R4P... Seriously let me down

[philip42h]

14 hours ago, nlee said:

More stupid questions ... sorry! What is the sampling rate of this device? And is the sample a "point in time measurement" or an ""average over the sample period"?

The event at 8:00 looks exactly as I would expect - you unlock the car and open the door so there is an increased demand on the auxiliary Battery and the voltage drops; a short while later, you depress the brake pedal and press the Start button to put the car into Ready mode and the DC/DC converter kicks in to provide 14v+ to recharge the auxiliary Battery. That all makes perfect sense (to me).

At 16:15 you appear to get straight into Ready mode and 14v+ without any preamble at all. Could that be because the preceding 'dip' in voltage simply got lost between sample intervals?

[nlee]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

So, what happen at around 11:20? Did you go and fetch something from the car?

Yes, that's right. But I only unlocked and opened the driver's door. The other 2 smaller dips after that involved opening the boot to get my lunch, sitting in the car (nothing switched on), then locking it. Logically you'd thing the load was less on the 11:20 dip but maybe it charged the brake thingy.

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

When we put the car into reverse we immediately add to the demand on the 12v system by switching on the rear view camera and rear parking sensors. This seems at least a plausible explanation of Nigel's observation that the converter responds by increasing the rate of charge to the auxiliary battery ... ?

It could be something to do with this. However, but I can't be 100% sure, it thought it did this before selecting reverse. Its the only thing that makes sense so I'm going to pay more attention next time. The only other thing that I can think happens is that it connects to my home WiFi outside the house, but I can't believe this would have any effect. Maybe I'll try reversing somewhere else.

[nlee]

5 minutes ago, philip42h said:

More stupid questions ... sorry! What is the sampling rate of this device? And is the sample a "point in time measurement" or an ""average over the sample period"?

No problem, it's a good question and I only got the device so we could share ideas and try to collectively understand what is going on.

The sampling rate on that chart is 1 min intervals. I don't know for sure if it is the average over the minute or the instantaneous reading. I get the feeling it is an average.

There is another chart on the front page that is realtime at a higher time resolution, seems to be every second. It only records on there while connected and only displays 5 mins, then it overwrites, as per screenshot below.

[ernieb]

If it’s cold then possibly the Heat Pump, even with the update to the software mine sounds like it needs a couple of Stepsils  🤢 until it gets going.

[philip42h]

14 minutes ago, nlee said:

The sampling rate on that chart is 1 min intervals

... so it could easily 'miss' or average out a brief drop in voltage as someone got into the car a set off for home at the end of the day all within a period of around 30 seconds. 🙂

[nlee]

9 minutes ago, philip42h said:

... so it could easily 'miss' or average out a brief drop in voltage as someone got into the car a set off for home at the end of the day all within a period of around 30 seconds. 🙂

Sure.

[Derek.w]

nlee

Your Battery is nearly flat. Recharge it when standing for a while expect a voltage of 12.5 volts fully charged recharge it again when its drops to 12.2 volts lower than this it will start but Battery will degrade below this voltage.

[Nick72]

8 hours ago, philip42h said:

Chattering relay perhaps ... ? Just trying to think of something that might also impact the 12v system.

Sounds a stronger mechanical noise. Heavy, laboured. Vibration today from the engine through the steering wheel. I'm wondering if I've had a bad batch of E10 so I've burnt that off and refilled with E5 from Shell today. Will see at the weekend if it persists. EV driving so far this week.

[forkingabout]

On 11/9/2022 at 5:52 PM, Nick72 said:

Something is sounding rough under the bonnet though. I'll be seeing if I can flush this out over the weekend as a long trip up the north Lake District is planned.

Is it continuous or intermittent?

Could just be the D-4S system running on direct injection.

[Nick72]

On 11/10/2022 at 7:53 PM, forkingabout said:

Is it continuous or intermittent?

Could just be the D-4S system running on direct injection.

Continuous but has stopped since I filled up with E5. I'm thinking it could have been some dodgy E10.

[Nick72]

By coincidence I just saw this too so I'm putting it down to bad fuel. Sticking with E5 from now on.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1693154/e10-petrol-driver-warning-fuel-efficiency-car-issues

 

 

[nlee]

On 11/10/2022 at 6:36 PM, Derek.w said:

nlee

Your battery is nearly flat. Recharge it when standing for a while expect a voltage of 12.5 volts fully charged recharge it again when its drops to 12.2 volts lower than this it will start but battery will degrade below this voltage.

I know. I charged it two weeks ago with the Ctek and had lots of >2 hour journeys since. It doesn't seem to matter what I do, it always wants to settle to around 12.0v. The Battery monitor and the cigarette lighter plug in usb show the same voltage so I'm confident they are reading right.

[nlee]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:03 AM, philip42h said:

When we put the car into reverse we immediately add to the demand on the 12v system by switching on the rear view camera and rear parking sensors. This seems at least a plausible explanation of Nigel's observation that the converter responds by increasing the rate of charge to the auxiliary battery ... ?

As I said in a previous post, I would pay attention to this when getting home from a journey. I can confirm that the volts jump up before I select park or reverse. From what I could determine, it was steering on more or less full lock to position myself ready to reverse, that triggered the increased voltage.

[philip42h]

3 hours ago, nlee said:

steering on more or less full lock

That seems quite plausible - electrically powered steering, and, probably, extra demand to get to full lock ...

