Non-toyota Tpms

[Hoovie]

Been discussions on TPMS (Tyre Pressure Monitoring Systems) here and I mentioned that I think the principle is a great idea and I have been looking at aftermarket solutions.

Just thought I would post some info on the one that has particularly caught my eye with a view to retro-fit to my RAV4 ....

System Features

The system can be configured to display pressures in psi, bar, or kg/cm3. The user can specify the high and low pressure warning thresholds as well as high temperature warning threshold. If the pressures or temperature change from the specified limits the system will alarm to warn the driver. The system will also detect a rapid deflation that might still be within the set limits. This feature is vital in warning the driver as early as possible to a tyre problem.

• Supplied with internal sensors. No unsightly external sensors that you find in cheaper systems elsewhere.
  
• External sensors can be stolen with ease. The internal sensors we supply means no one will even know that you have a TPMS fitted to your car.
  
• Receiver has internal Battery, so no need to have wires all over your dashboard. Supplied with car charger for your convenience.
  
• Backlight screen with sensor. Comes on automatically when it gets dark.
  
• Intelligent warning system that alerts you quickly if tyre deflates suddenly.
  
• Sensors have a 5 year Battery life.
  

This is the kit

Shame you don't get a 5th sensor for the spare wheel - IIRC, another extra sensor can be bought for £25

Display shows info for all 4 wheels

Sensors are pre-configured for specific wheels

But can be reconfigured via a menu to move them around.

Sensors are rated to last 5 years before Battery fails, and battery is not replacable, which effectively means this system has a 5-year life cycle.

Quite a neat display

Guy on eBay selling for £97 inc Postage

TPMS Here

Spoke to the tyre fitting company I got a quote from for a new set of tyres and asked them if they charged for fitting TPMS systems and they said that if it was fitted at same time as new tyres and the the system was a Valve based one (as opposed to a band-one) they would fit for free.

[shcm]

I'll be interested to see how you get on with that.

I know that when some of the lads were developing TPMS at work, a great deal of application work had to be done with the car makers to get receive antenna positions correct etc, for the system to work to a high level of repeatability. It's actually more difficult that most people would imaging. Snow, ice, different wheel rims, different tyres can all have a major effect on repeatability.

Mind you, that system was designed for a 10 year Battery life. As this one is 5 years, maybe the valve transmit power is a good deal higher, which would would make things a lot easier.

Cheers

[Hoovie]

got more worried now I tend to over-research things when I buy something a little 'off the wall' but don't remember any mention of problems with positioning and transmitting info - but what you are saying makes sense, especially considering the fact the tyres are spinning who knows how many times a minute for one springs to mind, as well as the ones you mentioned (and people trying to sell you something don't tend to highlight possible flaws :) )

One reason I am interested in this is the last two punctures I have had have each cost me more then this system and I reckon both costs could have been avoided with an early warning and could have had a simple repair instead

[three5]

got more worried now I tend to over-research things when I buy something a little 'off the wall' but don't remember any mention of problems with positioning and transmitting info - but what you are saying makes sense, especially considering the fact the tyres are spinning who knows how many times a minute for one springs to mind, as well as the ones you mentioned (and people trying to sell you something don't tend to highlight possible flaws :) )

One reason I am interested in this is the last two punctures I have had have each cost me more then this system and I reckon both costs could have been avoided with an early warning and could have had a simple repair instead

Hi Hoovie,

I'm with you on this one. If all you have in the boot is a tube of gunk and a compressor your chances of repairing the tyre MUST be far greater if you spot the puncture before the tyre is seriously deflated. Fail to spot before the tyre fully deflates and you can leave the gunk in the boot for all the good it will do. If you did manage to reinflate a tyre with a shredded wall you would be taking your life in your hands driving on it as any it would surely blow out in a few miles. The XT5 handbook illustrates the sort of punctures not repairable with gunk but fails to mention sidewall damage which is invisable with the tyre on the wheel. :o

It happened to me on a Vitara ( with a spare wheel! ) and the guy at the tyre depot, who was very helpful, showed me how the tyre walls were damaged as the tyre lost pressure. Result: new tyre rather than a simple repair to a hole caused by a nail. It was only 25 miles since I had last visually checked the tyres. I like the look of this one: http://www.tyresure.com/index.htm just 'cause it's nice and simple but haven't found a supplier yet. Are you considering fitting a system in the near future?

