Yaris Cross starting up in petrol mode?

[dcweather]

My new Yaris Cross is giving poor mpg figures so far compared to my wife's 2014 hybrid Icon and Renault Captur Etech hybrid. About 54-58 mpg on some fairly favourable driving. One thing I have noticed is that when I turn it on the engine noisily chugs away and I have to drive a mile before EV kicks in. And when it does I only have to touch the accelerator at 20mph and it goes off EV. Even when it has warmed up it can't sustain EV mode for long at 20 mph on flat roads. This kind of defeats the object as our ten year old hybrid purs off in EV and maintains it most of the mile trip to the Supermarket. Is there a fault or is it just not as good. I really miss that quiet "milk float" purring as I pull away.

[Mojo1010]

You say the 2014 hybrid purrs off in EV, I had a 2016 hybrid MK3 for 5 years, I can say mine doesn't do that most of the time in winter, more often than not the engine comes on frequently at start up. Now I have the 2023 MK4 and it's pretty much the same. 

The mpg currently I think it's reasonable for the cross, I'm getting a bit better on the hatchback MK4. Come summer you can expect ~ 70 mpg on the cross. The cross is a heavier car than the hatchback, so it's reasonably normal that it cannot sustain EV for long. This is one of the reason I won't get the 115bhp YC, only will consider the 130 one in the future, anchorman knows best 🙂

 

[dcweather]

Yes, I'm hoping for more in summer, I hadn't realised it would be that much better a

I must say. I'll be happy with anything over 60.

[dcweather]

23 minutes ago, Mojo1010 said:

You say the 2014 hybrid purrs off in EV, I had a 2016 hybrid MK3 for 5 years, I can say mine doesn't do that most of the time in winter, more often than not the engine comes on frequently at start up. Now I have the 2023 MK4 and it's pretty much the same. 

The mpg currently I think it's reasonable for the cross, I'm getting a bit better on the hatchback MK4. Come summer you can expect ~ 70 mpg on the cross. The cross is a heavier car than the hatchback, so it's reasonably normal that it cannot sustain EV for long. This is a reason I won't get the 115bhp YC, only will consider the 130 one in the future.

 

I imagine the Renault Captur was heavier, given its slightly larger size, bigger engine capacity andmore sound proofing and larger fuel tank etc. But despite most things being excellent it didn't drive anything like as nicely as the Cross.

[Bernard Foy]

It will improve with warmer weather and of course as the engine loosens out. I have noticed that the Mark 4 1.5 engine doesn't reach its maximum performance until at least 15000 miles are on the clock.

[flash22]

does the YC get long fast runs? get some heat in the engine and give the GPF a chance to clear, you will always get lower MPG on e10 fuels, especially in the winter

[Cyker]

You'll have to get used to it I'm afraid - The batteries in the new Yaris and Cross are smaller than they have been in any other previous hybrid (Even the Yaris Mk3's one is nearly twice the capacity of the Mk4's!), so they tend to cycle between the engine and electrics much more frequently.

Mine almost never runs on EV from starting, maybe if I've stopped briefly and them moved off again, but virtually never in the morning.

But that's all by design - Remember, it's not an EV: It's a very very efficient petrol car, and the Battery is only there to capture wasted energy. Having a small Battery has actually improved efficiency over the previous models, as it's much lighter, and by making the engine cycle more often it stops it loosing too much temp, which would cause a bigger hit to efficiency over the journey.

It can be a bit annoying for people used to the buttery smooth 4-pots, as the 3-cylinder is quite unrefined by comparison (I'm curious to see how the addition of a balancer shaft in the new 130HP version fares!), but as a former DERV head I find the dakka quite soothing  

 

[Graham47]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

The batteries in the new Yaris and Cross are smaller than they have been in any other previous hybrid (Even the Yaris Mk3's

Every day’s a school day …. I hadn’t realised this.