[Derek.w]

I am charging using a ctek on bike mode it takes longer to charge but I only do it one a week if I use car mode its reading is very low after just one or two days standing.

So in car mode I have to charge Battery before using car every time.

[ernieb]

1 hour ago, Derek.w said:

I am charging using a ctek on bike mode it takes longer to charge but I only do it one a week if I use car mode its reading is very low after just one or two days standing.

So in car mode I have to charge battery before using car every time.

Wow, that's a lot of charging, sounds like a faulty Battery? Unless there are some extenuating circumstances draining the Battery that require the regular external charge cycles?

[Derek.w]

Ernieb I put it down to lack of use and short journeys.

[ernieb]

9 hours ago, Derek.w said:

Ernieb I put it down to lack of use and short journeys.

OK, understand. It's a frustration one way or another.

[Nick72]

Just happened again ffs.

4 hours of driving in 2 trips at the weekend. 2 short 2 mile trips this week. Unlocked it and wing mirrors unfolded in a laboured way. Wouldn't start. Crazy messages.

Boosted with NOCO LOCO. Put the engine on and sounds very rough. Tractor noise. 

 Air con not working. It's on but nothing is coming out. Tried auto, tried fan speed. Nothing from the air con. Not in Eco either. 

 

Think there's a problem with the 12V Battery.

 

if I had wanted these shenanigans I would have stuck with the Pukegoat 😂.

 

Now my short trip has gone to the wall and I'm sitting in the car for a half hour whilst it charges the 12V or may be it isn't charging the 12V. 

Book it into the dealers? What do you think? It absolutely should have charged from the 4 hours of motorway and A road driving and two short trips shouldn't have killed the Battery. Something is very wrong here. Just not sure what.

🤷

[Nick72]

Wondering water is coming in and shorting something. Still keep seeing a small amount of water in the footwell. That's even when I check when I get out. No water. Then after rain before I get in and look in the footwell there's just a small amount of water. Several times now but I figured it probably isn't a big deal. Possible?

 

Oh, traction Battery full btw in terms of above post.

[philip42h]

At this point I feel that you are perfectly entitled to express some rude words ... 

6 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Now my short trip has gone to the wall and I'm sitting in the car for a half hour whilst it charges the 12V or may be it isn't charging the 12V

As you say there is obviously something awry with the 12v system - whether it is the auxiliary Battery, the DC/ DC converter or a truly parasitic drain / short somewhere is impossible to say. But the auxiliary Battery should charge while you are in Ready mode irrespective of whether you are moving or not. So, there's no real reason to wait rather than get on your way.

Oh, and it might be a good idea to stick it on a smart charger when you next get a chance ...

[Nick72]

4 minutes ago, philip42h said:

At this point I feel that you are perfectly entitled to express some rude words ... 

As you say there is obviously something awry with the 12v system - whether it is the auxiliary battery, the DC/ DC converter or a truly parasitic drain / short somewhere is impossible to say. But the auxiliary battery should charge while you are in Ready mode irrespective of whether you are moving or not. So, there's no real reason to wait rather than get on your way.

Oh, and it might be a good idea to stick it on a smart charger when you next get a chance ...

Thanks Philip and apologies.

You could be right. Probably are.

I think I'll try to get it into the dealer ASAP. Something is very wrong.

Am loathe to start charging the 12V.

[philip42h]

34 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

sounds very rough. Tractor noise. 

 Air con not working. It's on but nothing is coming out. Tried auto, tried fan speed. Nothing from the air con.

So, a busted heat pump compressor ??? That wouldn't fully explain the 12v issues unless it's control systems could also drain the auxiliary Battery?

I'm just guessing until someone comes up with a better idea or the dealer finds and fixes to problem.

But one [remote?] possibility is that the auxiliary isn't being charged as it should - and, loathe it or not, you might be able to help yourself out in the interim. 😉

[Nick72]

14 minutes ago, philip42h said:

So, a busted heat pump compressor ??? That wouldn't fully explain the 12v issues unless it's control systems could also drain the auxiliary battery?

I'm just guessing until someone comes up with a better idea or the dealer finds and fixes to problem.

But one [remote?] possibility is that the auxiliary isn't being charged as it should - and, loathe it or not, you might be able to help yourself out in the interim. 😉

It's weird. Air con working now. Wondering if 12V Battery is very low the air con is suspended given the fans run off the 12V I imagine?

Sitting in the car now waiting.

Will call the dealer first thing tomorrow to get it booked in. Meanwhile I may need to take the 12V Battery out and charge it as you say. Need to buy a charger. Last time I had one or needed one was on a D reg ford fiesta. Irony.

Any charger advice and is there a guide somewhere to getting at the 12V. Loathe largely because of the hassle time, cost of buying a smart charger, and because it is a company car I'm probably limited to what I should be meddling with.

 

[ernieb]

The 12v needs to be available for the heat exchanger to work correctly as it controls all the smart technology, switches, diverters and the like.

Nick, feel your pain, really do. It does sound like there is either a 12v Battery issue, the 375v to 12v inverter or maybe an earthing issue which would likely affect lots of the 12v critical circuits. You’ve obviously tried the 12v Battery terminals to check they are fully tight. There are a couple of other leads off the terminals from memory so I’d make sure they were secure.

Hope you manage to get it booked in PDQ and they find a fix.