New Cts Test

[Nick-Johnson]

Well your not doing yourself any favours lets put it that way, you see to have a debate it is important to listen to what people say before challenging there comments!

I think it is wrong for you SKG to make allegations about the CTR considering you haven’t driven both (take it you haven’t) I feel I can talk in comfort as I have owned both!

But I have never said the Corolla is a poor car once, and I never will!

[SKG]

Actually Nick, if you read the previous posts carefully, I am the one being accused of not allowing people expressing their opinions and I am also the one being called so many names!

Does it make sense?

And I am repeating the same thing I said on my first post fighting you: No, you can't be objective because you have owned both cars. Because you made a choice! And if this choice suits you, well done! But leave other people have their own mind about a CTR and a CTS.

It doesn't make you a God having owned both of them!

[exon16m]

Dont close this thread. Its amusing me too much

I swear are we all 5 years old ???

Most threads on this forum are to do with performance upgrades or something has gone wrong any one had this happen whats wrong theme.

But i will start of a positive thread for all positive comments about the CTS

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24964

[Toyosupra[pt]]

Dont close this topic about cts (or about ctr? )

I suggest that the mod's delete the answers witch dont's respect the subject of the topic

[PaulT]

I think this topic should be pinned, then any time somebody mentions the CTS and CTR in the same post we can all point to this one and say "This is what happened last time"

Cheers

Paul.

[bzn]

What I think SKG is trying to say is that CTS figures are pretty low and instead of criticizing the car all the time and saying that the CTR is better, we should attract new buyers, so that Toyota treats the project more seriously and might improve the car, which, of course, is good for most us!

[Yarisboy]

Is it just me or has there never been a good CTS writeup in a magazine/tv show?

It's ALWAYS criticised for being too heavy, having a poor chasis, etc

I'm not trying to spark off another blazing row, I just wondered why none of the 'pros' prefer it over the CTR.

[bzn]

Because sporty hatches aren't toyota's cup of tea. Honda have the got hold of the market firmly in the recent years. So have they got hold of all these "pros" and what they say!

[Yarisboy]

Yes, I'm sure honda paid off Clarkson & co to say nice things about the CTR and terrible things about the CTS....

We're talking about independent reviewers here who get paid independently of whatever they're reviewing.

[bzn]

Even if they don't pay anything, Toyota doesn't emphasize on the CTS. Over here, if you go to a Honda dealer, all you will see on the walls are type-r posters (the accord, civic, integra) and the managers will tell you that honda is a sport-oriented company. On the contrary, in the toyota dealer's showroom you are more likely to see a smiling family with two kids and load's of goods that fit magically into the corolla! And that's what toyota were always emphasizing on! And even for a company like that it's hard to switch profile in a couple of years!

We're talking about independent reviewers here who get paid independently of whatever they're reviewing.

Over here, reviewers like that just don't exist! If they don't pay them anything, they take them to some presentations in, say, spain and give them a week in a suite! Whatever they present, you won't be able to say any thing really bad!

[Yarisboy]

personally I thought the t-sport was a nice car

and it seems most of its owners do as well (albeit terribly defensively)

average blokey review

but take a look at a 'pro' review and it's always the same story

AA review

with quotes like

"Corolla T Sport looks good and handles well, but Toyota's desire to attract younger customers without scaring off the valuable older cliental makes it feel a bit compromised."

and

"Honda Civic Type-R Fellow Japanese hot hatch is far hotter and less compromised"

It cannot be a coincidence that so many of these tsport reviews are the same can it?

[bzn]

First of all they are correct. CTS is not the top performace hatch out there, and if that's what they're looking for, then the CTR is surely better.

Over here there are reviewers who say that a CTR is too hard and that a CTS is optimal, while others say that the CTS isn't even quick!

No car can be best in everything, and if the chief editor tells the reviewer to look at the CTS and CTR through the prism of out and out performance, the CTS won't stand a chance!

[GD Sport]

and it seems most of its owners do as well (albeit terribly defensively)

average blokey review

:ffs: Who the hell is that John Cassidy guy who wrote that review and "supplied" the photograph of my car!!

[Aphelion]

I found that AA review quite intresting, didn't sound like the person who drove it realy spent much time in the car, loads of things they mentioned seem strange.

