12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Dala]

Optimate solar DUO 20W

Without charging I have a drain of approx. 0.1V/day = approx 10% = 3,5Ah /day = 145mA /hour

    

  

on a sunny day, 10W will be enough
if the weather is bad - 20W is better

I use this application to determine the position and inclination of the solar panel:  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.th.suncalcorg&hl=en_US

 

[cruiserOAP]

On 6/7/2023 at 2:39 PM, Stormi said:

Hi, my battery went flat last week, RAC said it was a battery fault but Toyota insisted that after 13 months this is normal, I had to loose a days pay and drive 50 miles there and back over 2 days for them to re-charge the battery. I do roughly 1000 per month, (car is 14 months old) waiting on a response from Toyota GB who, along with 2 dealerships say this is not normal performance 

IF this not a Battery fault or Battery capacity issue, and if Toyota are hybrid system wizards as they claim, why are they not capable of designing software which maintains sufficient charge in the 12v Battery to activate the hybrid system? Because that's all the 12v battery does.

Option 2- Nissan had 12v battery problems, which ruined the reliability rating of the Quashqai. Are Toyota using the same 12v battery supplier?

Option 3- Toyota are suffering from the corporate disease of never admitting responsibility until forced to do so in the face of overwhelming evidence. A tactic also used by certain politicians, although they will also go on to deny reality, although Toyota do seem to be denying reality by claiming that a well used hybrid with a flat 12v battery is 'normal'.

They should look at the definition of 'Goods fit for purpose ' as used by trading standards.

[FROSTYBALLS]

'Fit for purpose' applies to the 2015 Consumer Rights Act (and previously the Sale of Goods Act) and relates to the contract between the retailer (in this case the dealer) and the customer - not the manufacturer.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Similar topics merged.

[Dala]

I will never understand the algorithm for smart charging of the car Battery while driving
IMO 12.3V is not a fully charged car Battery or according to Toyota is 100% car Battery 12.3V?

 

[CruxisCore]

12 hours ago, Dala said:

I will never understand the algorithm for smart charging of the car battery while driving
IMO 12.3V is not a fully charged car battery or according to Toyota is 100% car battery 12.3V?

 

I wonder if a lot of these issues could also be helped with some firmware updates on just how smart the charger actually is 😄

[Dala]

This low charging voltage will be the death for cars that are not driven often. Longer driving time won't help when 99% of the time the voltage is 12.8V. Glory to the green deal 😞 I prefer not to take risks anymore.  Whenever the yaris sits for more than a day, I plug in the solar panel.  Good for car Battery.  Bad references for Toyota.

[MCatPG]

22 hours ago, Dala said:

I will never understand the algorithm for smart charging of the car battery while driving
IMO 12.3V is not a fully charged car battery or according to Toyota is 100% car battery 12.3V?

 

@Dala Where did that screenshot come from? Have you found a way to access the algorithm on your car? 

I don't feel the need to plug the solar panel in every day on our car and it's something only I can do, my wife just will not do it, she says we spent £30k on the car and she's not messing around with stuff like that . I think that perhaps 3 days inactivity will be enough to justify plugging in. But you are right, these voltages will destroy any AGM chemistry eventually regardless of the number of charge/discharge cycles the Battery is designed to support. Perhaps we ought to identify the manufacturers of our batteries (they may well be different in different batches of cars) and ask the manufacturers what recommendations they give for their batteries.

[Dala]

6 minutes ago, MCatPG said:

@Dala Where did that screenshot come from? Have you found a way to access the algorithm on your car?........ 

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005057800182.html

[dannyboy413]

15 minutes ago, Dala said:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005057800182.html

Is that the same sort of thing as this -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08VHMJYXY?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder-t1_k0_1_21&amp=&crid=10QOM1LJZKZCM&amp=&sprefix=bluetooth+car+battery

[Derek.w]

David I have one fitted already but its  about time Toyota showed this infomation on the car info screen along with the hybrid Battery info.

