  

 

[Primus1]

I think that’s why all these safety systems like lane keep sign recognition ect are being fitted to cars it’s all so it can be fine tuned for driverless cars, 

[Paul john]

Until a driverless car can solve the “Trolley Problem” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

I’m keeping my hands on the wheel.  

[Bper]

28 minutes ago, Paul john said:

Until a driverless car can solve the “Trolley Problem” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

I’m keeping my hands on the wheel.  

Hi Paul, AI would aim to sacrifice the few to save the many.Would a person not do the same.?.

[Paul john]

36 minutes ago, Bper said:

Hi Paul, AI would aim to sacrifice the few to save the many.Would a person not do the same.?.

Depends if you look at trolley problem 2 where the single person is a mother with a pram

[Cyker]

They can't because they can't do what a human would do - Pick the hidden 3rd option!

[Primus1]

The people who design and want to implement driverless cars…have you not seen the terminator films..?

[Roy124]

Which Government?

[Roy124]

As with the speed issue you will be mixing the haves with the have nots.

The proper interval between cars will be observed by the SDC which may be between 1 and 2 arrows as Toyota offer now based on 'faster' reaction times.  

As many drivers travel closer than that,  will they see the gap as and invitation to overtake?  I find lorries are *****rs for this even when it means they are then stuck behind the truck in front.

What will the SDC in lane 2 do in a 3 lane if lane 2 starts to slow down?  Will it look for a move into lane 3 to maintain a higher speed?

[Haliotis]

13 hours ago, Cyker said:

Ahaha, ahahahaha, hahahahahahaha!  

Sadly, this reaction sums it up very well.  The various agencies in favour of driverless cars always play upon their conviction that superior AI will keep the roads safer.  Whilst we all know that some drivers are idiots, the true facts are that most drivers are much more capable than we are led to believe, and these drivers are being insulted by the AI pundits.

Being deliberately ignored are the possible failings of roadside technology, and the vehicle system itself - whilst technology has become extremely reliable, there is still no such thing as absolute infallibility, and this would be a very necessary requirement for driverless vehicles AND the whole operating network.  Also, the ongoing charges for the car owner has not yet been mentioned - but I think it would be considerable.  Ongoing, too, would be the absolute necessity for the system (vehicles and network) to be maintained to faultless standards at all times - another increase in costs to the car owners.

Not yet mentioned is the high risks possible due to vandalism of roadside installations - evidence of this shows up on a daily basis, and the AI installations would be equally vulnerable.  Imagine something as simple as a camera lens being painted out!

AI pundits - dream on!!!

[Bper]

11 hours ago, Paul john said:

Until a driverless car can solve the “Trolley Problem” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

I’m keeping my hands on the wheel.  

Hi Paul,SDC AI should prioritise safety and avoid any situations where harm is unavoidable. Ideally, it wouldn't have to make these split second, life or death decisions.

One idea might involve programming the car to minimise casualties statistically. In a situation like the trolley problem, it could choose the path with the fewest potential deaths, even if it involves the mother and child. However this obviously raises some ethical concerns.

There are ongoing discussions about making AI decision making in SDC transparent. This could involve setting guidelines for how the car prioritises safety in unavoidable situations. As AI technology advances, ethical considerations become even more important. The trolley problem variations can help developers create AI that makes responsible choices in unpredictable situations.

While there's no perfect solution, the trolley problem helps to understand the complexities of moral dilemmas, both for humans and for AI systems in development. The goal for SDC should be to prevent such situations entirely through better sensor technology and hazard avoidance programming. However, ongoing development and discussions can help resolve how these systems handle these complex situations.It certainly raises a lot of questions.

[Mjolinor]

 

Let's change the problem slightly:

Run over a person or veer left over the cliff.

Will it self preserve?

Scary.

[Roy124]

5 minutes ago, Mjolinor said:

 

Let's change the problem slightly:

Run over a person or veer left over the cliff.

Will it self preserve?

Scary.

Are you a rocket scientist on the cusp of a revolutionary goal or an old part near end of life?

[Bper]

3 hours ago, Primus1 said:

The people who design and want to implement driverless cars…have you not seen the terminator films..?

Alan, can't answer this at the moment but,  I'll be back

[Roy124]

Different question; I was travelling at 70 mph on a dual carriageway in traffic at similar speeds.