Best regards

Chris

[Hoovie]

Hi Chris,

I am 95% sure I will be fitting a TPMS system when I get the tyres replaced, but due to the Battery life limits, I am not buying until I am about to replace.

I was looking at various options and the Tyresure one looks better as far as the display goes at least then the one I saw on eBay but it costs £295 rather then £97

I got the price for the Tyresure by following a link from a really good and informative website that explained and described all the various TPMS solutions and pros and cons of each one without actually promoting a specific product, so seemed to me very unbiased.

Annoying I cannot find it again :censor: :censor: - If I find that website again, I will post it.

[Hoovie]

Update:

Not found the site I wanted, but found the Tyresure for sale

Tyresure Tyre Pressure Monitoring System

£179 Inc VAT, so nowhere near as bad as I thought :)

[Fujisan]

Just very slightly off-topic, I'm sure I read somewhere that someone high up in Europe wants all new cars fitted with TPMS, as well as ESP, sometime in the near future.

[three5]

Just very slightly off-topic, I'm sure I read somewhere that someone high up in Europe wants all new cars fitted with TPMS, as well as ESP, sometime in the near future.

Wonder what the cost of TPMS and gunk is compared with RFT's? SCHM would probably have a better idea than anyone. If I were in the market for, say, an SR180, I think that if I had the choice I'd go for the TPMS + gunk rather than risk not being able to get the RFT repaired outside working hours. At least I could get an ordinary tyre supplier to deal with the problem. Would this be a more acceptable solution generally that RFT? How would you vote!

Best regards

Chris

[Fujisan]

Just very slightly off-topic, I'm sure I read somewhere that someone high up in Europe wants all new cars fitted with TPMS, as well as ESP, sometime in the near future.

Wonder what the cost of TPMS and gunk is compared with RFT's? SCHM would probably have a better idea than anyone. If I were in the market for, say, an SR180, I think that if I had the choice I'd go for the TPMS + gunk rather than risk not being able to get the RFT repaired outside working hours. At least I could get an ordinary tyre supplier to deal with the problem. Would this be a more acceptable solution generally that RFT? How would you vote!

Best regards

Chris

Correct me if I'm wrong, for I know very little about TPMS, but it was my understanding that gunk and TPMS don't like it each very much!

Has in, if you use gunk on a TPMS equiped wheel, you kill the TPMS sensor.

[three5]

Just very slightly off-topic, I'm sure I read somewhere that someone high up in Europe wants all new cars fitted with TPMS, as well as ESP, sometime in the near future.

Wonder what the cost of TPMS and gunk is compared with RFT's? SCHM would probably have a better idea than anyone. If I were in the market for, say, an SR180, I think that if I had the choice I'd go for the TPMS + gunk rather than risk not being able to get the RFT repaired outside working hours. At least I could get an ordinary tyre supplier to deal with the problem. Would this be a more acceptable solution generally that RFT? How would you vote!

Best regards

Chris

Correct me if I'm wrong, for I know very little about TPMS, but it was my understanding that gunk and TPMS don't like it each very much!

Has in, if you use gunk on a TPMS equiped wheel, you kill the TPMS sensor.

Hi Fuji,

for the current generation of TPMS you are undoubtedly correct. I realise now that I didn't say this, but was thinking of future development where you had compatibility between the systems. Would, in your opinion, motor vehicle manufacturers be better concentrating on developing TPMS/gunk rather than RFT? Suppose for instance, you had two valve holes in a wheel, one for inflation and the other for TPMS? might even help with balance!

sorry for the confusion!

Best regards

Chris

[shcm]

Well it's probably a mistake making sweeping generalisation, but yes, some systems do not mix well with gunk.

Raw component cost for a TPMS valve is probably around £5 in high volume. Say £10 to £15 for a low spec ECU. Sorry, you certainly won't pay that as a customer, but there are production, distribution costs and everybody in the chain (component supplier, vehicle manufacturer, dealer) has to have their cut so they can at least eat :D.

I think (could be wrong) in Europe there is a requirement (or at least a "Gentleman's agreement"), that if the vehicle has run flats and therefore stiff side-walls TPMS will be fitted. I too have something in the back of my head that Europe is considering making it mandatory on all vehicles. I think, mainly concerned with correct pressures in Europe for fuel consumption reasons, rather than the US, where it was partly roll-over etc concerned.

