Stability problem, toyota Corolla

[GasGas]

I'm happy to have opened this discussion and I realize that there is a lot of confusion about new driver assistance systems. I am now retired but I have worked for more than 40 years with electronics systems that are much more complicated than those mounted on cars and I think I can provide some clarity.
First of all, many people confuse between LTA (Lane Tracing Assist) which can usually be deactivated and activated from a button near the steering wheel and LDA (lane departure alert) which can instead be deactivated from the settings menu but in our case it cannot be deactivated in permanently.
I can guarantee you that not even the Merlin Magician could invent an LDA system that works correctly in the city due to the numerous variables.
I am speaking to you as a former designer and I believe in a programming error on the part of the R & D department which can be verified through the operating manual on page. 520.

[Roker]

2 hours ago, GasGas said:

I'm happy to have opened this discussion and I realize that there is a lot of confusion about new driver assistance systems. I am now retired but I have worked for more than 40 years with electronics systems that are much more complicated than those mounted on cars and I think I can provide some clarity.
First of all, many people confuse between LTA (Lane Tracing Assist) which can usually be deactivated and activated from a button near the steering wheel and LDA (lane departure alert) which can instead be deactivated from the settings menu but in our case it cannot be deactivated in permanently.
I can guarantee you that not even the Merlin Magician could invent an LDA system that works correctly in the city due to the numerous variables.
I am speaking to you as a former designer and I believe in a programming error on the part of the R & D department which can be verified through the operating manual on page. 520.

That answers a question that I thought about for awhile. 

During normal driving the display shows 2 parallel lines for lane control, when I swith the Cruise Control on it shows 4 parallel lines ,presumably LTA and LDA respectively,  but I cannot feel any difference in the function on the steering wheel, just a gentle nudge

Edited November 4, 2023 by Roker
Clarify

[GasGas]

The four horizontal lines are due to the Dynamic Radar Cruise Control to set the safe distance from the vehicle in front with Vehicle-to-vehicle distance switch near the steering wheel. On page 278 the operating manual explains that 1 horizontal line corresponds to 25 m, 2 lines 30 m, 3 lines 45 m and 4 Liebe 60 m.

[fred88]

The sensitivity of the lane assist can be adjusted in the vehicle settings. I recall turning mine to low even though hardly use it.

[GasGas]

I would also like to add that the LDA system has been incorrectly called Lane Departure Alert since it works with SA (Steering Assist) which moves the steering and strangely they have removed it from the settings to deactivate it.

When driving the steering is very light and very responsive, it feels like driving on slippery asphalt and this contributes to making driving unsafe.

[fred88]

1 hour ago, GasGas said:

The four horizontal lines are due to the Dynamic Radar Cruise Control to set the safe distance from the vehicle in front with Vehicle-to-vehicle distance switch near the steering wheel. On page 278 the operating manual explains that 1 horizontal line corresponds to 25 m, 2 lines 30 m, 3 lines 45 m and 4 Liebe 60 m.

interesting, I knew it was distance related but not the specifics.

[GasGas]

History of safety sense TSS from Toyotanation.com forum

2.5 was enhanced to 2.5 Plus with details given below, the difference between 2.5 Plus and 3.0 is a wider camera scan angle and the sensors have a longer range.

September 16, 2020, Safety Sense 2.5+ features autonomous emergency braking, which not only detects the vehicle ahead, but also pedestrians and cyclists, either during daytime or in low-light conditions. Moreover, when the driver performs a left-hand turn, the system detects oncoming vehicles, cyclists, and pedestrians, provides audio and visual alerts, and can ultimately apply the brakes if necessary.

Toyota Safety Sense 2.5+ is fitted as standard on the refreshed 2021 Toyota Camry and Camry Hybrid, the 2021 Toyota Highlander—which is offering a new sporty XSE trim level and other enhancements—as well as the Highlander Hybrid. TSS 2.5+ will then be gradually integrated across Toyota’s vehicle lineup in the coming years.

Please note: Having TSS 2.5 Plus is very good and there is no immediate need for obtaining a vehicle with TSS 3.0 as the only significant difference is the range at which it is able to abstract details and provide a warning a few fraction of a second to a second quicker. As Toyota states that it is the driver's behavior and reaction to prevent accidents that TSS is no guarantee or will prevent you from being involved in an automobile incident. TSS is meant as a technology-based tool to aid you while driving and it is subject to operational malfunctions or may not function well in inclement weather conditions.

For the year 2023, TSS 3.0 is being offered on the Corolla, Corolla Hybrid, Corolla Hatchback, Corolla Cross, and GR Corolla, and will continue to roll out on other models of the Toyota lineup. It has previously been offered only on Toyota’s first all-electric SUV, the bZ4X, and the flagship Crown sedan. TSS 3.0 enhanced versions from 2.5 Plus are Toyota’s Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection (PCS w/PD), Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist (LDA w/SA), Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC), Lane Tracing Assist (LTA), Road Sign Assist (RSA), and Automatic High Beams (AHB). These have been refined, tuned, and had firmware updates that are not applicable for previous versions of TSS as only to 3.0.

