Water Pump Leak, 2.2 D4d.

[HEMI]

Once you've got rid of the eng mounting bracket and removed the pulley you should be able to get a hand and tools in there easy,theres loads of room,it looks like the same amount of room for a cambelt replacement on the 4.2's and we dont take the engine out for that.That must be the easiest 9 hours @ £100 going.lmao

[local hero]

Excuse my ignorance but what does a leaking water pump mean? is the waterpump worn out at 35000? or are we talking a leaking seal of some kind?+ don't laugh but would a radiator sealant work, On my cab i have recently used something called K SEAL which costs £13 + is the only product of this kind which actually worked ( cured my leaking rad ) but it says on the container will cure MOST leaks headgasket, core plugs etc, I cannot endorse the product other than to say it worked for me, so far saving me a £400 bill.. Stew

[JHRC]

When my water pump was replace I had only done 18000 miles and the sevice manager did say that it could be done with the engine inplace, but was easier for them to remove the engine.

[anchorman]

Excuse my ignorance but what does a leaking water pump mean? is the waterpump worn out at 35000? or are we talking a leaking seal of some kind?+ don't laugh but would a radiator sealant work, On my cab i have recently used something called K SEAL which costs £13 + is the only product of this kind which actually worked ( cured my leaking rad ) but it says on the container will cure MOST leaks headgasket, core plugs etc, I cannot endorse the product other than to say it worked for me, so far saving me a £400 bill.. Stew

Stew

The water pump is normally belt driven so therefor mounted on the front of the engine;

Water_pump_ftv.pdf

It consists of a shaft driven impellor which simply throws water outward (and in this case into the cylinder block where it circulates around the engine). The shaft is supported on 2 bearings and there is a sealing arrangement to stop coolant getting out or contaminating the bearings. Just in case some water does get by the seals, there is a weep hole which will let it out rather than submerge the bearings and quickly destroy them. Have a look at this which shows the cutaway drawing but note the weep hole on one of the diagrams.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/how_to_cen...366.html?page=2

Although in theory there should be no water getteing past the seals, in practice it is hard to get a 100% reliable seal because the performance of the seal is affected by temperature and when the engine stands the shaft is loaded unevenly by the drive belt which pushes on one side of the seal. When the engine is started the seal is left with a "hollow" pressure point but this is usually relieved as the temperature rises and the seal becomes supple and takes up its normal shape. Modern pumps have hi tech glands and ceramic discs etc but again these work better dynamically rather then when the engine is stopped. During this period it is not uncommon for a pump to weep a tiny amount of coolant and if you look underneath you might see what HEMI correctly describes as a "furry pink stain". It is not detrimental and although I can't see mine from on top, the next time I have the sump shield off I will photograph it and I fully expect to see such a stain. It certainly isn't losing any coolant and although technically Mr T is right to flag it the chances are that after the next winter a new pump will show similar signs.

Because the seals are dynamic I doubt if any sealing additive will work. Modern Coolant contains lubricating and corrosion additives and shouldn't need any more. The stuff you refer to is more for a static condition like a leaky seal between a radiator core and the header tanks.

Regards

Ancs

[rav man]

Car was registered 31st of March 2006 , so is 3 years and 3 months old. I will be contacting some independents and getting some quotes, i am shocked at the cost to replace and will be getting a second opinion (as to whether its leaking or a bit of the furry build up)

I cannot just go and pay £900 ( i dont have that kind of spare cash knocking about unfortunately, especially in these times).

Brought to the attention of thsi boards users as , one to find out if any others had experianced this proble, is it an emerging problem and howmuch has been charged in other cases.

I now need to research if the job can be done without the engine out as is being suggested. Am i right in reading that it has been done on a 4.3 2.2D4d without the engine out.

R

[anchorman]

Car was registered 31st of March 2006 , so is 3 years and 3 months old. I will be contacting some independents and getting some quotes, i am shocked at the cost to replace and will be getting a second opinion (as to whether its leaking or a bit of the furry build up)

I cannot just go and pay £900 ( i dont have that kind of spare cash knocking about unfortunately, especially in these times).

Brought to the attention of thsi boards users as , one to find out if any others had experianced this proble, is it an emerging problem and howmuch has been charged in other cases.

I now need to research if the job can be done without the engine out as is being suggested. Am i right in reading that it has been done on a 4.3 2.2D4d without the engine out.

R

No. We think it can be done but we are not aware of one being done in situ so far.

I think you have a good case for a "policy warranty claim" as you can easily argue that it has been weeping like that for some time. Whether it can be considered an emerging problem (as you are no doubt aware there is another case been reported recently) or whether the dealers have started spotting this problem which might otherwise go unnoticed but generates a bit of work we don't really know yet. This all part of the bigger 4.3 learning curve.

Were you aware of it losing water before they flagged up the water pump?

[moonstone mart]

There is no way you need to remove the engine to do a waterpump on any 2/2.2 or 2.2 D-Cat! lol

They are pretty easy to do with engine in situ on RAV4,Verso,Avensis and Auris.....have done enough ;)

Not read everything on this post but it shouldnt cost anywhere near £900!!