With regards to the short low Battery warning between speedo and power usage this should stay on the screen until canceled by driver as the few seconds its on you can easly miss it expecily if you steering wheel is blocking it or you looking at the other screen for Battery info.

Toyota recomends if you have a low battery then stay in Hybrid mode ie second key position to give HV battery a chance to charge the 12 volt battery before starting.

This shoud also be programed and shown on the main screen as a timer before you start or press the start button all this is just softwear but dont hold your breath waiting.

[dannyboy413]

@Derek.w

I have the one I referred to in the Amazon link across the Battery in the Yaris Cross. It usually shows 12+ volts, but the 'Power' reading can drop quite a bit over the space of a few hours. (I have just checked and it is currently showing 77% - it was 90+% when I parked it at about 4.30pm! The fall off in the 'Power' reading is a lot more noticeable in the Cross than it was in the Corolla - I have no idea why. I agree with you Derek that having the details available on the screen would be a big advantage. 

[Dala]

12 hours ago, dannyboy413 said:

@Derek.w

I have the one I referred to in the Amazon link across the battery in the Yaris Cross. It usually shows 12+ volts, but the 'Power' reading can drop quite a bit over the space of a few hours. (I have just checked and it is currently showing 77% - it was 90+% when I parked it at about 4.30pm! The fall off in the 'Power' reading is a lot more noticeable in the Cross than it was in the Corolla - I have no idea why. I agree with you Derek that having the details available on the screen would be a big advantage. 

David, do you have any graphs from BM? could you post them?

[dannyboy413]

8 hours ago, Dala said:

David, do you have any graphs from BM? could you post them?

I have not found a way of downloading any information from the app - does anybody know if this is possible? However, you have given me an idea for a new spreadsheet ............🤔

[Dala]

22 minutes ago, dannyboy413 said:

I have not found a way of downloading any information from the app - does anybody know if this is possible? However, you have given me an idea for a new spreadsheet ............🤔

https://www.androidpolice.com/how-to-take-screenshot-android/

IMO calcium car batteries will be a problem in cars :

https://power.bigbadmole.com/en/akkumulyatory/avtomobilnye/kaltsievye.html

Decoding the production date of the Turkish Battery MUTLU :

https://power.bigbadmole.com/en/akkumulyatory/avtomobilnye/mutlu.html

[Derek.w]

2 hours ago, dannyboy413 said:

I have not found a way of downloading any information from the app - does anybody know if this is possible? However, you have given me an idea for a new spreadsheet ............🤔

If you using a iPhone just press top volume button and power button at the same time then you have a photo of what was shown on your screensaved in iPhone photos.

I suspect other phones can also take a screen shot then you paste it into other applications.

[dannyboy413]

I have a Samsung Galaxy and the method seems to be similar, but I could not get it to work. I will try, (harder), tomorrow. 

[Derek.w]

47 minutes ago, dannyboy413 said:

I have a Samsung Galaxy and the method seems to be similar, but I could not get it to work. I will try, (harder), tomorrow. 

Pressing two buttons in a case cover can be tricky (at the same time) try it without the case cover it may help.

[Stormi]

Am I right in thinking that you are all accepting of the fault on the Yaris and the C-HR such that the Battery goes flat. I drive 1000 a month living in Cornwall, just driving to the shop is 12 miles but I still had a flat Battery. The RAC are seeing this a lot now, an ex employee of my local dealer says having to put new batteries in is a common occurrence (I had a new Battery installed Monday into my Yaris cross, 14 months old, at the same time another customer, also on decent mileage, having been told they were the first one they had a problem with, was having a new battery but both the dealers and Toyota BG are refusing to accept they have a major problem!

Surely this requires more action from the group. They advertise these Hybrids in urban settings but tell you the car is not upto that type of motoring so officially they are breaking the law on Sale of Gods and Services?

[Max_Headroom]

Why doesn't someone who has had the problem open a thread titled  "My 12v Battery woes" or something similar get all members to post their problems and when the thread gets to a decent length showing this is a common problem send the link to all motoring magazines i am sure they would be interested.

