New vehicle oil change

[Cyker]

25 minutes ago, Mikw said:

Given the electronic dials on the Mk4, how can we tell what 2000 rpm is?

I'm not sure if there is another way to display it, but I'm lucky to have the HUD which has a display for RPM - It's also how I discovered the engine sometimes just seems to run for no reason (Heater off, not charging or driving wheels, but still running!)

[Catlover]

7 hours ago, Cyker said:

I'm not sure if there is another way to display it, but I'm lucky to have the HUD which has a display for RPM - It's also how I discovered the engine sometimes just seems to run for no reason (Heater off, not charging or driving wheels, but still running!)

Possibly to maintain engine temperature ?  I would think the computer systems are programmed to take into consideration putting a load onto a cold engine by it coming into operation at a “wrong” time would be detrimental to the system.

[Stopeter44]

7 hours ago, Cyker said:

…but I'm lucky to have the HUD which has a display for RPM - It's also how I discovered the engine sometimes just seems to run for no reason …

Is it luck, or a curse ? I must admit for as long as I’ve had a motorcycle or a car I’ve either had or wanted a tachometer.

But, moving to what is, in essence, at least, an electrified vehicle, what’s the use?

[ernieb]

You can not see it’s 2K rpm but you know it is because the car is tuned to sit at around that rpm to produce the best efficiency. There are efficiency curves published that show for this Atkinson cycle engine design at 2K rpm there is around the 40% conversion efficiency. 

[Flatcoat]

8 hours ago, Mikw said:

Indeed. Well, with the price of 0W-8 oil for the new Yaris, i have no choice to stick to the Toyota service schedule really. Any more frequent changes and i'd lose the benefits of the fuel saved by the Hybird system.I've been quoted £190 for my first service, i reckon half of that will be the cost of the oil.

Depends how long you intend keeping the car. If for 3-4 years and 40-50,000 miles I wouldn’t bother with an early change. However if a ‘keeper’ I suspect the cost will repay itself in time. I am still undecided although with towing about 3-4000 miles a year I am inclined to get an early oil change. 

[Catlover]

I know I have said it before, but with a hybrid 10,000 miles is about 6000 miles of engine use.

[Yugguy1970]

Yes, I have also thought this.  Unlike on for example a tractor, there's no indication of hours of use. 

When Toyota specify 10k oil changes, do they actually take this into account?

[Stivino]

11 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Yes, I have also thought this.  Unlike on for example a tractor, there's no indication of hours of use. 

When Toyota specify 10k oil changes, do they actually take this into account?

I have a sneaking suspicion that Toyota will know about these things and accounted for it.

[ernieb]

With the PHEV in my case it’s likely to be more like less than 3k miles of ICE for 10K miles on the clock.  I’d think that Toyota would want the oil changed every year even if the ICE had not fired at all as the oil sitting there doing nothing my well be worse than it working hard, only a guess on my part.

[philip42h]

Toyota specify service intervals of 1 year or 10k miles whichever comes first. One of the things performed at each service is an engine oil change - there are, of course, all the other checks etc to carry out.

Even if the service is carried out at 10k miles neither the HEV nor the PHEV will have necessarily run the ICE for that distance, but they will both have done an awful lot of starts and short (or very short) runs ...

[Flatcoat]

Many or most of those short journeys could be in EV mode so not sure of your point? I do however agree that servicing is not just about engine oil change. Could require brake pads, other fluid changes, transmission oil change, engine software updates and so on. 

[philip42h]

50 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

Many or most of those short journeys could be in EV mode so not sure of your point? I do however agree that servicing is not just about engine oil change. Could require brake pads, other fluid changes, transmission oil change, engine software updates and so on. 

Simply that on the HEV it may well switch between EV and non-EV every few hundred yards - lots of stops and starts. And even with the PHEV, as PHEV owners have commented, it will periodically run the ICE even if only to warm the engine during otherwise pure EV runs ...

[Yugguy1970]

It's a fair point.  The constant stopstart could negate the reduced mileage of the engine.

[Catlover]

58 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

It's a fair point.  The constant stopstart could negate the reduced mileage of the engine.

But that would mean a petrol only car would not only having its engine running for the full 10,000 miles but also still be doing stop/starts, would that mean it should have an engine oil change at less then 10,000 mile interval.

Maybe some overthinking being done.

[ColinB]

On 11/30/2021 at 5:00 PM, Lawnmowerman said:

Hi Joe, of course you are right to mention the advances over the years. What we don't know is the service regime the 200k milers have adopted - following manufacturer's schedules or not. When they were new they may have had a more frequent oil change regime than now.