Mart. :)

[anchorman]

Thanks Mart

That's the confirmation we were looking for.

[local hero]

There is no way you need to remove the engine to do a waterpump on any 2/2.2 or 2.2 D-Cat! lol

They are pretty easy to do with engine in situ on RAV4,Verso,Avensis and Auris.....have done enough ;)

Not read everything on this post but it shouldnt cost anywhere near £900!!

Mart. :)

This is obviously great news for all of us with 4.3s, but more worrying to me is simply who do we trust? without naming names i have had a few bad experiences with my local Toyota dealers + consequently do not use them anymore, prefering to take my car to a dealer 35 miles away where so far i have had excellent service albeit for 2 services + the fitting of a couple of accesories + now it appears that same dealer is quoting £900 for a job which by all accounts could be done cheaper, i am none technical + will pay any bill on my car as long as (A) the job is done properly, and (B.) The price is a fair reflection of the work carried out.. It rather makes me wonder if i shouldn't take my very hard earned money to a reliable independant that i can trust Stew

[Davrav]

There is no way you need to remove the engine to do a waterpump on any 2/2.2 or 2.2 D-Cat! lol

They are pretty easy to do with engine in situ on RAV4,Verso,Avensis and Auris.....have done enough ;)

Not read everything on this post but it shouldnt cost anywhere near £900!!

Mart. :)

When you say you 'have done enough', does that indicate that this is a fairly common failure on these engines?

[moonstone mart]

There is no way you need to remove the engine to do a waterpump on any 2/2.2 or 2.2 D-Cat! lol

They are pretty easy to do with engine in situ on RAV4,Verso,Avensis and Auris.....have done enough ;)

Not read everything on this post but it shouldnt cost anywhere near £900!!

Mart. :)

When you say you 'have done enough', does that indicate that this is a fairly common failure on these engines?

Not overly common - but working at a dealership you do see a few. Seems to be Avensis have most probs (customer doesnt check levels/coolant drops/engine overheats and damages headgasket) This is very expensive if the head is warped as you arent supposed to skim them.

Alot of people think if their car is serviced once a year it doesnt need the bonnet lifting between that....i had to put 2.9 litres of oil in one car this week just to top it upto the max level!

Keep an eye on your levels and it could save you a HUUGE repair bill :)

Mart.

[rich1]

Hi everyone,

Just a thought, I had a MR2 Roadster for 3 years and was a part of the MR2 roadster owners club with an excellent forum similar to this. Some owners had major problems with Pre Cats which the majority of us removed as there was some evidence of these breaking up up and being sucked back into the engine causing all kinds of damage. To cut a long story short, people gathered evidence from the forum of similar problems up and down the country and contacted Toyota head office/customer services etc. toyota though never admitting there was a problem, made a contribution to the repair of some of the cars. I am sure that if there is a major problem that is apparent on all 2.2D 4.3 of the water pump needing replacing just after 3 years, then we should shout it from the rooftops and approach Toyota about this.

Any thoughts anyone????

Maybe a quick survey to see how many people have had them replaced would show if this is an ongoing problem and would give HEMI some much needed ammo!

[Frank Ashworth]

Hi everyone,

My three year old RAV (29000mls) is also having the water pump changed under warranty on Thursday, The garage assures me it can be done without removing the engine, they have done a few others.

on the service they also had the sump off to re seal it, there was a leak between sump and engine block.

But what really concerns me is the gearbox seems to be getting noisier in first and second gear. I remember Morris 1000's used to make the a similar noise.

maybe its time for a change?

Frank

[anchorman]

Blimey stop it Frank you are depressing me!

Water pump OK (and that is all we need to hear to get about £700 back on Rav Mans bill), sump - yes we know some can weep (although we aren't aware of one actually leaking) but now gearboxes!!!

When you compare it to a moggy you mean it whines in 1st and 2nd?

[jospom]

Hi all

Sorry for English, but use a translator to google

In Italy at the moment there are no problems with water pump, the cars may still not have reached 100.000km -> 62,140 mi

Exchange problems exist and is resolved:

1) passing through the crowds

2) using oil Redline MT-90.

jos

[Frank Ashworth]

Blimey stop it Frank you are depressing me!

Water pump OK (and that is all we need to hear to get about £700 back on Rav Mans bill), sump - yes we know some can weep (although we aren't aware of one actually leaking) but now gearboxes!!!

When you compare it to a moggy you mean it whines in 1st and 2nd?

Hi anchorman,

Although there is a slight whine, It's more of a thrashing noise, I can make it worse by holding the accelerator in a position where the vehicle is neither accelerating or slowing down in first or second gears. also at tick over with the vehicle in neutral foot of clutch the gear box makes a noise. The vehicle as towed a 1300 KG caravan for about 8000 mls but I wouldn't have thought that would have put undue stress on the transmission.

