myothercarisawarthog Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Dont get fooled - the 1.2t is not much faster than the hybrid - it may even be a little slower - as shown perfectly by that video link! To anyone watching that video and thinking it's a good test, well, it isn't- note that the hybrid is being speed tested in "eco mode" (oh the irony) - Eco mode is purposely designed to limit the acceleration to save fuel! If they had tested the hybrid in the responsive power mode im more sure than ever it would have beaten the 1.2t to 100kph particularly since the Hybrid (in eco mode) was only slower than the 1.2t by 0.4 seconds!!! Looking at the figures in the video now - 1.2t: 0-50 kph 3.6 seconds 0-100 kph 11 seconds Hybrid: 0-50 kph 4 seconds 0-100 kph 11.4 seconds However - The hybrid accelerated from 40-100kph in 8 seconds. The 1.2t accelerated from 40-100kph in 8.6 seconds. So the Hybrid was the faster of the two engines for the majority of the test - it just had a slower start off the mark than the 1.2t did (because the hybrid was suffocated by eco mode which is designed to create slow starts off the mark! It should have been tested in its responsive power mode!!! As an aside - Theres nothing wrong with eco mode - it's a brilliant concept - except when you're using it in a speed test comparison! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nielshm Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I've made 2 video showing my 1.2T CVT in normal driving conditions. Plenty of videos show the 0-100 sprint, pedal to the metal, but there are allmost none, that shows how CVT operates in every day driving. Unlike the hybrids that I've tried som far, the car never goes above 4000 rpm's unless I forces it to do so. Todays weather conditions is 0 degree Celcius, and on the motorway with headwind approx. 7 m/sec. I've keept the car in ECO instead of Sport mode, to simulate the Hybrid the best way possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooly Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Thanks for posting that. I found it quite interesting tbh, especially as I've never driven anything other than a manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16_Auris_HSD Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Having never driven a regular CVT I'm surprised by how much less buzzy and nicer it is comparing to the eCVT hybrid arrangement. The revs increase in line with speed rather than sit at a certain level while the speed goes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nielshm Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 hours ago, 16_Auris_HSD said: Having never driven a regular CVT I'm surprised by how much less buzzy and nicer it is comparing to the eCVT hybrid arrangement. The revs increase in line with speed rather than sit at a certain level while the speed goes up. I had a damage to the front, and for 3 days I had a Yaris HSD instead. Ohhh boy, did I miss my own car right away? I know that Yaris and Auris can' be compared just like that, but in Yaris, the whole setup lacks power, Battery is too small, e-moter too weak, unless I drive extremly gentle, engine revs is between 75-100% in most of my accelerations on open road. The Auris HSD is a more powerfull car, but it's still pretty easy to make revs go high, too high. Within city limits, Auris HSD is a true champion, but out on open road with higher speed, things get more over-sensitive, and as a driver, you must focus on doing the right thing to get the best of the hybrid drivetrain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J. Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 4 hours ago, nielshm said: ..... but in Yaris, the whole setup lacks power, battery is too small, e-moter too weak, unless I drive extremly gentle, engine revs is between 75-100% in most of my accelerations on open road. The Yaris Hybrid does not lack power as the 0-32mph figure is 4 seconds (I suggest it is probably the fastest automatic supermini over this distance, BMW i3 excepted), but as it is a car for economy, the system's tendency is to encourage gentle acceleration. Note also that peak torque is higher than the BMW i3, it just doesn't last long! Via Torque Pro, I have logged 270Nm. Finally, in my experience, Auris Hybrids can't out accelerate a Yaris Hybrid . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nielshm Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Mike J. said: The Yaris Hybrid does not lack power as the 0-32mph figure is 4 seconds (I suggest it is probably the fastest automatic supermini over this distance, BMW i3 excepted), but as it is a car for economy, the system's tendency is to encourage gentle acceleration. Note also that peak torque is higher than the BMW i3, it just doesn't last long! Via Torque Pro, I have logged 270Nm. Finally, in my experience, Auris Hybrids can't out accelerate a Yaris Hybrid . Well, the only thing I learned is, that I can't drive a Yaris like my own Auris CVT - without revs running wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J. Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, nielshm said: Well, the only thing I learned is, that I can't drive a Yaris like my own Auris CVT - without revs running wild. To get 'performance' you do seem to have to floor it and in doing so, the revs go to 4800, giving max noise - I would imagine the Yaris has less sound insulation than larger Toyotas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpa Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 i will say once more and i will put real measurements from the 2 cars that the 1.2 is faster. Every car magazine says exactly the same. the hybrid seems faster, but the instruments and power box disagrees. Furthermore bear in mind that after 1-2 minutes win the pedal to the metal the hybrid becomes extremely slow as batteries are empty and cant help the car with extra power , while the 1.2 remains strong and fast. here are the numbers For the 1.2 turbo 0-100km/h 10,1sec top speed km/h 198 km/h ΚΜ/Η SEC 0-60 4,38 0-80 6,69 0-100 9,86 0-120 14,11 0-140 19,51 0-160 26,26 ΡΕΠΡΙΖ Ρεπρίζ 3ης 50-80 3,56 80-110 3,98 Ρεπρίζ 4ης 80-110 6,25 100-140 9,79 Ρεπρίζ 5ης 80-110 7,61 100-140 11,54 ΑΠΟΜΑΚΡΥΝΣΗ ΑΠΟ ΣΤΑΣΗ Μeters SEC @ ΚΜ/Η 18 2,79 45,28 60 5,43 70,37 100 7,31 83,50 200 11,05 107,04 400 17,21 131,50 for the hybrid 0-100km/h 10,9sec Top speed km/h 180 ΚΜ/Η SEC 0-60 4,48 0-80 6,96 0-100 10,23 0-120 14,49 0-140 20,08 0-160 27,02 ΡΕΠΡΙΖ Ρεπρίζ 3ης 50-80 3,55 80-110 4,42 Ρεπρίζ 4ης 80-110 6,38 100-140 9,49 Ρεπρίζ 5ης 80-110 6,29 100-140 11,74 ΑΠΟΜΑΚΡΥΝΣΗ ΑΠΟ ΣΤΑΣΗ Μeters SEC @ ΚΜ/Η 18 2,85 43,27 60 5,52 69,01 100 7,42 83,55 200 11,18 105,29 400 17,26 130,67 Last but not least Toyota admits that the 1.2 turbo is faster at the acceleration 0-60 miles and the 2 cars have more than 12 miles difference at top speed in favorite of the 1.2 turbo because batteries cant provide power. And when Germans say that 1.2 turbo is faster than their focus 1.0 ecoboost 125 ps, i guess they know something :) Please if anyone has real numbers to back up that hybrid is faster to enlighten us. numbers are in Km/h than Miles/hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROSTYBALLS Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Realistically one has to compare the 1.2T CVT to the Hybrid, as then you're comparing two automatics. Toyota GB's own figures quote the the 0-62 mph figures as 1.2T CVT hatchback 10.5 seconds and the Touring Sport as 10.8 Hybrid hatchback 10.9 seconds and the Touring Sport 11.2 Top speed isn't now quoted and in the UK is really academic anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J. Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Some excellent work getting the performance figures. Any chance of doing 0-50km/h as this is the sort of speed that the hybrids are good at - before the electric motor backs off. The official figures for the Yaris Hybrid is 4 seconds. When I initially got the car, I thought it was slow when accelerating from standstill, but a friend in a Nissan 350Z told me otherwise! I now notice that the performance is quite good. In the damp, the wheels spin from zero and then spin again when the petrol motor gives full power (all 270Nm on tap at this point) a few seconds later. As my car has done 60,000 miles, perhaps it is starting to loosen up . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eygo Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, gpa said: for the hybrid 0-100km/h 10,9sec Top speed km/h 180 ΚΜ/Η SEC 0-60 4,48 0-80 6,96 0-100 10,23 0-120 14,49 0-140 20,08 0-160 27,02 why are there 2 times for the hybrid 0 - 100km/h is 1 time when the batteries are full and 1 time when they are discharged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyker Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 What's the 60>70 times? Off the line, even my new gutless 1.33 Yaris feels pretty quick - It's the time when you pull out from the left lane and try to out-drag Eddie Stobart up a hill before the dual-carriageway turns back into a single is when you find out whether the engine has grunt or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16_Auris_HSD Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 20 hours ago, nielshm said: The Auris HSD is a more powerfull car, but it's still pretty easy to make revs go high, too high. Within city limits, Auris HSD is a true champion, but out on open road with higher speed, things get more over-sensitive, and as a driver, you must focus on doing the right thing to get the best of the hybrid drivetrain. I have to say I wouldn't mind a 1.2t with CVT since it seems very civilised, I do get why HSD goes into max rev mode but still it does feel a bit too much outside of built up areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nielshm Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 7 hours ago, 16_Auris_HSD said: I have to say I wouldn't mind a 1.2t with CVT since it seems very civilised, I do get why HSD goes into max rev mode but still it does feel a bit too much outside of built up areas. I think I'll make another video. 60-120 km/h with 3000 rpm + 4000 rpm + kick down. It will be easy to see, how the acceleration builds up, and when it starts to loose power. If some one with a hybrid could do the same thing, then the two setups could be compared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpa Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 To sum up, hybrid is perfect for the city, when you can make full use of the batteries power and saves a lot of fuel. The cons are that on open roads is noisy, fuel thirsty and has no consistency concerning power as it over increases rounds per minute to overtake, high rpms make it noisy and as a result consumes more fuel. Furthermore power drops rapidly as batteries become discharged. So mainly for city use hybrid, for trips and performance 1.2. That is why mother company offers the alternatives hybrid and turbo, and states clearly that turbo is faster than hybrid with official numbers and hybrid is less fuel thirsty. The only thing we dont know is how reliable the 1.2 turbo is as if you search the net there are many drivers who face problems with similar "downsized" turbo engines like Nissan 1.2 turbo and 1.0 