Off to France - 2017 CHR

[Notebook]

Hi all

Think I read somewhere that some Toyota vehicles don't require the stickers that were placed over headlights, like I have done previously on other cars.  Is this correct?

[Chrisg99]

3 hours ago, Notebook said:

Hi all

Think I read somewhere that some Toyota vehicles don't require the stickers that were placed over headlights, like I have done previously on other cars.  Is this correct?

When I went to France never put beam correctors on. The LED headlights do not require them. Unsure about Halogen though.

[asinrutee]

I have been to France with a 2017 and a 2022 CHR, neither of them needed stick- on beam deflectors, you do need a UK sign on the back of your car though. Either part of the number plate or a seperate sticker

[TonyHSD]

Enjoy your trip 👌

[Haliotis]

14 hours ago, Chrisg99 said:

When I went to France never put beam correctors on. The LED headlights do not require them. Unsure about Halogen though.

Cannot see how LED headlights differ from any others.  The dipped beam (left) for a UK car must dip to the right in the EU to prevent dazzling oncoming vehicles.   I have read articles that say it isn’t necessary, BUT my 2021 CH-R has a button to set the dipped headlights to ‘auto’ and they dip when approached by oncoming traffic.   Surely, if no change was necessary for driving on the right, why is the car provided with this button?

Also, when driving at night, I have noticed how my dipped beams give a raised lighting effect on my near side, compared to light reaching the offside of the road.  Now, if I were to drive in Europe, that raised lighting on dip would be pointing straight at the oncoming traffic.

Personally, I would advise getting guidance from professional sources, rather than trusting what is said on forums.  My own posting is only my opinion based on logic, and in no way intended to indicate that I believe I am positively correct.

[philip42h]

As Albert says we need to be cautious trusting what is said on forums - you could get very misled but what people post  ... 😉

The law simply requires that we don't dazzle oncoming drivers - not that the beam necessarily dips to the left or the right. (And, obviously, it means that you may not drive on main / high beams against oncoming traffic here or on the continent).

Old fashioned incandescent headlamps had a distinct tick-up towards the nearside to assist the driver with seeing the edge of the road and road signs. And that would tend to dazzle oncoming drivers on the continent.

Modern LED headlamps produce a dead flat beam - with no tick-up to the left at all. So these can safely be used on the continent without correction.

"Professional" advice isn't necessarily helpful. Eurolites would very happily sell me stickers with instructions as where to put them - that's the business they are in. And when asked, my dealer was confident that stickers were required. Both are 'wrong' - the beam on my RAV4 with LED headlights is dead flat.

The simple test is to park a few feet / meters away from a wall, at night, and turn on the dipped beams. If the beam pattern is flat, you are good to go; if there is a tick up to the left, the beams need correction.

[Notebook]

4 hours ago, Haliotis said:

Cannot see how LED headlights differ from any others.  The dipped beam (left) for a UK car must dip to the right in the EU to prevent dazzling oncoming vehicles.   I have read articles that say it isn’t necessary, BUT my 2021 CH-R has a button to set the dipped headlights to ‘auto’ and they dip when approached by oncoming traffic.   Surely, if no change was necessary for driving on the right, why is the car provided with this button?

Also, when driving at night, I have noticed how my dipped beams give a raised lighting effect on my near side, compared to light reaching the offside of the road.  Now, if I were to drive in Europe, that raised lighting on dip would be pointing straight at the oncoming traffic.

Personally, I would advise getting guidance from professional sources, rather than trusting what is said on forums.  My own posting is only my opinion based on logic, and in no way intended to indicate that I believe I am positively correct.

Yes - the button is for driving with high beam on

[Haliotis]

We are hoping to take the C-HR to France next year.  My confusion started with my decision to get a spare bulb set. The User’s Guide (handbook) which came with my car has, on the front inside cover, “This User Guide is not intended as a replacement for your main owner’s manual We advise you to carefully read the main owner’s manual………..”

So I rang my main dealer, explained my problem, and said I did not receive the main manual when I bought the car.  I was advised that these manuals are only available on line, but was told that someone would ring me back with necessary guidance - still waiting on that.

I found several manuals on line, but which one?  My car was first registered in January 2021, so I need to know the ‘model year’.  Apparently, the 10th character of the 17-character VIN number is the model year.  For my car, this is a zero.  All the tables I have found on line only give a letter for this character, so I am no further forward.  

