Yaris Hybrid 2020 TNGA - Hybrid System Malfunction

[RickyC]

2 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

 

So could the cracks be caused by the 'highly corrosive acids'?

Correct. 

The issue seems affecting all new Dynamic Force engines ( 1.5 3 cyl, 2.0 and 2.5 ) and not old technolgy ones ( 1.5 4 cyl  and 1.8 )

According to what impacted customers report in forums and FB the Toyota Italy rejects warranty claims of dealers due to a suspect ( but without proof ) presence of chlorine in fuel.

As far I've understood the exaust gas contaisn residual clorine ( or other corrosive compound ) that attacks the EGR cooler pipe causing cracks in the cooling fluid pipe.  So there's a leakage of cooling fluid in EGR pipe that ends to damage also EGR valve.

Probably is something similar to the issue on diesel engines that have been recently recalled ( even if Italian market was not affected by this recall, probably because Toyota Italy has stopped selling diesel cars since many years ) 

[Mikw]

7 hours ago, elizac said:

Hello everyone, the problem in Italy is very big. Toyota Italy claims that is a chlorine problem in petrol but does not prove it and does not pass the replacement of the radiator and the egr valve under warranty. Come and see this fb page: "Toyota Hybrid and EGR valve problem"
https://www.facebook.com/groups/889368591881554/

Is this problem specific to E10 fuel, or is it both E5 and E10 fulled cars that have this issue?

[RickyC]

In Italy fuel is normally RON95 E5 at least for the official brands.  I've never seen E10.  

Anyway I think that in other EU countries ( e.g Germany ) E10 fuel is available.  But I'm not aware of a similar issue on other markets ( except the case of Nixy that lives in Greece ). 

 

[TonyHSD]

28 minutes ago, RickyC said:

In Italy fuel is normally RON95 E5 at least for the official brands.  I've never seen E10.  

Anyway I think that in other EU countries ( e.g Germany ) E10 fuel is available.  But I'm not aware of a similar issue on other markets ( except the case of Nixy that lives in Greece ). 

 

That’s strange, perhaps it’s something else like the overall quality of the fuel or something that causes issues on direct injection engines, if older type like Prius 1.8 are not affected. Many years ago in Russia Mitsubishi had stopped selling cars equipped with gdi engines for similar reasons as far as I remember. 

[Cyker]

The USA have had E10 for ages and I've not heard of such issues in their TNGA cars...

I suspect it's a fuel contamination problem, like that fiasco we had in 2007 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_Kingdom_petrol_contamination

... rather than an issue with the engines specifically. They may be more sensitive to contaminated fuel than older engines in the same way old diesel engines will run on practically anything but newer ones only run on highly refined diesel or they break.

[Nixy]

Toyota Greece has fixed this problem free of charge. This EGR recall has also been referred to by the official EU recalls site. In my opinion, it is a faulty material's problem. 

[RickyC]

@NixyAs far as I know the recall campaign for defective EGR refers to some diesel models and not to new cars with HSD gasoline engines.

In your repair bill there's some reference to a recall campaign ?

I've just checked my VIN on Toyota EU recall site and there's no active recall for my car ( Yaris IV )

[flash22]

@Nixy

please see the replies to your question on pages 6 and 7 of this thread

Just check on Toyota tech no TSB's issued in the system for the MXPH11 (hybrid) also checked the local TSB for Greece as regarding the EGR

the last TSB issue for the Gen4 Yaris is for the DCM

 

[Nixy]

Sorry, but this is getting to be an endless discussion. If the recall is for the diesel engines, it still refers to the same parts. The salient point here is that Toyota has fixed the faulty EGR and associated items for my new Mk 4 Yaris HSD, free of charge. 

[RickyC]

@Nixy the recalled diesel engines heve been made by BMW for Toyota.

The engine that is installed in our Yaris has been designed by Toyota and has nothing in common with the diesel ones.

I'm suspecting that EGR cooler used in the new Dynamic Force engines is affected by some design problem that make it too sensitive to corrosive acids that can be present in exaust gas but surely the part used on recalled desel engines is different. 

Luckily for you Toyota Greece has been respectful to its customers than Toyota Italy. 

Due I don't follow greek forums do you have evidence of other Greek customers that had your same issue ?

[FROSTYBALLS]

The recall relates to the BMW diesel engines used in the Auris, Avensis, Verso and Rav4 between 2014 and 2018

Toyota importers are responsible for warranty issues - so you may well get Toyota Italy and Toyota Greece having differing views, and there is no certainty the issue that was fixed under warranty by Toyota Greece is the same as the issues that Toyota Italy are looking at. 

Now please move on. 

 

[Nixy]

I totally agree. As I said "The salient point here is that Toyota has fixed the faulty EGR and associated items for my new Mk 4 Yaris HSD, free of charge. " As it wasn't a recall, I have just posted to a Greek Yaris blog and will report back if and when I have answers. 

[Cyker]

Heeey! I've been notified of not just one but two recalls for mine!

WGG20 - TMMF Yaris HV Skid Control ECU Reprogramming
WGG58 - eCall Malfunction on Multiple Models Equipped with Europe Campaign number

Now I don't feel so left out  

[Devon Aygo]

43 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Heeey! I've been notified of not just one but two recalls for mine!

WGG20 - TMMF Yaris HV Skid Control ECU Reprogramming
WGG58 - eCall Malfunction on Multiple Models Equipped with Europe Campaign number

Now I don't feel so left out  

WGG20 is up and running 

WGG58 Is coming but has not been launched yet, we are awaiting instructions & software so this one can't be done just yet.

[Cyker]

Oops, I hope they're not jumping the gun! Don't really want to have to book another visit in...

It only came up because I booked my service in for the last week of October, and I told them to add it to the joblist for that. The missing trims are also going to be fitted so that's going to be a long service...!!