VW group. So i have to ask. how mane miles have you done with 1.2 turbo? Has anyone had the car as a company car and made a lot of miles(60.000 for example?) That would be a truly useful info. P.S IN japan they state the 1.2 turbo engine as ENGINE FOR A LIFE, so i would like to gather info concerning mileage and possible problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nielshm Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, gpa said: To sum up, hybrid is perfect for the city, when you can make full use of the batteries power and saves a lot of fuel. The cons are that on open roads is noisy, fuel thirsty and has no consistency concerning power as it over increases rounds per minute to overtake, high rpms make it noisy and as a result consumes more fuel. Furthermore power drops rapidly as batteries become discharged. So mainly for city use hybrid, for trips and performance 1.2. That is why mother company offers the alternatives hybrid and turbo, and states clearly that turbo is faster than hybrid with official numbers and hybrid is less fuel thirsty. The only thing we dont know is how reliable the 1.2 turbo is as if you search the net there are many drivers who face problems with similar "downsized" turbo engines like Nissan 1.2 turbo and 1.0 VW group. So i have to ask. how mane miles have you done with 1.2 turbo? Has anyone had the car as a company car and made a lot of miles(60.000 for example?) That would be a truly useful info. P.S IN japan they state the 1.2 turbo engine as ENGINE FOR A LIFE, so i would like to gather info concerning mileage and possible problems. So far since april 2016, 33.000 miles and no problems of any kind. I use fuelsystem cleaner every 2.000 miles or so. My primary fuel is Shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16_Auris_HSD Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Is the 1.2t a pure DI engine or does it have direct and port injection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpa Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 http://toyota-club.net/files/faq/13-01-01_faq_nr-engine_eng.htm Here you can find in detail how many improvements the 1.2(8NR-FTS MOTOR) has. Go to the middle of the page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nielshm Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 7 hours ago, gpa said: http://toyota-club.net/files/faq/13-01-01_faq_nr-engine_eng.htm Here you can find in detail how many improvements the 1.2(8NR-FTS MOTOR) has. Go to the middle of the page. I asked a Toyota technician, why Toyota had waited so many years to develop a turbocharged engine. Back in the days, Toyota had attempted to make turbocharged diesel, maybe the Carina II. More or less, it was a rebuild petrol engine, and it was a total failure, all of them are gone today, and it scared Toyota away from beeing first mowers, they would rather wait some years, and then get every thing right. So I believe, that the nice little 1.2 is a trouble free masterpiece, build to last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidfirst Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, nielshm said: I asked a Toyota technician, why Toyota had waited so many years to develop a turbocharged engine. Toyota has been making turbo petrols since at least the 80s ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpa Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 22 minutes ago, Heidfirst said: Toyota has been making turbo petrols since at least the 80s ... My friend. Indeed Toyota had made 2.0 turbo engines( celica carlos sainz) or a glanza one in toyota starlet 20 years ago. But back then the air/fuel ration could be as rich as Toyota wanted and euro restrictions did nor exist(usually they used a/f ration from 12:1 to 10.1 full throttle. (that means for every 12 particles of air we use one particle of fuel) A rich fuel ration was used to cool down the engine and keep temps low. furthermore engines didn't suffer from detonation. Nowadays, to pass euro6 they have to stay at 15:1-16:1 due to very strict emissions. So the poor a/f ration increases temps in the combustion chamber, making the engine to detonate like crazy thus more prone to failure. if we could program the ecu of the car and didn't care about emissions, power would climb to approximately 155hp and more than 250nm of torgue from a 1197 engine. Impressive right? Neverteless Toyota decided to plays it safe and environmentally friendly, that's why the engines seem very reliable. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROSTYBALLS Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 .... and of course Daihatsu, which Toyota has had a controlling interest in since 1967 before becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of Toyota in 2016, has had small capacity turbocharged engines (547cc upwards) since 1983. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpa Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 9 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said: .... and of course Daihatsu, which Toyota has had a controlling interest in since 1967 before becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of Toyota in 2016, has had small capacity turbocharged engines (547cc upwards) since 1983. That is correct sir :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyker Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Woo, gotta love those Kei cars with their tiny engines turbo'd to the moon! (At least before the govs noticed that little loophole and changed the regs! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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