With Toyota's reputation for reliability I would not have expected my 4.4 to need rear pads & discs at 2 years / 20k miles (corrosion on discs - not wear). Nor having failed trailing arm bushes at the same time. So as with other manufacturers, Toyota make compromises in material specification to suit their objectives. Not too many otherwise they wouldn't have the enviable reputation they have.

So. I am pleased that you are comfortable to 'go with it' but personally I will still question everything. 🙂

I had a Prius mk2 as a company car, it was the standard car for my grade so there were quite a few on the fleet. A standard problem after 2 or 3 years was rusting of the discs, as these are only used in hard braking. There was much discussion between the lease company and Toyota on whether this was covered by warranty or not. On my hybrids I have made a point of using the brakes quite hard at least once a day just to make sure that this doesn't happen. 

[ernieb]

10 hours ago, ColinB said:

I had a Prius mk2 as a company car, it was the standard car for my grade so there were quite a few on the fleet. A standard problem after 2 or 3 years was rusting of the discs, as these are only used in hard braking. There was much discussion between the lease company and Toyota on whether this was covered by warranty or not. On my hybrids I have made a point of using the brakes quite hard at least once a day just to make sure that this doesn't happen. 

That’s interesting,I’ve been thinking about this myself recently as generally I do try to recover as much energy as possible and therefor rarely operate the actual brakes very hard. I’d come to the same conclusion you have done and that’s to operate the ‘brakes’ regularly. However, my last couple of cars also showed some disc rusting and they were not HEV/PHEV’s, so I do wonder if the materials used for either the disc plate of brakes pads has changed over the last few years that somehow encourages the rusting effect? In one case the swept area was no too bad with some pitting but the outer edge was covered in great flakes of rust and got a mention at an MOT. The pitting seemed to suggest a material issue?

[Stopeter44]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

However, my last couple of cars also showed some disc rusting and they were not HEV/PHEV’s, so I do wonder if the materials used for either the disc plate of brakes pads has changed over the last few years that somehow encourages the rusting effect?

I was surprised to have to replace front discs on my current 208 after about 55k km, the previous Clio III I had, was still on the originals at 125k. The Peugeot dealer mumbled something about the materials not being the same now as the once were. He may have said, and I don't recall exactly, that the brake pads were more abrasive.

[Red_Corolla]

12 hours ago, Catlover said:

But that would mean a petrol only car would not only having its engine running for the full 10,000 miles but also still be doing stop/starts, would that mean it should have an engine oil change at less then 10,000 mile interval.

Maybe some overthinking being done.

Joe, the engine in a hybrid may have lower operating hours, but all the time that it does run, it is made to do work. That's very significant because it's heat cycles and biproducts of combustion that degrade the oil. Simply rotating the engine doesn't hurt it very much at all (it's actually better to keep it turning than stop it) and if wasn't burning fuel, it wouldn't need changing any more often than gearbox oil. It might be better to look at fuel consumption to decide how many miles your oil should last for, because that will give some representation of much work the engine has actually done.

If you were to look at individual use cases, you could come up with widely varying service intervals between different owners, which is exactly what a lot of other manufacturers are attempting to do with the car itself deciding when it's due. Toyota have obviously decided to be conservative and specify a relatively short interval which will provide a good product life for pretty much anyone who sticks to it.

[Lawnmowerman]

14 hours ago, ernieb said:

That’s interesting,I’ve been thinking about this myself recently as generally I do try to recover as much energy as possible and therefor rarely operate the actual brakes very hard. I’d come to the same conclusion you have done and that’s to operate the ‘brakes’ regularly. However, my last couple of cars also showed some disc rusting and they were not HEV/PHEV’s, so I do wonder if the materials used for either the disc plate of brakes pads has changed over the last few years that somehow encourages the rusting effect? In one case the swept area was no too bad with some pitting but the outer edge was covered in great flakes of rust and got a mention at an MOT. The pitting seemed to suggest a material issue?

Yup, the rear brakes on my 4.4 were flagged at 20k miles/2 years - Asked Toyota if the brake balance was proportionate to the (relative low use of a Hybrid) or a deficiency in materials.

Weren't interested - Customer Relations non-technical. Would have had a better conversation with the janitor.

I hope the 4.5 might fare better. My appeal to the forum for a better non-Toyota option for discs/pads didn't yield any info. It would have definitely failed its first MOT - but that is the dealers problem now.

[Flatcoat]

My previous Volvo PHEV was still on all the original pads and discs (front and rear) at 63k miles and less than half worn when I sold it. I have never ever had rear brakes wear in such a short mileage on any car. 

[Lawnmowerman]

47 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

My previous Volvo PHEV was still on all the original pads and discs (front and rear) at 63k miles and less than half worn when I sold it. I have never ever had rear brakes wear in such a short mileage on any car. 

Nor have I 😒

[Woofwoof]

You can take a look at th wool colouring and viscosity on the dipstick and then decide from there