[Primus1]

Yes don’t panic, mines the same, picked it up last July and regularly seeing 68 mpg, now the winters here , especially that very cold snap, it was showing low 50s, it’s a bit warmer now so it’s gone up a bit  to 57/ 8 atm.

[Cyker]

The biggest loss of mpg in winter in the newer hybrids, aside from tyre pressures etc., is the use of the heater - At low/urban speeds especially it sucks heat out of the engine faster than it can put it back from combustion (Mostly because at low speed the engine spends more time off), and it will literally waste energy running to generate heat.

If you can do without heat, you can get near-summer mpg by turning the heating off, or only turning it on when you're on faster roads, but I've come round to the argument you're better off sacrificing some mpg than freezing your proverbials off  

[MikeSh]

21 minutes ago, Cyker said:

aside from tyre pressures etc

It's surprising how much they'll drop in a cold snap.

I'd inflated mine a few weeks ago and usually go 1psi above recommended to allow for loss/temperature drop. During the cold a week ago my tpws light came on shortly after setting off, so I stopped to check for any obvious loss but all looked ok. It was a short trip to pick someone up, so I did that and the next day got my gauge out. I expected to find one a bit low with a nail in it or something, but they were all about 3psi low (so 4 below what I'd set not that long ago}. Pumped then all up and the light was gone.

So if you want economy you really will need to keep a close eye on pressures, especially when it goes colder.

[Roy124]

Dave, another vote for entirely normal. 

Today, from cold,  my wife got 65 over 9 miles with a large down gradient.  Then 70 over 3 miles. 

Returning she got 54 rather than 70 and 57 rather than 65.

It was reasonably warm for January and sunny.

[chazbri]

Had  a X Excel for 2 years and the Summer mpg has been around 65. In the Winter mpg dropped to around 56 seems usual to me and am fine with that.

[Chas G]

22 yaris cross icon.I did 80 mile round trip to Reading yesterday and according to trip display I averaged 71mpg at 65mph with the cruise control on. It was a lovely warm day though so no heater or headlights on. Total average for the 15,500 miles the car has done is 60mpg.

If I pop down to Waitrose about 1.5 miles away, the  engine runs for a couple of minutes and only cuts in occasionally after that. The rest of the time it runs on the Battery.

If it wasn't for the "elephant in the room" under the back seat I would keep the car.

[jthspace]

22 minutes ago, Chas G said:

If it wasn't for the "elephant in the room" under the back seat I would keep the car.

Change the 🐘for a 🐅

😂

[Serban]

Sounds normal to me in cold weather. What you want only happens in warm weather.

[dcweather]

Not so with the older 2014 Yaris. Literally just had to pop out for a very short drive (had to take some heavy stuff up the road to the alotment). Was 1C overnight, 9C outside, it started up in EV only and drove 100 yds up incline before it cut out though still couldn't hear the engine, then it is quieter anyway than the cross because of the 16" wheels. The engine seems much quieter though that may be because it is lighter and has more soundproofing. The Cross has zero in the boot so I'm guessing none under the thinfloor carpet either.

[dcweather]

9 hours ago, Bernard Foy said:

It will improve with warmer weather and of course as the engine loosens out. I have noticed that the Mark 4 1.5 engine doesn't reach its maximum performance until at least 15000 miles are on the clock.

An explanation but maybe not good news because that will take me over two years and I probably won't have it by then!

[dcweather]

9 hours ago, flash22 said:

does the YC get long fast runs? get some heat in the engine and give the GPF a chance to clear, you will always get lower MPG on e10 fuels, especially in the winter

Well it's only done 550 miles but some of them were motorway and most 50 mph or down B road lanes. What is GPF?

[dcweather]

9 hours ago, Cyker said:

You'll have to get used to it I'm afraid - The batteries in the new Yaris and Cross are smaller than they have been in any other previous hybrid (Even the Yaris Mk3's one is nearly twice the capacity of the Mk4's!), so they tend to cycle between the engine and electrics much more frequently.