The manual I have guessed at is dated Dec 2020 BUT, in searching through it, I have found no more info than given in the User Guide.

Nick, I understand how to use the main beam button but, as I said, why have it if adjustment for l/h-to-r/h drive isn’t needed?  So logic is telling me that my headlight bulbs are probably not LED, but I need to be sure before buying (and carrying) spares that may be useless.  Why, oh why, have manufacturers made things so complicated?

[Haliotis]

An added thought to the above post.  My headlight beams turn in accordance with my steering.  So, if I was driving in France and taking a bend to the left, would not my dipped headlights turn towards oncoming traffic?🙁

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Haliotis said:

I found several manuals on line, but which one?

Provided that your car is registered to you via My Toyota when you access the Owners Manual via My Toyota it will select the correct one for you.

Otherwise, go to here: https://www.toyota.co.uk/customer/manuals and enter your VIN.

Edit: I have just now checked the manual for my wife's 2021 C-HR. It states:

Quote

■ Replacing the following bulbs
If any of the lights listed below has burnt out, have it replaced by
any authorized Toyota retailer or Toyota authorized repairer, or any
reliable repairer.
● Headlights
● Front position lights/daytime running lights
● Front turn signal lights (vehicles with LED type)
● Front fog lights (vehicles with LED type)
● Stop/tail lights (vehicles with LED type)
● Rear turn signal lights (vehicles with LED type)
● Back-up lights (vehicles with LED type)
● Rear fog light (vehicles with LED type)
● High mounted stoplight
● Outer mirror illumination (if equipped)

■LED light bulbs
The following lights consist of a number of LEDs. If any of the LEDs burn out,
take your vehicle to any authorized Toyota retailer or Toyota authorized
repairer, or any reliable repairer.
●Headlights
●Front position lights/daytime running lights
●Front turn signal lights (vehicles with LED type)
●Front fog lights (vehicles with LED type)
●Stop/tail lights (vehicles with LED type)
●Rear turn signal lights (vehicles with LED type)
●Back-up lights (vehicles with LED type)
●Rear fog light (vehicles with LED type)
●High mounted stoplight
●Outer mirror illumination (if equipped)

I'm pretty certain that you have LED headlights! 😉

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Haliotis said:

We are hoping to take the C-HR to France next year.  My confusion started with my decision to get a spare bulb set.

Nick, I understand how to use the main beam button but, as I said, why have it if adjustment for l/h-to-r/h drive isn’t needed?  So logic is telling me that my headlight bulbs are probably not LED, but I need to be sure before buying (and carrying) spares that may be useless.  Why, oh why, have manufacturers made things so complicated?

1 hour ago, Haliotis said:

An added thought to the above post.  My headlight beams turn in accordance with my steering.  So, if I was driving in France and taking a bend to the left, would not my dipped headlights turn towards oncoming traffic?🙁

The Owner's Manual probably isn't going to be much help but should tell you about the headlamps / headlamp bulbs that are fitted to that model year.

The fact that the headlamps follow the steering is irrelevant to which side of the road you are driving on. Provided that the beam is dipped, you can't dazzle anyone just because the beam points a little more in the direction you are travelling.

Given that your headlamps follow the steering it suggests to me that they probably are LED units. The manual may help identify this. And in that case, as you suspect, getting 'spares' would involve carrying complete units for both the LHS and the RHS - which we are not required to do (fortunately).

Automatic main beam - better described as auto dip - has no relevance to driving on the continent. Whether you use it or not, you must not drive on main bean against oncoming traffic here or abroad. You know that of course - the point is that this piece of automation has no bearing on the matter.

As I suggested earlier, check whether your dipped beams have a pronounced 'tick' up to the left. If they are LED they probably don't and don't need correction; if there is an obvious tick up stickers are required to blank off that element of the beam.