Engine sounds flat, I think they must be deaf, mine makes an almighty roar.

and saying the pedals and dials will put people off, i personaly think they are an improvement on the facelift models.

The Average review is just crazy no way dose that live up to a balanced review, fair play to the guy he must love his motor.

I think you get the best idea of what a CTS is like from here.

[The Gooner]

At the end of the day if peeps wanted a CTR they would have bought one. They are after all priced the same. So maybe it is creature comforts, not so harshness driving that us CTS owners are after, I know this is what appealed to me more over the CTR, I test drove em both and fully admit after throwing my mates CTR around the CTS isnt as tight on the twisty bits, straight line performance althought the CTR edges it, its not that much quicker (even my CTR mate said same after driving my CTS).

So personnely I prefer the CTS over CTR because it isnt quite as verociuos to drive. It suits a family car as well as the fun when Im on my own.

If its speed and road holding that you want then maybe the CTR or CTS isnt best car to buy, look around see what you could get for £15000 second hand today.

You will pick up something that will blow both cars away easily, but is it what you really want.

The CTS is a good all round performance car, for your average joe bloggs it has all drivability that anyone needs, it has good power when called upon and handles reasonably well.

Lets put the CTS v CTR to rest, they both have good and bad points depending on what you want from your car, we have made our choices. :D I know Im happy with mine :D

[Yarisboy]

you know what Gooner, that is an excellent summary - well put

I enjoyed driving the CTS mainly due to the 6200-8200 band, but you do get alot for your money and it's more bareable than the CTR as an every day vehicle in my opinion.

I like it :)

[The Gooner]

Thanks Yarisboy

[SKG]

I do agree with these reports over here. I just need to add one more dimension probably.

I guess Toyota also offers Celica TS (is there some Honda car corresponding for this one?) so they never planned to make CTS the absolute hatch, not to compromise Celica's market share. As a matter of fact, I think that CTS is more a car that would go with an 150 bhp engine. However, they had the 192 bhp engine so they (accidentaly I would say) lifted CTS to another league where they never planned the car to be!

Could this be something to consider?

[Yarisboy]

You can guarantee that that the corolla Tsport was not an accident... lol.

Toyota are very aware of Honda and their type-r civic

Civc: hondas hatch

Corolla: toyotas hatch

2.0 VTEC: 197bhp

1.8 VVTLI: 190bhp

Type R

Tsport

See the connection?

It's a direct rival to the civic TR, without being so... obvious!

[Nick-Johnson]

Unfortunately Honda Celica T-Sport rival has never been imported into the U, the DC5 Integra Type-R didn’t come to the UK because Honda feared it would lose out on sales of the Civic Type-R!

Many though have been imported!

[SKG]

yarisboy, you probably have a point there. However, I don't know what's exactly the situation in UK but in other parts of the world, CTR is as expensive as Celica TS when you try to match the trim levels. So, pricewise at least CTR is closer to Celica than CTS... And the VVTLi was initially developed for the Celica and not the Corolla.

P.S. (Nick, so what's your real point now? That there is a always a better Honda car, even than Celica TS, isn't it? Thank you for sharing your objectiveness with us once more.)

[Yarisboy]

Here you can pay £20k for a spec'd up Tsport Celica (LOL, rip off)

The CTR is around £16k

CTS can be had for £14k (or that's what my local dealer was offering them to me at)

[bzn]

I wouldn't agree there. I think that Toyota decided to give the corolla range a hot hatch just to heat up the younger buyer's interest to the car. It's no secret that the average age of a corolla buyer is quite big!

Today, integra is a civic-platform coupe with the same K20 as the CTR, but here it's the k20c version, pumping out 220 hp. It's got more power, much better brakes and a much more track-tuned supension than the Celica.

It's simply much hotter (whilst being in the same price range i think). But i would prefer the celica as an everyday car...

Conserning the similarities between the marketing of CTS and CTR, i just think toyota wanted to use a strategy that has already beet tested.

[Nick-Johnson]

With all the suspension changes, torsion beams under the bonnet it clear that Toyota is responding to something. Its seems clear to me that this was an attempt to raise the level of sporty ness I have already heard of owners with 04 models making remarks about stiffness of the suspension.

Nick

[Toyosupra[pt]]

why don't cts use the same suspension of celica tsport? <_<