The car incorrectly recognised 40 mph as the correct limit.  The speed warning switched to Red and the audio warning sounded (new model).

What do you do?

What would the SDC do?

The first answer is obvious, less so the second.

If the SDC immediately obeys the new 'limit' it will initiate a speed reduction thus causing bunching at best and collision at worst.  If, OTOH, it prioritises traffic flow over RSR, it will condone speeding. 

[yossarian247]

15 hours ago, Bper said:

How will driverless cars impact daily commutes and transportation.?

 

Unfortunate choice of word, but probably quite accurate.

[Bper]

11 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Different question; I was travelling at 70 mph on a dual carriageway in traffic at similar speeds.

The car incorrectly recognised 40 mph as the correct limit.  The speed warning switched to Red and the audio warning sounded (new model).

What do you do?

What would the SDC do?

The first answer is obvious, less so the second.

If the SDC immediately obeys the new 'limit' it will initiate a speed reduction thus causing bunching at best and collision at worst.  If, OTOH, it prioritises traffic flow over RSR, it will condone speeding. 

Hi Roy, perhaps the ideal SDC response would be to balance safety and traffic flow. It might utilise multiple data sources to verify speed limits.Adapt to real time traffic conditions.Prioritise safety by avoiding sudden braking or maneuvers that could cause accidents.

As SDC technology is still under development, and handling situations like this would have to be considered along with rigorous testing in various driving scenarios to ensure SDCs react appropriately to unexpected situations.Good question.

[Bper]

22 minutes ago, yossarian247 said:

Unfortunate choice of word, but probably quite accurate.

Hi Nick,Unfortunate choice of word, but probably quite accurate. With driverless cars, at least when they crash into something,they can blame the software update instead of bad driving.

[yossarian247]

11 minutes ago, Bper said:

Hi Nick,Unfortunate choice of word, but probably quite accurate. With driverless cars, at least when they crash into something,they can blame the software update instead of bad driving.

Imagine the phone calls to software support:

"Help! My car keeps crashing!"

"Have you tried opening and closing the Windows?"

"Yes, then I looked in the boot partition but there was nothing in there except an ice scraper and an old umbrella.."

[Roy124]

28 minutes ago, Bper said:

Hi Roy, perhaps the ideal SDC response would be to balance safety and traffic flow. It might utilise multiple data sources to verify speed limits.Adapt to real time traffic conditions.Prioritise safety by avoiding sudden braking or maneuvers that could cause accidents.

As SDC technology is still under development, and handling situations like this would have to be considered along with rigorous testing in various driving scenarios to ensure SDCs react appropriately to unexpected situations.Good question.

Good solution regarding sudden braking but multiple sources cannot override a speed sign.  We can recognise the I correct identification but could the SDC logic?

In the case actual case I mentioned,  I could see why the 40 mph sign was wrong.  AI might, on a balance of probabilities case, might assess that other traffic had not reacted AND there was a logical reason, such as a slip road, to ignore the lower limit.

OTOH there are several instances where drivers wilfully ignore temporary limits when they can see no reason.  In Lincolnshire there are two instances, one is a long stretch on the A15 at RAF Waddington and the other is Anglican Water who are laying new pipes in the fields and I have never seen them working on the road. 

 

[Bper]

13 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Good solution regarding sudden braking but multiple sources cannot override a speed sign.  We can recognise the I correct identification but could the SDC logic?

In the case actual case I mentioned,  I could see why the 40 mph sign was wrong.  AI might, on a balance of probabilities case, might assess that other traffic had not reacted AND there was a logical reason, such as a slip road, to ignore the lower limit.

OTOH there are several instances where drivers wilfully ignore temporary limits when they can see no reason.  In Lincolnshire there are two instances, one is a long stretch on the A15 at RAF Waddington and the other is Anglican Water who are laying new pipes in the fields and I have never seen them working on the road. 

 

Roy, AVs rely on programmed rules, but real world situations can be difficult. For example, a 40 mph limit might not reflect a safe speed due to a nearby slip road. The challenge AVs need to balance following rules with real time factors like traffic flow and weather.

Machine learning could help AVs learn to adapt to these situations. Complete open decision making would build trust and allow for human intervention if needed.

The future of AVs lies in combining clear rules with the ability to respond to real world situations, ultimately leading to safe and reliable autonomous driving.