[Haliotis]

Thanks for your reply, Philip.  The manual on line that I have been referring too does not give precise information.  However, I need to start investigating from square one because, for some reason or other (possibly linked to the ad where I first spotted the car), I have been under the impression that it was registered in Jan 2021, where in fact it was first registered on 25 June 2021.  When I first located it, the car was advertised on line at both Listers, Coventry and Listers, Nuneaton.  The sale price and given mileage were different in the two adverts, and when I booked a date to view and test drive I was told that it was due to be moved from Coventry to Nuneaton.  Around this time, the ad had disappeared from the Coventry website.  I was unaware of all of this because my S-I-L was helping me find a car - I found the Nuneaton ad and he found the Coventry ad, and we went together to view the car without really noticing the ad/mileage differences at that time, although they were relatively minor and probably internal clerical errors.

I will do a check against a wall, or my garage door, after dark to see if there is a tick to the left.  But I have to get my facts right before buying a spare bulb kit.

[Harters]

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/183072/do-i-need-to-carry-spare-led-bulbs-when-driving-in-france-
 

[Cyker]

The vast majority of LEDs seem to be projector-type, which use a panel that physically cuts off the beam spread when dipped; These have a very sharp and flat light cutoff above a certain height that extends fully to the left and right  - These absolutely don't need beam deflectors.

There are a few early ones which used reflectors, and these likely would need deflectors, but I don't know of any Toyota that has this.

Most basic LED-equipped Toyotas use the above-mentioned projector-style system, but the fancier and more up-market models often have some sort of active system, either the lights are on a steerable gimbal, or have a multi-LED matrix which the car can switch on and off individual parts of the beam pattern - These also don't need beam deflectors generally.

In the end, as Phillip says, the best thing to do is to check for yourself with the shine-it-at-a-wall test  

[Notebook]

Thanks

[Haliotis]

Using Halfords ‘bulb finder’,it says my car headlights are HIR2 9012 for both main and dripped beams.  Further investigation shows that this part number can be either standard bulb(Halolgen?) or LED.  The price differences also reflect the type.  So I still don’t know exactly what type of headlight bulbs are in my vehicle.

In the Halfords guidance on bulb types it has this advice, for LED bulbs:  “……..you’ll only be able to benefit from them if your car’s manufacturer has installed them - it’s currently illegal to add LED bulbs to your car as an aftermarket installation.”

It seems that my only way of being sure is to get advice from my Toyota dealer.  I find it a bit irksome that proper information isn’t given in the manual, considering the possible consequences for fitting an illegal bulb, or even that one can be severely fined for having a failed road light bulb; bearing in mind that a bulb can fail at any time, and fitting at the roadside can be dangerous and also that many modern cars are not built to give easy access for bulb-changing in any circumstances.

Manufacturers would seem to generally assume that car owners will go running to the dealership for every need of attention, and lack of information in the handbook/manuals does seem to support this.  There are variable cutoff points where DIY work becomes beyond the owner, and dictated by an owner’s technical skills.

For myself, having spent all my life in electrical and mechanical engineering - the last 30 years in development - I have rebuilt engines, gearboxes and transmission systems.  I still have workshop manuals in the loft for the many cars I have owned and worked upon.  I’ll concede, with the modern motorcar, there are areas where specialist knowledge demands avoidance of DIY activity, but the limitations that owners now face have gone a little too far. What I have also found, is that dealerships, and even manufacturers’ own customer services, do not like a vehicle owner to challenge them.  I have done so, successfully, and their resentment has been palpable.

[philip42h]

4 hours ago, Haliotis said:

Manufacturers would seem to generally assume that car owners will go running to the dealership for every need of attention, and lack of information in the handbook/manuals does seem to support this.  There are variable cutoff points where DIY work becomes beyond the owner, and dictated by an owner’s technical skills.

Who's a grumpy old Albert then? 😁

Up to a point you are entirely correct. Times have moved on and the extent to which a car is owner serviceable - or indeed requires servicing by the owner - is reducing. Either way, I still want to know how my car works - but stop short of doing anything that risks getting my hands dirty. 🙂

However, the owner's manual gives you all the information you need. There are detailed instructions on how to change each of the bulbs that an owner can change together with the bulb types required. I rather baulk at instructions that include "partly remove the fender liner" but that is the way in if you want to change a particular bulb for yourself. All of the bulbs that the owner can change are traditional incandescent types (though you could install LED equivalents if you wished).

Of the rest it states:

Replacing the following bulbs
If any of the lights listed below has burnt out, have it replaced by any authorized Toyota retailer or Toyota authorized repairer, or any reliable repairer.