[MCatPG]

10 hours ago, Stormi said:

Am I right in thinking that you are all accepting of the fault on the Yaris and the C-HR such that the battery goes flat. I drive 1000 a month living in Cornwall, just driving to the shop is 12 miles but I still had a flat battery. The RAC are seeing this a lot now, an ex employee of my local dealer says having to put new batteries in is a common occurrence (I had a new battery installed Monday into my Yaris cross, 14 months old, at the same time another customer, also on decent mileage, having been told they were the first one they had a problem with, was having a new battery but both the dealers and Toyota BG are refusing to accept they have a major problem!

Surely this requires more action from the group. They advertise these Hybrids in urban settings but tell you the car is not upto that type of motoring so officially they are breaking the law on Sale of Gods and Services?

We don't really have any quantitative data about the extent of the problem. Internet forums tend to attract posts from people who have problems but there will be lots of others who have no problems at all. The only evidence we have that this might be a serious problem for Toyota is the reports that the AA and RAC staff are saying they are seeing a lot of flat auxiliary batteries. The dealers are also seeing the problem but they will not cooperate, they will just lie about it because that's what dealers do. So my answer to your question is that I am accepting the existence of the problem and relying on self-help to manage the situation. Frankly at the moment my greatest concern is that the value of the car may be reduced if it becomes widely known that this problem exists and Toyota do nothing to solve it. Most people get cars on some sort of finance but we paid cash for ours so we don't really want adverse publicity.

@Max_Headroom This is that thread.

[Derek.w]

I am only driving 322 miles and thats in the summer less in winter.

No start problems since changing the Battery I presumed no point in asking Toyota for

one I wanted a larger capacity Battery.

Two If Toyota contributed to the cost of a replacment Battery the cost would be about the same as me changing it myself but without the battery capacity I wanted.

Three I can choose the battery MFG I want and its a lot more convinient than goint to the garage.

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

4 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

this is a common problem send the link to all motoring magazines i am sure they would be interested.

12v Battery issues aren't only occurring with Toyotas. Hyundais, Kias, Porsches, etc, may all have similar issues. 

The motoring media are aware of the issues already, as are various blogs, forums, etc, and Toyota magazine has published various articles on the same subject. So the information is already in the public domain. 

It isn't new news.

At the end of the day, Toyota Owners Club isn't a pressure or campaigning group. 

Even if it were, for the Club to alert media of the content of any topic, we would need the permission of each contributing member to that topic.

[anchorman]

21 hours ago, Stormi said:

Am I right in thinking that you are all accepting of the fault on the Yaris and the C-HR such that the battery goes flat. I drive 1000 a month living in Cornwall, just driving to the shop is 12 miles but I still had a flat battery. The RAC are seeing this a lot now, an ex employee of my local dealer says having to put new batteries in is a common occurrence (I had a new battery installed Monday into my Yaris cross, 14 months old, at the same time another customer, also on decent mileage, having been told they were the first one they had a problem with, was having a new battery but both the dealers and Toyota BG are refusing to accept they have a major problem!

Surely this requires more action from the group. They advertise these Hybrids in urban settings but tell you the car is not upto that type of motoring so officially they are breaking the law on Sale of Gods and Services?

Are they breaking the law?  So called knowledgeable people quote sale of goods and merchantable quality but Toyota and every other manufacturer know what the law is so don’t try that in court or it will cost you a lot of money.  These problems are purely down to a lack of understanding about how hybrids work and I’m not giving in to the entitled protest mob.  I fully agree that the dealers could do more to assess and educate owners but the cars are fine if used right.  

14 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

Why doesn't someone who has had the problem open a thread titled  "My 12v battery woes" or something similar get all members to post their problems and when the thread gets to a decent length showing this is a common problem send the link to all motoring magazines i am sure they would be interested.

Oh no, not another Battery thread, especially one geared towards moanie groanies 😉

[Yaris Hybrid 2021]

Too much is too much. The most unreliable car ever. You never know if it will start or not. But now we have a new car and we hope that the starting problems are over. I don't think I'll ever buy a Toyota again.