I am not unduly worried at this moment in time but If it decieds to fail in 12 to 18 months It would be expensive.

sorry to get your eye twitching ;) but I had a drive in a new Freelander the other day I was really impressed! one thing I did notice It was far quieter in the cab than the Rav.

but I dont think I will buying one they also seem to have reliability problems,

I wounder what the new Subaru Forester Diesel is like?

If it ever gets any worse I will no doubt let you all Know.

Frank

[anchorman]

Okey dokey - eye stabilised!

These boxes do make some strange noises of that nature so I'm more relaxed now. There is quite a lot of backlash in them so I would ignore that.

Now as for this LR thing . Can you really convince me its all over because that is a worry!!! :fishyface:

Subaru should be good though.

[anchorman]

Hi all

Sorry for English, but use a translator to google

In Italy at the moment there are no problems with water pump, the cars may still not have reached 100.000km -> 62,140 mi

Exchange problems exist and is resolved:

1) passing through the crowds

2) using oil Redline MT-90.

jos

Welcome to the club jospom.

There is something lost in the translation in point 1 but I have heard a lot about Redline MT-90. It isn't easy to get here but although I don't dismiss it without trying, these 6 speed boxes demand a very low viscosity oil or shifting in cold weather becomes very difficult. Do you know if somebody is successfully using it in a 6 speed that is subject to cold climate?

[jospom]

Hi all

Sorry for English, but use a translator to google

In Italy at the moment there are no problems with water pump, the cars may still not have reached 100.000km -> 62,140 mi

Exchange problems exist and is resolved:

1) passing through the crowds

2) using oil Redline MT-90.

jos

Welcome to the club jospom.

There is something lost in the translation in point 1 but I have heard a lot about Redline MT-90. It isn't easy to get here but although I don't dismiss it without trying, these 6 speed boxes demand a very low viscosity oil or shifting in cold weather becomes very difficult. Do you know if somebody is successfully using it in a 6 speed that is subject to cold climate?

thanks anchorman

For point 1)

1st and 2nd is noisy, but if 1st -> pause -> 2nd there is no noise.

the compound with mild climates is 80:20, or 80% of MT-90 and 20% of MTL

with cold climates you can safely go on 50:50

This' only valid for changes Valeo.The test was realized on a Yaris 1.3 6 speed.

http://www.redlineoil.com/products.aspx

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Redline-MT-90-race-c...id=p3286.c0.m14

P.S.

I hope I have written in a comprehensible

[anchorman]

Hi Jospom

Your English is much better than my Italian!

I am not familiar with the transmission on the Yaris but I am very familiar with the RAVs twin countershaft design. It uses both double and triple syncromesh cones which are very prone to baulking at lower speeds, hence the need for slower changes you describe. For that reason they do not work well with 75W/90 oil (I know this has been tried). The only oil I have known to be "reasonably" successful is the recommended straight 75 GL5 oil which is very thin for transmission oil.

Does yours have the 80:20 mix described?

E64.pdf

PS Are you an oil distributor?

[rav man]

Ok, cheers for the replies guys (and a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel). Ive been keeping an eye on it and cant see anything , no coolant loss either. Still have the issue that the dealer is saying its £900, now we have established that the part is £88 and that several others (who work at dealerships, are we talking main Toyota dealers here) are saying it can be done (and has been on several occassions in situ). If we are saying this then i am a little anoyed that the estimate is at the higher price than at a lower (wouldnt mind a clue on the cost of those that have been done in situ) one.

Do you see where im coming from here , if it can be done in situ and this is common knowledge amongst the dealers then why have they quoted me the dear price.

There are several possible explanations which i think we can work out , anyway , if possible (and not wishing to compromise anyone) could i have a definate quote of where and when and how much so i can go back to my dealer and say it can be done in situ arguing, ' its been done at ****** Toyota and if you dont believe me ring the service manager there and speak to him'

R

[moonstone mart]

I think your dealer is only quoting the book time for replacing the pump rav man.

If the pump has very minimal residue this could just be a very slight trickle of coolant coming for the spindle seal when it dries when not being used.

If this is the case id just keep an eye on it for now, if coolant loss becomes worse then see about an independent place (that you trust) will replace the pump.

Takes approx 1 - 2 hours if have experience of doing it, sometimes less :)

Mart.

[rav man]

Mart,

Cheers for the info, (just to confirm , double , double . check) you have done one on a 4.3 Model (leaving the engine in).

Cheers

RM B)

[anchorman]

I spoke to the workshop manager at RRG the other day and he says they have done several with the engine in. He also says that the pump leaking is acceptable as they have what they call a "dynamic seal" which is acceptable to leak especially during warm up and cool down. It is basically two elements that are facing each other = one static and one revolving and they just make a contact seal. He said that VWs also weep and they have cured that by putting a red plastic cup under the weep hole to stop anyone from seeing it!

[moonstone mart]

Mart,

Cheers for the info, (just to confirm , double , double . check) you have done one on a 4.3 Model (leaving the engine in).

Cheers

RM B)

Double, double definately done with engine in lol.

Mart.