Slightly off topic: chap at work has a company honka Accord. Three punctures. Three times had to call out RAC, because gunk didn't work He's not impressed with honka. Other problems too such as sticking EGR.

[three5]

Well it's probably a mistake making sweeping generalisation, but yes, some systems do not mix well with gunk.

Raw component cost for a TPMS valve is probably around £5 in high volume. Say £10 to £15 for a low spec ECU. Sorry, you certainly won't pay that as a customer, but there are production, distribution costs and everybody in the chain (component supplier, vehicle manufacturer, dealer) has to have their cut so they can at least eat :D.

I think (could be wrong) in Europe there is a requirement (or at least a "Gentleman's agreement"), that if the vehicle has run flats and therefore stiff side-walls TPMS will be fitted. I too have something in the back of my head that Europe is considering making it mandatory on all vehicles. I think, mainly concerned with correct pressures in Europe for fuel consumption reasons, rather than the US, where it was partly roll-over etc concerned.

Slightly off topic: chap at work has a company honka Accord. Three punctures. Three times had to call out RAC, because gunk didn't work He's not impressed with honka. Other problems too such as sticking EGR.

Er, sorry for my ignorance, but what's EGR? ( just so I can appear less ignorant in future ;) )

Best regards

Chris

[Robert6920]

Er, sorry for my ignorance, but what's EGR? ( just so I can appear less ignorant in future ;) )

Best regards

Chris

EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation. A way of reducing emissions. It's a bit like astronauts recycling their "water"...... rather them than me...

[Hoovie]

fitting aftermarket TPMS to vehicles with GUNK-systems I would *think* (based on opinion, not knowledge :) ) could be a problem with the value 'ingesting' the gunk as well?

I guess the TPMS with the external sensors that fit on the outside of the valve would be safe, but then you have the theft issue to deal with :(

The may be sensors insome systems that work rather then air-pressure read by a valve, but rather work on a sealed sensor that records an amount of compression exerted by an external force - and if that sensor was INSIDE the tyre/wheel then the EXTERNAL force would be the air in the tyre (Not sure if that makes sense, but if have have gone scuba-diving and seen things compress as you go deeper so have a greate water pressure exerted on them, it may do? :) )

I am sure you are right about a requirement to have TPMS with run-flats and I would be surprised if TPMS did not become mandatory within a few years.

[shcm]

Would, in your opinion, motor vehicle manufacturers be better concentrating on developing TPMS/gunk rather than RFT? Suppose for instance, you had two valve holes in a wheel, one for inflation and the other for TPMS? might even help with balance!

Chris,

I haven't worked on TPMS directly, but know people who have, so my knowledge may not be completely up to date.

The electronics inside the valve has to sample the pressure inside the tyre. You need to apply the air pressure to the sensing element some how. If you look at this link

http://www.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc...SFS.pdf?fsrch=1

and the picture of the little black box with legs at the top of the page, it has a hole in the centre. This is the pressure sensing port that needs to be exposed to the air pressure inside the tyre. I expect if you get gunk in there, the sensor will fail. Whether you could provide some sort of shield without affecting the sensor, I wouldn't like to speculate.

Not sure that two valve holes would solve this.

Cheers

EDIT:

There are so called indirect TPMS systems, which do allegedly clever things with the ABS/VSC wheel speed signals, but they are generally more difficult to get working to an acceptable level.

[three5]

Er, sorry for my ignorance, but what's EGR? ( just so I can appear less ignorant in future ;) )

Best regards

Chris

EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation. A way of reducing emissions. It's a bit like astronauts recycling their "water"...... rather them than me...

Thankyou Robert :) - wonder if we should have a list of all these abreviations somewhere for us less technical guys?

Best regards

Chris

[Robert6920]

Thankyou Robert :) - wonder if we should have a list of all these abreviations somewhere for us less technical guys?

Best regards

Chris

Yes, we should - but there again, Google's a wonderful thing!

I used to be an Air Traffic Controller and, boy, did we have loads of abbreviations, acronyms and such like. It was all part of a carefully devised plan to enhance the "mystique" and therefore increase our salaries (and it worked! )

I now mess about with airports and am involved in a project called SESAR. The "definition phase" is over and the output is....... is....... is....... a thirty page glossary of terms. It's a completely different language!