* New in TSS 3.0 is the Emergency Driving Stop System (EDSS), a driver monitoring system. “If the EDSS determines the driver is not attentive and the driver does not respond to prompts to resume control of the vehicle, it can bring the vehicle to a stop under certain conditions."

Also new is Proactive Driving Assist (PDA), “Proactive Driving Assist provides gentle braking into curves or gentle braking and/or steering to help support driving tasks such as distance control between the vehicle and a preceding vehicle, pedestrian, or bicyclist.”

Other features and/or definitions:

7. Pre-Collision System is capable of detecting motorcycles and laterally approaching vehicles, such as cross traffic at an intersection.

8. Lane Departure Alert can now use additional objects to define the road, such as guardrails.

9. Dynamic Radar Cruise Control is capable of detecting vehicles in adjacent lanes and offers an additional following distance setting.

10. Road Sign Assist detects additional sign types, such as warning signs.

11. Blind Spot Monitor with Rear Cross-Traffic Alert system. Blind Spot Monitor is designed to help in these situations by using radar sensors mounted in the rear bumper. When BSM detects a vehicle in the vehicle’s blind spot, it illuminates a warning indicator on the appropriate side view mirror.

12. Curve Speed Management with adaptive cruise control.

[FROSTYBALLS]

.... and previously there was also Toyota Safety Sense (TSS) and Toyota Safety Sense 2 (TSS2).

 

[Cyker]

Huh, so is it different rules for different companies...??

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

so is it different rules for different companies...??

No. The next tranche of safety systems become mandatory for all new vehicles from 2025. Until then manufacturers can vary the system they offer, and how they operate. Presumably Renault have decided to provide their current version of Lane Keeping Assist with the option to disable, but in 18 months time, may have to change the system. Also some manufacturers have different names for Lane Keeping Assist - e.g. Ford and VAG call theirs Lane Assist, Hyundai Lane Keep Assist, etc.

[Roker]

How do we know which systems version we have, is it in settings etc

[FROSTYBALLS]

21 minutes ago, Roker said:

How do we know which systems version we have, is it in settings etc

In what way?

[Roker]

39 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

In what way?

Is mine 2.0. 2.5.  3.0 etc

[FROSTYBALLS]

46 minutes ago, Roker said:

Is mine 2.0. 2.5.  3.0 etc

Toyota Safety Sense 2.0

[GasGas]

Unfortunately Toyota does not show the Safety Sense version on the cockpit display, the only way is the Year of manufacture and model, through the various Toyota communications. 

[GasGas]

Anyone interested can download the pdf at this link   https://engage.toyota.com/static/images/toyota_safety_sense/TSS_Applicability_Chart.pdf

[FROSTYBALLS]

Unfortunately the pdf is for the US market (issued by Toyota US), includes models not sold in Europe, and doesn't feature the Aygo or Avensis, which weren't sold in the US.

[GasGas]

Sorry but this is the only document I could find

[twintopp]

i can turn mine off, and leave it off, had it on 2016 astra and it was severe if you didn`t indicate. i know  the corolla`s is quite gentle in comparison and have to accept it will become mandatory in my next car.   

[GasGas]

Thank you tuwintopp for reporting your experience. I would like to reiterate that the LDA system is dangerous in the city and province with an example that has happened to me several times. Imagine driving on a narrow road where two vehicles pass side by side with difficulty, if a truck arrives from the road opposite to yours, your instinct is to pull over to have more space and not risk a head-on collision, these are moments in which your decision is compromised by the LDA system which opposes it because you ended up on the white line.

I'm sorry to say it but the LDA system was created to avoid the many accidents caused by distraction, when you drive you look at the road and nothing else... We all need to examine our consciences and then I don't think these automatic systems are the solution.

 

[RabButler]

If you think it's dangerous, turn it off. It only takes 6 taps on the left hand steering wheel control.

[GasGas]

Yes, LDA is certainly dangerous and I have to deactivate it every time I turn the car on from the settings menu because it is not possible to deactivate it permanently. The button near the steering wheel is for LTA.

[RabButler]

13 hours ago, GasGas said:

Yes, LDA is certainly dangerous and I have to deactivate it every time I turn the car on from the settings menu because it is not possible to deactivate it permanently. The button near the steering wheel is for LTA.

Exactly. According to the manual LDA is a subset of LTA. If you turn off the LTA, you are not bothered by all the other nanny systems.

[GasGas]

In my Toyota Corolla my23 it doesn't work like that, LTA is always deactivated, if you want to activate it you have to press the button near the steering wheel.

LDA on the other hand, even if Sta is off, is always active.

The only possibility is to temporarily deactivate it in the settings menu. 

[AndrueC]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:43 AM, MarkJames said:

What with having to deactivate the LDA, activating the Brake Hold etc - & I'm sure there's something else. it's a bit of a faff. Toyota want to learn to let people decide for themselves. It would hardly be a stretch to have these things permanently On or Off. 

For my 2022 Corolla:

• Brake hold on.
• Cruise control on.
• Switch infotainment unit to Audio.

Having to also disable LDA would be a pain.