Mine almost never runs on EV from starting, maybe if I've stopped briefly and them moved off again, but virtually never in the morning.

But that's all by design - Remember, it's not an EV: It's a very very efficient petrol car, and the battery is only there to capture wasted energy. Having a small battery has actually improved efficiency over the previous models, as it's much lighter, and by making the engine cycle more often it stops it loosing too much temp, which would cause a bigger hit to efficiency over the journey.

It can be a bit annoying for people used to the buttery smooth 4-pots, as the 3-cylinder is quite unrefined by comparison (I'm curious to see how the addition of a balancer shaft in the new 130HP version fares!), but as a former DERV head I find the dakka quite soothing  

 

Funny none of the reviews ever mentioned any of this nor ,of course the sales people or anybody on here a year ago when I was planning it. In fact they all said it was a better engine and smoother experience than before. It seems everything I liked about the Yaris has gone! I am gutted.

[hind]

5 minutes ago, dcweather said:

GPF

Gasoline particulate filter

Like a DPF but for petrol car

[dcweather]

5 hours ago, Cyker said:

The biggest loss of mpg in winter in the newer hybrids, aside from tyre pressures etc., is the use of the heater - At low/urban speeds especially it sucks heat out of the engine faster than it can put it back from combustion (Mostly because at low speed the engine spends more time off), and it will literally waste energy running to generate heat.

If you can do without heat, you can get near-summer mpg by turning the heating off, or only turning it on when you're on faster roads, but I've come round to the argument you're better off sacrificing some mpg than freezing your proverbials off  

Soon you'll all be telling me it's running on the same technology as my 1961 minivan! 😂 What about the heated seats and steering wheel which was another big selling point for me, do they affect it. I thought they ran off the auxillary - you know the one where there is the world's longest thread about it going flat!  And the tyres? They came to me at 40 psi all round (was that to make me think it was more economical than it is) because the handbook says32 front and 29 psi back so that's what I set them at. Or should I go back to even more bone jarring pothole settings?😮

[dcweather]

10 minutes ago, hind said:

Gasoline particulate filter

Like a DPF but for petrol car

👍

[Cyker]

Pfft, only 40psi? Mine were at 60 when I collected it!    

And if there's one thing with most car reviewers it's they don't know jack - Half of them were still talking about how sluggish the new Yaris was and the rubber band effect from the cones and belts in its CVT, which anyone who's driven the new ones knows is total smeg - The car is extremely responsive and any one with half a brain should know by now the hybrid system isn't really a CVT, it just pretends to be one, and definitely doesn't have any belts or cones in it! (Seriously people, it's been like, 20 years!)

As for the heated seats, yes all that runs off the 12v system, but once you turn the car on the whole 12v system is powered by the high-voltage system, i.e. the big traction battery; The 12v battery's ONLY job is to keep the standby electrics running when the car is off; As soon as you turn it on, the big high-voltage relays close and the high-voltage Battery takes over powering everything. (That's probably why Toyota thought they could get away with a smaller lighter 12v Battery, but it seems they underestimated how badly turkey can make a Battery  ).

For economy, using the heated seats+wheel is *much* better than using the engine heat, and has a far lower impact on mpg - Probably about the same effect on mpg as the aircon (i.e. very little. Maybe 1-2 mpg??) - I'm very jealous as the non-Cross Yaris doesn't even get that as an option so I have to choose between freezing or sizeable mpg drop 

The new cars do have a lot of compromises but you won't find a more efficient car on sale that's as responsive. And at least you get heated seats! (I'm still mad Toyota UK are deliberately keeping them off the normal Yaris!)

 

[hind]

1 hour ago, dcweather said:

they all said it was a better engine and smoother experience than before

 And what about your feelings from the test drive? Because you did test the similar car prior to buying one, didn't you?