Sorry about that - I feel better now

[three5]

Would, in your opinion, motor vehicle manufacturers be better concentrating on developing TPMS/gunk rather than RFT? Suppose for instance, you had two valve holes in a wheel, one for inflation and the other for TPMS? might even help with balance!

Chris,

I haven't worked on TPMS directly, but know people who have, so my knowledge may not be completely up to date.

The electronics inside the valve has to sample the pressure inside the tyre. You need to apply the air pressure to the sensing element some how. If you look at this link

http://www.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc...SFS.pdf?fsrch=1

and the picture of the little black box with legs at the top of the page, it has a hole in the centre. This is the pressure sensing port that needs to be exposed to the air pressure inside the tyre. I expect if you get gunk in there, the sensor will fail. Whether you could provide some sort of shield without affecting the sensor, I wouldn't like to speculate.

Not sure that two valve holes would solve this.

Hi SCHM,

'was thinking of using the second hole for the pressure transducer/transmitter so that a) it would be somewhere (cheap) to hold the assembly in place ( and maybe the tyre fitter would be less likely to damage it when working on the wheel if it was obvious from the outside ) and B) provide an interface with the atmosphere as a reference pressure. It might be possible to use a stiff diaphram/thin film strain gauge for the transducer?

Best regards

Chris

Cheers

EDIT:

There are so called indirect TPMS systems, which do allegedly clever things with the ABS/VSC wheel speed signals, but they are generally more difficult to get working to an acceptable level.

[three5]

Thankyou Robert :) - wonder if we should have a list of all these abreviations somewhere for us less technical guys?

Best regards

Chris

Yes, we should - but there again, Google's a wonderful thing!

I used to be an Air Traffic Controller and, boy, did we have loads of abbreviations, acronyms and such like. It was all part of a carefully devised plan to enhance the "mystique" and therefore increase our salaries (and it worked! )

I now mess about with airports and am involved in a project called SESAR. The "definition phase" is over and the output is....... is....... is....... a thirty page glossary of terms. It's a completely different language!

Sorry about that - I feel better now

Think nothing of it Robert! The trouble with three letter acronynms is that the same one means different things in different industries - often with very odd results!

Chris

[anchorman]

Does this help?

Abbreviations.pdf

[three5]

Does this help?

Thanks Anchorman - that should cover just about everything! ( Er, there won't be an exam will there? )

Best regards

Chris :)

[Fujisan]

Does this help?

Thanks Anchorman - that should cover just about everything! ( Er, there won't be an exam will there? )

Best regards

Chris :)

EXAM!

[Hoovie]

Quick pic of the TPMS Display fitted in the RAV4

Display is mounted in an adapted TomTom Swivel bracket via Velcro. Other end of swivel bracket is screwed onto lower part of Ashtray so no holes or screws are visible.

Not got the sensors fitted yet to the wheels, so nothing on display.

Power lead is a bit ugly but nothing can be done about that I think (since taking the photo, I have routed it more neatly of course, but it still sticks out of the display before tucking behind and running into the ashtray and hard-wired to fused +12V supply)

Tried adapting a Tom-Tom right angled connector which looks a whole lot better, but it seems the pin out used is slighty different then normal mini-USB (the display uses +12V supply, whereas mini-USB power leads usually provide a +5V supply so I think this may be deliberate to avoid interchange problems)

Also checked price of a 5th Sensor to fit on spare wheel - £45 including a valve and postage - so I think I will not bother with that!

[shcm]

Good Stuff Hoovie Look forward to seeing working pics.

You'll soon have more stuff to monitor than a typhoon cockpit does.

So, maybe we need to start thinking of some sort of head up display for you :D

[three5]

Good Stuff Hoovie Look forward to seeing working pics.

You'll soon have more stuff to monitor than a typhoon cockpit does.

So, maybe we need to start thinking of some sort of head up display for you :D

Head up display - NOW there is an idea. Like Hoovie, I'm struggling to find a suitable place for TPMS. I think that my particular problem is that Toyota have used just about all of the sensible space for displays. It's either a HUD or going to some sort of operating system where you can make the existing display ( used for the satnav etc ) programmable so that it can devide the screen into, dare I say the word, Windows for different applications!

Anchorman said that he felt he might run into the back of the vehicle in front if he had the same amount of info on tap as Hoovie - Hmmmm! he might just be right AGAIN!