• Headlights
• Front position lights/daytime running lights
• Front turn signal lights (vehicles with LED type)
• Front fog lights (vehicles with LED type)
• Stop/tail lights (vehicles with LED type)
• Rear turn signal lights (vehicles with LED type)
• Back-up lights (vehicles with LED type)
• Rear fog light (vehicles with LED type)
• High mounted stoplight
• Outer mirror illumination (if equipped)

So, yes, they are deemed not to be owner serviceable - and there's no point in attempting to carry spares when travelling abroad. Halfrauds is simply 'wrong' in this case.

Since you would like to try to do it yourself, have a really good look at the headlights on your C-HR and see whether you can find any bulbs to replace, let alone anyway to replace them. I had a good hard stare at the wife's 2021 C-HR and couldn't - the look to be LED units to me rather than replaceable bulbs ...

[Haliotis]

Hey Philip, do I really come over as “a grumpy old Albert”?  Generally, I do get along fine with my dealership(s), but I will pull them up, as politely as possible, if they are obviously wrong.  I dealt with my last dealership (Volkswagen) for over 20 years, and bought a total of four cars from them - all having a service plan.  But I did have one or two issues (usually with years in between) where I had to “slap their wrists”.  I never took this too seriously, because you are very lucky if you have no quarrel with a service department over such a long period.  Amicable resolvement  is the sensible aim.

If I achieve the same rapport with my Toyota dealership as I  did with Volkswagen I will be well satisfied.

[Cyker]

In 99% of cars, LEDs are integrated into the lamp housing and considered a single piece - There's no official repair/replacement procedure for these because of the risk of the light pattern going out of spec.

This is also partly why there're no legal LED conversion bulbs for normal Halogen headlamps.

 

I will say modern cars are lot less user-serviceable than older ones; For some things there's good reason (I've been electrocuted enough times to be very wary of going near the high-voltage stuff in mine!), but many car manufacturers have also been deliberately making them harder to repair. The worst current example is with a lot of german marques - You can't change the 12v Battery on a lot of their higher-end cars without coding it to the ECU like you do with injectors!! There is no defensible reason for this. They apparently just want to stop people working on their own cars.

This is one reason I tend to stick with Toyota - They still design their cars with serviceability in mind, and you really notice it compared to other makes...

 

[Haliotis]

51 minutes ago, Cyker said:

 

……………This is one reason I tend to stick with Toyota - They still design their cars with serviceability in mind, and you really notice it compared to other makes...

 

Being my first Toyota vehicle, this is nice to know.   Obviously, I have a service plan to ensure my  extended warranty cover for car and hybrid Battery, but  the need to carry out a DIY repair between services cannot be ruled out.

[Notebook]

Had a reply off Toyota uk via Twitter X...

Hi Nick, our Product Technical team have advised to visit a local Toyota dealer or MOT Centre with a beam alignment tool to have your headlights set manually in accordance with driving aboard to prevent dazzling oncoming traffic. We hope this helps. Thanks.

[Haliotis]

On 7/31/2023 at 5:47 PM, Notebook said:

Had a reply off Toyota uk via Twitter X...

Hi Nick, our Product Technical team have advised to visit a local Toyota dealer or MOT Centre with a beam alignment tool to have your headlights set manually in accordance with driving aboard to prevent dazzling oncoming traffic. We hope this helps. Thanks.

How does this rate with the situation when driving in the UK before leaving and after returning?

[Notebook]

Hi All

Spoke to my Dealer and the reply was... Halfords kit

[philip42h]

15 minutes ago, Notebook said:

Hi All

Spoke to my Dealer and the reply was... Halfords kit

That's what my dealer told me - he was wrong ... 😉

But, have you checked the beam for yourself? Totally flat beam = no problem; pronounced tick up to the left = stickers required.

Alternatively, just use the stickers! 🙂  That'll block out some light that you might prefer to keep but otherwise won't do any harm.

[Haliotis]

Got home late last night.  Instead of parking car in usual place, I pulled in front of garage door (white painted) with headlights on dip.  As far as I can tell, the beam is flat, but a little difficult to be absolutely certain because spread of beams are wider by far than the door.   Previously, I thought I had detected a ‘tick’ to the left, but subsequent driving on winding roads after dark showed variation at the top of the dipped beams as they changed direction to follow the road in response to my steering.