(Kudos to Jemca for finally dealing with that - It's a shame I had to start writing angry complaints e-mails and escalate them to the main CS address, but at least they acted on it quickly!)

Do you have any interesting details on what the symptoms and fixes actually entail perchance?  

(Obviously don't reveal anything that'd risk getting you in trouble...!  )

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

4 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Oops, I hope they're not jumping the gun!

As far as I'm aware, previously DVSA used to give manufacturers time to get recall corrective action in place before notifying owners of possible recalls. This changed a couple of years ago - now owners are contacted asap and, at times, before action to correct the recall issue has been agreed and made available to dealers.

[Cyker]

Well I wasn't contacted out of the blue, this was more of a Oh By The Way... after I'd finalised my service booking (I just hope it doesn't doesn't inconvenience them having to extend the booking slot - I'm scared that service department already has it in for me after the AC and gearbox fiascos, I don't want to annoy them more!  )

[Stopeter44]

On 8/28/2021 at 8:34 PM, TonyHSD said:

Hi, 

here it is an interesting article about the new E10 petrol and direct injection engines: 

https://autotechnician.co.uk/forewarned-is-forearmed-e10-petrol/
 

... I don’t own a Toyota with this engine but if I had one I would rather stick with E5 until get clear picture of what is exactly the cause of the issues. 

Interesting article, but it struck me as "conditional", that is, not much in the way of real world reported problems.

I noted that while France is the Europe's largest E10 market, it's quite rare to find E5 95 octane fuel, E5 98 octane is common, though. Since 2015, or so, the bottom has fallen out of the sale of new diesel cars. Where I bought my last car, they said that 80% of new regs were petrol engined (this was 2015). Toyota no longer sells diesel passenger cars here.

I trawled through some French Toyota forum posts (notably the C-HR forum), but found very little content related to E10 fuel difficulties. I have found statistics that show new diesel registrations declining, but didn't find exactly what the mix petrol/diesel in more recently than 2017 is.

Mind you, I can't say that this thread hasn't started me wondering !

Edited September 22, 2021 by Stopeter44
typos and clarity

[W1P30UT]

16 hours ago, Cyker said:

Heeey! I've been notified of not just one but two recalls for mine!

WGG20 - TMMF Yaris HV Skid Control ECU Reprogramming
WGG58 - eCall Malfunction on Multiple Models Equipped with Europe Campaign number

Now I don't feel so left out  

Crickey! I’ve had both these issues, amongst others, causing my car to fail. I’ve just rejected it, and awaiting a replacement Yaris. The failure of the eCall and microphone was the final straw. Hopefully the replacement won’t be so problematic! 🙏 

[TonyHSD]

Hi,

I did some research about the fuels and I don’t think there is anything to be worried about cars made after year 2000 except those who are specifically not recommended to run on E10 petrol. My relative abroad has an Avensis with 2.0 petrol engine that goes into these group of vehicles that are not suitable to be run on E10 however when I asked him what type of petrol he usually use since 2018 when the E10 became standard over there he replied: “ I fill up whatever is available and I am not aware of this warning or noticed any issues with the car”. , well hi might see some trouble in the future but who knows when if 3 years now he is ok with it. I personally run my car on 99 E5 from Tesco since beginning of September only because the car feels much better to drive and the price is the same as 95 E10 from BP. There is a theory about why Diesel engines are usually with longer life than petrol equivalent, and the reason is because the diesel fuel is like oil and lubricates everything it goes through where the petrol is like wd-40 cleaner, it cleans everything it goes through but it is also called a dry fuel., with higher percentage of ethanol it becomes even drier and burns cleaner but it might have a negative impact on longevity of the engine components if the diesel theory is correct. 

[Yugguy1970]

40 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

.

Mind you, I can't say that this thread hasn't started me wondering !

And that is the trouble with car forums.  Well, social media full stop.

 

[flash22]

Toyota knew they had a DCM issue(s) back in june - typical software/firmware problems, issue one patch that breaks something else and the cycle continues till they get it right

[Nixy]

Hi. I have lately noticed that my 2020 yaris HSD tramlines when hitting bumps on the street. It may be the tyre pressure, I run them just a bit above recommended. Or it could be the suspension of the car? Or the shocks? Any similar experiences or useful comments? Thanks. 

[CPN]

29 minutes ago, Nixy said:

Hi. I have lately noticed that my 2020 yaris HSD tramlines when hitting bumps on the street. It may be the tyre pressure, I run them just a bit above recommended. Or it could be the suspension of the car? Or the shocks? Any similar experiences or useful comments? Thanks. 

Is your steering assist switched on my default by any chance?

[Stopeter44]

3 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

And that is the trouble with car forums.  Well, social media full stop.

 

Ah, yes, I was on (anti)social media, but have since deleted my accounts (about 5 years ago). I suppose that this forum can be considered social media, and it appears way more civilised than the audio forums I used to frequent, but I'm only subscribed here since about a week.

Getting back to fuel, E5/E10 and SP95/SP98. I drove to the nearest "big" town today, about 25kms away. petrol usually cheaper there than in our small town. E10 was 1,51€, E5 (95) was 1,62€ and E5 (98) was 1,64€. I bought E10 this time around, because the last time out I filled with E5 (95), by accident.

The small difference in price between E5 (95) and E5 (98), surprises me and makes me wonder why the E5 (95) even exists here in France.

OTOH, something I am seeing a lot more of is E85, it's only 0,70€ per litre ! We looked at Ford Fiesta/Puma before coming back to Toyota. Here in France, the Fiesta and Puma have Flexifuel variants that will take the E85. Unfortunately, neither had automatic transmissions on those variants. Now if Toyota would make a Flexifuel model ...